Interesting change of heart... from LED to Incan

DHart

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I started my serious appreciation for flashlights with the Surefire Z2 Combat and E2 that I bought quite a number of years ago. I was content with that until I discovered this forum last January (in a quest for a bulb replacement for my MiniMag.) Well, of course, the latest LED lights took me for a huge ride on a wave of wonderful lights, JetBeams, Malkoff modules for the Z2, 6P clones, Solarforces, Nitecore D10, Quarks, AKOray K-106, Liteflux LF3XT and LF2XT, L-Mini IIs, MTE P7, Deerelight MC-E, Ultrafire C3, TLS heads, etc.

After all that, the other night I removed the TLS heads from my E1es and dropped in LumenFactory EO and HO lamps and an RCR123 in each and totally rediscovered the wonderful world of an E1e with EO incan lamp. One level, not incredibly bright, but what a wonderful light, beautiful tint, and plenty of useful light for sure.

So after running the quest for newest, brightest, multi-level, multi-mode, etc. I find it humorous to be returning to using and enjoying the simple E1e with a LumensFactory incan lamp.

Just wanted to share this "re-discovery". The little E1e incan is a delight with an EO or HO lamp and an RCR123!

I still love and use all the great LED lights I've got, but my little E1es are plugging along happily right along with the latest greatest LED blasters.
 

Swedpat

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DHart,

Personally I still consider (a quite bright) incan to have the most neutral tint. For example when I compare my LED-lights like Fenix TK10 and Maglite 3D with Malkoff D7 dropin (using MagCharger battery) to the MagCharger. Yes, the MagCharger has a very neutral white tint and the LEDs are close to bluish in comparison. Fenix TK20 is also nice but to the brown, or beige, side in comparison to MagCharger. The reason I have rejected the MagCharger for the 3D/Malkoff D7 is as well the uneven beam with these tremendeous artifacts and the constantly droping brightness of MagCharger. The initial brightness is lower as well. But I can understand your point of view. I know there are incans with smoother beams than Maglites...

Regards, Patric
 
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DimeRazorback

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I must admit, that lately I have been more and more interested in neutral tinted leds!

After I got my M60W, I know have a neutral Quark and love them both!

And I am also playing with my incan SF's alot!


I just purchased an M6... so :devil:
 
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Swedpat

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It's the same with me DimeRazorback!

I am waiting any day for a neutral Quark AA2 and a neutral EagleTac M2XC4!
The technical evolution goes forward, and the question is when the first true incan tinted LED will be produced...

Patric
 

DHart

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I think most of us are so conditioned over many years of incan use to view the tint of incan as the most natural. It also tends to render certain colors better and more "attractively" (a subjective assessment, for sure).

The color tones from the Lumens Factory EO/HO bulbs are so rich looking compared to the common LED tints.

I too definitely prefer my warm ("neutral") tint Quarks to my cool tint Quarks. And I don't mind giving up the very slight difference in output to gain the beautiful tones!

I agree that someday, LEDs will evolve to having the "look" of the incans we all know and love.
 

Swedpat

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Nice to hear DHart,

It will be interesting to compare especially Quark AA2 neutral to my Fenix LD20. They are very similar lights in the most respects, but with different tints.

Regards, Patric
 

M@elstrom

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I think most of us are so conditioned over many years of incan use to view the tint of incan as the most natural. It also tends to render certain colors better and more "attractively" (a subjective assessment, for sure).


Subjective only in the manner of how you perceive colours in natural sunlight, I just picked up a pre-loved Streamlight TT2L so I can have a pocketable incan/LED hybrid (whilst waiting for my elusive A2) and enjoy that incan goodness, on the topic of colour rendition... my old Dorcy Luxeon I has one of the best tints I've seen in recent years & laughably I don't know exactly why :thumbsup:
 

leukos

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It is easy to do full circles in this hobby. You'll be back to LEDs when something better than the P7 comes out...:ohgeez: Incans are still the best in my opinion for the great outdoors, and Surefire makes some of the finest!
 

Bullzeyebill

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Love my LED lights, but I have been gravitating back to incan lights. Started playing around with my SF turbo head lights, and experimenting with different SF LA's and Li Ion cells. Lots of fun and flexability there. Then started looking at my Streamlight Super Stinger with the Ultra head and realized that this is one good light, particularly with the 100% MOP reflector used in the after market Ultra head. Great smooth, far throwing light, perfect beam. Got to playing with my SL TL3 and appreciating it more, taking it for walks, and noticing how it illuminates further than my LED lights with great color rendition. Led me to find a nice FM TL3 and the wonderful H1499. I have always wanted a USL, but did not get in on the beginning, then js started finishing the USL sale, and I found a great CPF'er who let me buy his new USL, and WOW! Just awesome to me, maybe not much to hardened hot wire guys, but to me, just great. Now I am playing around with my mags, and just installed one of my Ginseng buy potted WA 1160's in my old model 4D mag. What fun, and there is more to come. And like DHart said, I have not given up on my LED lights.

