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Thread: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

  1. #31
    *Flashaholic* LuxLuthor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by blasterman View Post
    I recall seeing Polar Express in IMAX / 3D twice. The effect was stunning and seamless with CGI characters. The film sold out for months.

    I was excited about Avatar, until I saw the trailer. Cheesy, big eyed aliens from Disney meant to draw empathy from the audience, and terran military units obviously borrowed from Peter Jackson's failed Halo project.

    Sorry to be so negative, but Cameron is obviously a bit stuck on himself. He gets a new GF with each flick he directs, so in that respect I'm willing to help. To bad we're not going to see something really cool brought to the big screen like 'Ringworld' or something. Instead we get 'Dances with Wolves' on Dagobah.
    Quote Originally Posted by blasterman View Post
    Don't count on it - still wondering if Kevin Costner is going to make an appearance in the film with a heard of space buffalo.

    While technically Cameron has always been on the ball, he's about as deep as Michael Bay.
    You are repeating yourself. We are already clear that you are absolutely certain based upon seeing trailers that it therefore totally sucks...never mind the ongoing positive reviews. The rest of us will somehow have to suffer through enjoying it despite the killjoy assessments. Thank you, drive through.

    http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/...IEWS/912119998
    http://www.variety.com/review/VE1117...goryid=31&cs=1
    http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/avatar/
    http://www.cinemablend.com/dvds/Avatar-2043.html
    http://screencrave.com/2009-12-11/avatar-movie-review/
    http://www.flixster.com/movie/avatar
    http://www.comingsoon.net/news/reviewsnews.php?id=61567
    http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.ac...nav=Groupspace
    http://www.empiremovies.com/2009/12/...-movie-review/

    OK, got my IMAX ticket for 3pm show next Friday. Big W00T

    .
    Last edited by LuxLuthor; 12-12-2009 at 04:45 AM.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    At one point in the trailer it is explained to us that the reason the humans invade the alien planet is an anti-gravitational mineral (probably the floating islands seen in the trailer are made from that mineral) that sells for 20.000.000 a kilogram. But I have a question: how do you weight an anti-gravitational rock?

  3. #33

    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    We are already clear that you are absolutely certain based upon seeing trailers that it therefore totally sucks...never mind the ongoing positive reviews.
    I'll take critical skepticism over a yet to be released film over the more annoying types that stand in line before the they've seen a film proclaming how awesome it is. The later should be reserved for giggling teen girls going to see Vampire flicks, but perhaps I'm wrong.

    The critics you've listed, including Ebert, are easily amazed types that have given films like Star Wars: Phantom Menace four stars as well.

    Cameron will likely make his loot, and while I liked 'Titanic' and hauled around an xpensive set of CAV format laserdiscs of 'The Abyss' long before DVD's came out, I just don't get why Cameron gets this kind of hype. If he's 'King of the World' then Michael Bay is god emperor of the universe. At least use a story other than one I read in 'Heavy Metal' back in 1980.

    Let me guess...the bad guys in this film will all be white, American, and many appearing in previous Cameron films. The aliens will have big eyes and be marketed at McDonalds. !Bing, bing bing, Bing!
    Last edited by blasterman; 12-12-2009 at 08:58 AM.

  4. #34

    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seb71 View Post
    But I have a question: how do you weight an anti-gravitational rock?
    Turn the scale upside down. In other words attach the scale upside down to the underside of a table. Then place anti-gravitational rock under the table right below the scale.
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  5. #35
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    Based on the trailer, the reading will be zero by using the upside down scale. The rock in the trailer (and also the floating islands) is stationary (I mean that it is not gaining altitude - it just floats). And even if it did gain altitude, you would measure the ascensional force of the rock (anti-gravity force), not it's mass.

    A better line would be: "this little gray rock sells for 20.000.000 a liter" (or some other price per unit of volume).

    Or "20.000.000 for a piece of rock that can carry 1 kg of cargo in Earth's gravity" or something like that.

    I am assuming that the mineral in question has anti-gravitational properties and it is not just a super light density mineral that floats in the air because of that (like a hot air balloon).
    Last edited by Seb71; 12-12-2009 at 09:33 AM.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seb71 View Post
    Based on the trailer, the reading will be zero by using the upside down scale. The rock in the trailer (and also the floating islands) is stationary (I mean that it is not gaining altitude - it just floats). And even if it did gain altitude, you would measure the ascensional force of the rock (anti-gravity force), not it's mass.
    Why would it be gaining altitude in a place with no gravity, when there's no gravity for it to push against? Or are you accounting for the gravity that objects themselves have? If that were the case, it would be rising EXTREMELY slow. The wind would affect it more than the gravity from the aliens & objects.