Bill
 

leon2245

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Me too, & I'd p/u more of them if there were more regulated incans. Getting constant brightness as the battery drains is my favorite advantage of L.E.D.'s. It's a shame more incans could be made like that, but they are not out there. I guess we're lucky to have the A2.

D.H. who else makes small, quality, E.D.C.'able incans, aside from S.F.?
 

QtrHorse

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I think most of us are so conditioned over many years of incan use to view the tint of incan as the most natural. It also tends to render certain colors better and more "attractively" (a subjective assessment, for sure).

The majority of my lights have LED's in them but I too enjoy the color that a incan offers as well. I normally only purchase warm tint LED's but that is just not possible sometimes. The warm tint LED's look much better than the normal tints but a incan is a night and day difference between the two.

I use the LED lights the majority of the time but my two favorite lights are my C3 with a Surefire bulb and my 3x17670 1185. I need to get some of the LF drop-ins for my small one cell lights.
 

McGizmo

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I think most of us are so conditioned over many years of incan use to view the tint of incan as the most natural. It also tends to render certain colors better and more "attractively" (a subjective assessment, for sure).

The color tones from the Lumens Factory EO/HO bulbs are so rich looking compared to the common LED tints.

I too definitely prefer my warm ("neutral") tint Quarks to my cool tint Quarks. And I don't mind giving up the very slight difference in output to gain the beautiful tones!

I agree that someday, LEDs will evolve to having the "look" of the incans we all know and love.

bold added by me.

I completely understand what you are saying here but take exception to defining warm as neutral. That's downright biased!! :nana:

Shouldn't neutral be neutral; that elusive realm where it is neither warm or cold?

Color temperature and color rendering are two different things and yet they often get either credit or blame for aspects not of their doing. An incandescent source by definition has high CRI (100) and although a low CCT incandescent source does have an obvious warm tint to it, it does have a relatively full spectrum of light output and objects illuminated by it reflect colors in an understandable and recognizable fashion. A LED source may or may not have reasonable output across the spectrum and a typical white LED source has much greater blue light being generated than an incandescent and typically much much less red and yellow light being generated.

I also think that it is important to consider the possibility that flux (lumens) trumps all and especially when we are talking about illuminating targets at significant distance. To identify an object of color at any distance, that object needs a minimum amount of light that it will reflect to be bouncing off of it. In addition, its surrounding objects and landscape need to be reflecting their "difference" to allow is to perceive the contrast and enhance our ability to distinguish and identify. I suspect that the ease of perception is what biases our preferences for light sources more than anything else.

We have become attuned to perception and sight based on black body illumination. Be it the sun, fire or incandescent sources. Quite recently, man has now been given the option of using light sources that are not black body sources and in so far as these sources differ from a black body, we are aware of these differences and the differences can either enhance our perception or often diminish or impair our perceptions. The manufacturers of these new light sources are working to improve their output based on what works best in the application as well as that which is considered most favorable by the market and users. The better the understanding of the market and users, the better the manufacturers can meet our needs and wants.

My personal frustration and likely what prompted me to take a dump in this legitimate thread espousing the virtues of incandescent sources is that of the market and users confusing color temperature with color rendering ability. Something that goes hand in hand with incandescent sources but something that can be quite independent with non black body sources; LEDs. To wit, warm tinted LED's are now often accepted as alternatives to incandescent sources because they look and feel the same based on tint and yet they fall short when it comes to full spectrum perception and color rendition.

To simplify, IMHO, warm is warm and cool is cool and is based on the perceived tint when viewing a full spectrum reflective surface, AKA white wall. Actual color rendering and ultimate utility of the source of illumination goes beyond the white wall and is more a function of the overall spectrum of light output.

I believe a change of heart and going back to embracing an incan has its legitimate justification but it is important to have a good idea of just what it is that brings about this change in heart. The manufacturers are listening to us and ultimately it is in their best interest to serve us what we want. It is in our best interest to understand what we want and ask for the right things for the right reasons. :duck:
 

Black Rose

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I bought a couple Spiderfire L2 hosts and opted for the 7.4V incan drop-ins mainly to keep the costs down but also to dabble in the incan side of the addiction, er I mean hobby :devil:

I'm one of those folks that prefers cool LEDs to warm or neutral ones, but I really do like how things appear with the incan drop-ins that I do have.

These drop-ins are the $3-$4 variety you can get on DX, but they've intrigued me enough with their output to consider spending some money on better quality incan drop-ins (and the appropriate Li-Ion cells to power them hungry buggers).
 