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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by bstrickler View Post
    Why would it be gaining altitude in a place with no gravity, when there's no gravity for it to push against?
    That scene is supposed to take place on the alien planet (he says: "this is why we are here"). Or maybe he is on Earth; in any case, he does not seem to be in space, in a spaceship (or if he is on a spaceship at that moment, then this spaceship has artificial gravity). When we are shown the floating rock, the character played by Giovanni Ribisi is sitting on a chair, he is not floating around (also look at the various objects in the room - everything suggest an environment subjected to a gravitational force). The only thing that is floating around in that scene is the alien rock. There is the gravity of the planet. Also the floating islands are on the alien planet not somewhere in space (so they are subject to the gravity of the planet).
    Last edited by Seb71; 12-12-2009 at 11:15 AM.

  8. #38

    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seb71 View Post
    At one point in the trailer it is explained to us that the reason the humans invade the alien planet is an anti-gravitational mineral (probably the floating islands seen in the trailer are made from that mineral) that sells for 20.000.000 a kilogram. But I have a question: how do you weight an anti-gravitational rock?
    Kilograms don't measure weight, they measure mass. If it accelerates at 1 m/s^2 when hit with a 1 N force, it has a mass of one kg.

    Of course, it's not at all clear how a rock with positive mass can be weightless in a normal gravitational field, but given that it does, the notion of selling it by the kg makes perfect sense.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    I know that kilogram is the unit for mass.

    That was my initial question: How do you know that you have x kilograms of that mineral? How do you determine the mass of a rock with anti-gravitational properties?

    I used the the term "weight" with the meaning of "determining/measuring the mass of one object" (founding how many kilograms it weights).

  10. #40

    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    Are you all really debating how to measure the mass of a purely fictional substance? This is a movie, not real life. You might as well be arguing about how long the average unicorn horn is...
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    That is correct, if Avatar is a Fantasy movie. In that case they may say that the rock is magical and be done with it. But from the trailer it seems that Avatar intends to be a regarded as a Science Fiction movie, so I expect to at least try to make some sense.

  12. #42

    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    If Star Trek can get away with "Heisenberg Compensators" and the absurdly impossible transporter and still be called science fiction, then I'm pretty sure no one else will care about a lack of specificity in how the mass of an object that is not affected by gravity is measured.
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    Heisenberg Compensators were introduced in Star Trek just because they cared about science and tried to came up with a plausible-sounding explanation.

    In Avatar it looks that they could not afford some science advisers. All the money went to CGI guys.

  14. #44

    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seb71 View Post
    I know that kilogram is the unit for mass.

    That was my initial question: How do you know that you have x kilograms of that mineral? How do you determine the mass of a rock with anti-gravitational properties?

    I used the the term "weight" with the meaning of "determining/measuring the mass of one object" (founding how many kilograms it weights).
    Aha, misunderstood your question. But the answer's essentially the same -- since mass is an inertial property, use an inertial balance. Apply a force and measure the acceleration, or apply an acceleration (e.g. with a centrifuge) and measure the force. Arrange your apparatus perpendicular to the local gravitation field, and weight/antiweight has no effect.

  15. #45

    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seb71 View Post
    Heisenberg Compensators were introduced in Star Trek just because they cared about science and tried to came up with a plausible-sounding explanation.

    In Avatar it looks that they could not afford some science advisers. All the money went to CGI guys.
    Really? Are you saying that, because Star Trek had science advisers, Heisenberg compensators are any more possible than antigravity material? Something that negates a fundamental physics principle is far less possible than antigravity (which could very well be possible). I am positive that Star Trek has far more instances of impossible science than this movie will, just by virtue of how many hours of various star trek series there are.
    You can't get a science adviser to explain how antigravity works, since we have not discovered it yet! Do you honestly expect them to adequately explain something that we currently have no working knowledge of?
    Science ficion is often simply fantasy with "sciency sounding" terms. Sometimes it is based on fact, but it is often extended beyond that into the realm of fantasy, and often contradicts what we know to be possible.
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    @Benson
    That may work, but i still find easier to just measure the volume of the rock.