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ElectronGuru

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I so much enjoy both, that having one or the other seems like missing half the fun. A few notes:

Popular vendors sell many neutral and near neutral LEDs and label them as 'warm'. I so like them that I don't see why true warm LEDs are even made. The yellow tint costs you even more output/efficiency and is as bad for color vision as the more efficient blue.

IMR cells are the best thing to happen to incans since before I got here. Even the standard E1e bulb runs brighter off an IMR16340. Trade in your RCR's asap. Much more oomph.

IMR cells also push out amps for more of the discharge curve than other cells. A dead simple circuit with bulb, cells, and switch can largely emulate the non dimming quality of full regulation.

Mag and SF based hotwires are so easy to build now, in some cases as easy as an LED drop in. If you've not at least seen a Mag85 in person, you owe it to yourself to try one.
 

325addict

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Incan have been my favorites for years. Then, a trainee at the company showed us his Olight M2 Warrior...
I started to dig in the world of LED lights, found this forum and bought numerous (cold) LED-lights, although I didn't like the tint.

What I like about (multi-mode) LED-lights is the ability to adapt them to the situation at hand. Have a black-out? Use the LOW-setting, and have 50 or even more hours if useful(!) light.
Need an immense output, where runtime isn't important? Try the "High"-setting of any MC-E LED-light, it simply must impress you :D

Then, I read on and on and on on this forum, and discovered the incan-section. Surefire seemed to make good incans, so why not try one? I got my first SF then, a C3 with P90 and I was hooked. From that moment, I simply only bought incans. Three C2s, an M3, an M6 (yes! Yes!) and numerous A2s and E1es have come in :whistle:
In the meantime, I was using my MagChargers as well. Their beam is absolutely not artifact-free, but it's somehow way better than the beam of a 3D....

So here I am: back to incans! Just bought lots of mod-stuff for the M6: MN bi-pin adapters, 2X 18650 holders, 3X 17670 holders, and 38(!) WA-bulbs :devil:

Timmo.
 

Phaserburn

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I find that depth perception is better with incans, not just tint/color. Try it at medium range, led vs incan, in a woodsy setting if possible. I am a fan of both light sources. Heck, I like fluoro and propane lanterns, too...

As much as I see advantages in warm led flashlights, I think the warm led is even better suited to area lights like lanterns.

:tinfoil:
 

Kestrel

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So after running the quest for newest, brightest, multi-level, multi-mode, etc. I find it humorous to be returning to using and enjoying the simple E1e with a LumensFactory incan lamp.
Just wanted to share this "re-discovery". The little E1e incan is a delight with an EO or HO lamp and an RCR123!
I still love and use all the great LED lights I've got, but my little E1es are plugging along happily right along with the latest greatest LED blasters.
Here's a little 'blast from the past', back in early May: :naughty:
3329405015_68dd5e66b2.jpg

[The E1e Room Sweeper] clearly shows how anemic the E1e really is. Boggles my mind how dim the stock E1e is compared to more contemporary lights. Funny thing, though, I still keep one E1e in stock form just for..... :thinking: ah..... I don't know why, really. ;) Yeah, it'll go to Milky once I rebound a little from all the other flashlights (and a new MacMini) I bought recently! :broke:
Just teasing you buddy! :wave: (I know that you're using your E1e with the LF lamps, not the stock incan lamp, and that incans like 3.7v from a LiIon way more than 2.5v from a CR123. ;))

BTW you could tease me about the time when I convinced you that the Malkoff M30 was the ticket for a 17670 host, then only a month later I totally changed my tune, talking all about how the M60 was best for that application instead? :huh:

Take care,
K
 
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DHart

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Kestrel... it's all fun and interesting and changing one's viewpoint now and then is a healthy and eye-opening thing!

Yes, with the LF EO lamp and an RCR123, the E1e is a hot little thing. Only one level, short runtime, but a beautiful light to use when the level, runtime, and application is right. Quite limited in many ways compared to the latest, greatest multi-level, multi-mode lights, but useful in some circumstances nonetheless!

(I do really love my "neutral" tint Quarks in 123, 14500, and 17670 formats! And use them much more than the E1e EO when I need a very dim low, multiple levels, good throw, more runtime, etc.)
 

bluepilgrim

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I just got a neutral Quark AA2. It is a thing of great beauty and beats my other lights hands down for outdoors, although for indoors it's more of a toss-up. It's warmer than I thought it would be -- like late afternoon sun, like incandescent should be. The coolest white light looks almost space alien ugly in comparison.

The best view of the foliage and ground was using two lights: the Quark and a cool white, which looks more full spectrum (maybe someone will make a two-LED light?) I'd say the neutral Quark is better than incandescent, however, except very bright incan (and that includes my 5D Mag with a xenon bulb) such as halogen work lights which produce some blues. It might be (I'm half guessing) that some higher level intensity needs to be reached before we see the shorter wavelengths from LEDs well, while the incans produce in the mid-range at low levels.
 
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