    With my initial comment, I intended to show that when they made the Avatar movie they didn't care about science.

    @Mjolnir
    Of course that a Science Fiction movie (or book) uses concepts that contradicts what we know today to be possible. It would not be Science Fiction if it didn't. It would be a science documentary. The viewer/reader has to accept some conventions (like interstelar starships, time travel), otherwise the story would not be possible. I didn't ask for an explanation of how the anti-gravity works. I accept that it just works (in the movie). I asked how do they measure the mass of that anti-gravity rock.
    Last edited by Seb71; 12-16-2009 at 01:34 PM.

  17. #47
    *Flashaholic* LuxLuthor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by blasterman View Post
    I'll take critical skepticism over a yet to be released film over the more annoying types that stand in line before the they've seen a film proclaming how awesome it is. The later should be reserved for giggling teen girls going to see Vampire flicks, but perhaps I'm wrong.

    The critics you've listed, including Ebert, are easily amazed types that have given films like Star Wars: Phantom Menace four stars as well.
    Why am I not surprised that you casually dismissed all of the reviews since they all present a uniformly positive experience by people who have actually seen the movie, vs. niggling trailer analysts. I have never met one intelligent reviewer who makes a judgement of an entire movie experience based upon a montage of selected promo clips.

    There are in fact discerning and critical reviews amidst the remarkably high Rotten Tomatoes collective 90% score, some with seemingly good reasoning, but at least they are based upon seeing the entire film. Here is a mediocre review just to make you feel right as rain.

    Quote Originally Posted by blasterman View Post
    Cameron will likely make his loot, and while I liked 'Titanic' and hauled around an xpensive set of CAV format laserdiscs of 'The Abyss' long before DVD's came out, I just don't get why Cameron gets this kind of hype. If he's 'King of the World' then Michael Bay is god emperor of the universe. At least use a story other than one I read in 'Heavy Metal' back in 1980.
    Cameron's tongue-in-cheek "King of the World" proclamation after winning 11 Oscars is only taken seriously by insecure & bitter sycophants. As I said previously, but apparently 'we' are slow on the uptake...his attention is commensurate with a string of highly successful motion pictures that include Titanic, Aliens, Abyss, Terminator, Rambo, True Lies, Dark Angel, etc.

    If one takes the time to read about his uneducated, unsophistocated background, his personal insecurities, simple-minded approaches, and lack of intricate movie complexity makes perfect sense. The point is that there is plenty of room for a wide diversity of artistic expressions among movies...and most people only judge by whether or not they had an entertaining experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by blasterman View Post
    Let me guess...the bad guys in this film will all be white, American, and many appearing in previous Cameron films. The aliens will have big eyes and be marketed at McDonalds. !Bing, bing bing, Bing!
    I'm not expecting to watch a Tarantino, Coen, Scorsese, Spielberg film. I'm expecting to have an overall experience of having been entertained and immersed into the Sci-Fi world. Personally, I thought Titanic was mediocre at best in comparison to my list of greatest films...yet I did leave feeling entertained and that I got my money's worth. Also despite what I think, there is that perplexing enigma of its total sales.

    What I give Cameron credit for is that he makes sure the person who buys a ticket will feel like they have been entertained and got their $12 worth. Without any doubt, the CGI & 3-D special effects are revolutionary and set a new standard for the future of the movie industry. That alone makes it worth watching and promoting.

    One last thing...does someone have a gun to your head, forcing you to go see this movie that you love to hate so much?

  18. #48
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    I am going to see the movie (in 3D) tomorrow, I am really looking forward to it. The ticket cost me about 10$ (here in Slovakia), how much did you guys pay?
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  19. #49
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    $11 for a matinee afternoon showing in 3D IMAX

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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    Around 7 USD in my town in Romania for Avatar 3D (not IMAX) and around 5.50 USD for Avatar. Avatar IMAX 3D (not available in my town, only in Bucharest) - around 12 USD.

    First run on December 17, 22:00 UTC (December 18, 00:00 EET).

  21. #51
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    Comparable prices. I forgot to add that the ticket is for IMAX 3D. I haven't seen a IMAX 3D movie yet.
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    I think Cameron did spend effort and resources to support the behind-the-scenes "reality" of Avatar.

    I read for example that he hired a linguistics professor to invent a proper language for the Avatar aliens.

    He also waited for 15 years (or so) to film the movie because he was not satisfied with the state of technology available then.

    There are good reasons for movies to want to move on technologically, now that houses have big screens at HiDef. The 3-D technology is (still) not widely available so it may be something to draw the crowds.

    I have observed over the years that movies have lost much of their magic. It is often not a very popular suggestion to go out to see a movie; and if a movie is shown even in a house, it can be very difficult to get people to maintain focus (they start getting up, multitask, etc.). Basically if the movie is just a little-bit away from their main interests, they have trouble staying with it.

    Personally, I am very much looking forward to getting to see the movie with the snazzy new technology. For example, the cameras were manufactured specially so they are lighter. Cameron had a nifty little hand-held gadget that would show him the movie background IN REAL TIME!! In other words, as the actors run through their scenes against a blue-screen background, computers would generate the appropriate background and render a rough approximation of it. This would allow Cameron to frame the shots better and quicker.

    I have tried not to follow too much details about the movie itself, of course it is not possible to skip it entirely. I agree that the theme of colonialism and exploitation of the unspoiled wilderness is a bit old. But, it will allow for stunning landscape shots so...probably it can be appropriate for this movie.

    Cameron kept complete control. When he first pitched the idea to Fox studio executives, their first question was a bit surprising: can we get rid of the aliens' tails? He said...NO. After that, they stopped asking questions and just let him get on with it.

    Eventually, I suppose, 3-D will lose its magic, and seem more of an unnecessary novelty (or taken for granted). Not sure what movies will do at that point to keep audiences returning? Maybe that will be the end? (well, that AND the endless re-makes...).

  23. #53
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    Cameron was interviewed on the local news this morning. Visit this site and look for the interview if interested.

    http://www.ktla.com/entertainment/
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  24. #54
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    Holy Crap! Read this review from James Cameron's arch-nemesis critic, Kenneth Turan, from the LA Times which developed into a vituperous conflict after Turan's repeated trashing of Titanic.

    This is one of the most meaningful reviews from the most unlikely of sources. It describes the exact experience I was hoping for in going to see this movie tomorrow.

    Now I really can't wait.

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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjolnir View Post
    Are you all really debating how to measure the mass of a purely fictional substance? This is a movie, not real life. You might as well be arguing about how long the average unicorn horn is...
    We debate because its mental stimulation!

    You gotta keep your mind healthy somehow!

    Plus, its fun, hearing all the answers people come up with, and I find it amazing how much knowledge some people have.

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  26. #56

    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by half-watt View Post
    However, one aspect that appears to still be lacking (maybe i have just missed it???) is the degree of pathos or emotion that can be seen in actual human faces.
    That will come with time and processing power. It will require the ability to add chaotic action to all parts of the face and mimic the little tiny details that give rise to our understanding of a look. Chaos is why even the best rendition of trees blowing in the wind don't look quite real.
    Just remember it's all pixels. Fake or "real"

    Finally, I think that there is at least one reason (probably more, but for the purposes of this post one will suffice) why live plays are still popular. Plays are closer to reality, as far as the story is concerned, than Movies/TV.
    I believe my imagination is better than any CGI presentation and in a play I have to use my imagination to fill the gaps.

  27. #57
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    IMAX 3D seats reserved for Tuesday! Preferred to wait till I could reserve seats for the center of the front row of the second tier, figured I was paying enough, might as well go for optimal placement.
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  28. #58
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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by bstrickler View Post
    We debate because its mental stimulation!

    You gotta keep your mind healthy somehow!

    Plus, its fun, hearing all the answers people come up with, and I find it amazing how much knowledge some people have.

    ~Brian
    Quote Originally Posted by Mjolnir View Post
    Are you all really debating how to measure the mass of a purely fictional substance? This is a movie, not real life. You might as well be arguing about how long the average unicorn horn is...
    Plus there is no question on the length of a unicorn. Everyone knows they are 20" long. However measuring the mass of a waiting to be discovered "unobtanium" sample is indeed worth exploring.

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    Default Re: Avatar : A Movie Revolution?

    I just saw Avatar (in 3D). I would say it is a beautiful movie. Not really a Science Fiction movie, it's more a Fantasy movie, but a must see one.

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