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Thread: Will LED Flashlights Ever Produce More Output than HID's

  1. #31
    *Flashaholic* LuxLuthor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will LED Flashlights Ever Produce More Output than HID's

    Quote Originally Posted by saabluster View Post
    OK thats two. But one is downright cartoonish and the other built with a much tighter cost constraint than the $2.2k Polarion. Sorry but this is not a fair fight. You must trust that if I posted what I did it was not a guess.
    As one of your biggest fans, if you know about something with such certainty to say that, why not share what it is?

    I'm sure you know a lot about cutting edge LED info....but nothing wrong with letting us use the old "trust but verify" axiom. Until something has arrived as a new technology/development, and is proven viable, it makes more sense to be skeptical.

    While there is no question that technology can blow away many seeming limitations, there are often many well intended speculations that are not examined down to the smallest details and assumptions.

  2. #32

    Default Re: Will LED Flashlights Ever Produce More Output than HID's

    Quote Originally Posted by jtr1962 View Post
    Lots of luck finding a AA cell which can do that. And if you do, it'll do it for a few minutes at best. Even 5 watts per cell is pushing things. In short, the time will come where our lights will run cool simply because the cells we use can't push them hard enough for long enough. Chemical cells may improve, but it's difficult imagining them improving by a factor of 3 or 5 in energy density and current capability.
    Flywheels or capacitors (yes yes, i know, capacitors have low energy density..)

    What will I do with a 5000lm EDC light with a spot of 5,000 lux at 1m.....

  3. #33
    Flashaholic* R@ndom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will LED Flashlights Ever Produce More Output than HID's

    Quote Originally Posted by AusKipper View Post
    Flywheels or capacitors (yes yes, i know, capacitors have low energy density..)

    What will I do with a 5000lm EDC light with a spot of 5,000 lux at 1m.....
    Give it a few more lux. A la Magplunger...

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Will LED Flashlights Ever Produce More Output than HID's

    i hope you guys really enjoy waiting on your LED serchlights.

  5. #35
    Flashaholic* Glenn7's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will LED Flashlights Ever Produce More Output than HID's

    only till December Moowhahahah!

  6. #36
    Flashaholic* JamisonM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will LED Flashlights Ever Produce More Output than HID's

    Quote Originally Posted by tab665 View Post
    i hope you guys really enjoy waiting on your LED serchlights.
    I will. Every year brings new innovations and brighter, more efficient LEDs. They're only going to get better.
    The Runtime Index | For the disparate, my DIY Pocket Clips





  7. #37
    Flashaholic The Dane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will LED Flashlights Ever Produce More Output than HID's

    Quote Originally Posted by recDNA View Post
    Is it technologically even possible?

    They are!

    As of now take a 10W HID and a 10W LED = LED wins
    And things only gets worse for the HID when power diminishes.

    Because you did not state what way then my answer is correct
    Dont go spoiling a perfectly good thread with too many facts.
    Henrik
    Creator of The Axe and the BigM*g and i'm sure more silly projects will follow

  8. #38
    Flashaholic* Juggernaut's Avatar
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    Crackup Re: Will LED Flashlights Ever Produce More Output than HID's

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dane View Post
    They are!

    As of now take a 10W HID and a 10W LED = LED wins
    And things only gets worse for the HID when power diminishes.

    Because you did not state what way then my answer is correct
    Cheater!
    “What do you mean LEDs are more efficient then Incans?”, that’s just what they want you to think! It’s a Conspiracy, Man!

  9. #39
    Flashaholic The Dane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will LED Flashlights Ever Produce More Output than HID's

    Quote Originally Posted by Juggernaut View Post
    Cheater!
    I dont make the rules, i just bend them
    Dont go spoiling a perfectly good thread with too many facts.
    Henrik
    Creator of The Axe and the BigM*g and i'm sure more silly projects will follow

  10. #40

    Default Re: Will LED Flashlights Ever Produce More Output than HID's

    Quote Originally Posted by AusKipper View Post
    Flywheels or capacitors (yes yes, i know, capacitors have low energy density..)

    What will I do with a 5000lm EDC light with a spot of 5,000 lux at 1m.....
    Sounds like a great flashlight for a boat. When on land use low or blind attackers.

  11. #41

    Default Re: Will LED Flashlights Ever Produce More Output than HID's

    Quote Originally Posted by AusKipper View Post
    What will I do with a 5000lm EDC light with a spot of 5,000 lux at 1m.....
    Set your own pants on fire when it accidentally turns on in your pocket?

  12. #42

    Default Re: Will LED Flashlights Ever Produce More Output than HID's

    Quote Originally Posted by smiley1437 View Post
    Set your own pants on fire when it accidentally turns on in your pocket?
    Well, maybe, maybe not.

    I'm not sure how it works, but if its running at 100% efficiency (which i know will never happen) then all the energy is being turned into light and none into heat so perhaps it wont set my pants on fire, then again, i think there is energy actually in the light.. so perhaps that will set my pants on fire?? i dont know the physics of it all...

  13. #43
    *Flashaholic* LuxLuthor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will LED Flashlights Ever Produce More Output than HID's

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn7 View Post
    only till December Moowhahahah!
    What is it these guys know about? I'm certainly game, and have enjoyed LED improvements. I even make money on CREE stock!

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Will LED Flashlights Ever Produce More Output than HID's

    Quote Originally Posted by LuxLuthor View Post
    What is it these guys know about? I'm certainly game, and have enjoyed LED improvements. I even make money on CREE stock!
    seems like you just killed the debate simply by asking for any information that they "know".

  15. #45
    Flashaholic* Outdoors Fanatic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will LED Flashlights Ever Produce More Output than HID's

    Quote Originally Posted by tab665 View Post
    seems like you just killed the debate simply by asking for any information that they "know".
    +1

    LOL

  16. #46
    *Flashaholic* Patriot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will LED Flashlights Ever Produce More Output than HID's

    Quote Originally Posted by saabluster View Post
    I agree with Patriot. This is the best post here. To make me laugh. I think what you meant to say was "as size and weight increases, HIDs easily beat LEDs in runtime." Seriously. That PH40 is almost four pounds! How many LED flashlights of equal size and weight can you point me to? Why then are you comparing that to LEDs? All the pessimists here will laugh at what they thought and wrote on this day come a few years from now. If you guys only knew.

    Bold emphasis by me.

    I think most here acknowledge that LED will eventually match HID but I just don't see how that's going happen quickly. You're talking about a "few" years but I don't know if you're talking about 3 or 11 years. Yes, I would agree that LED's will someday be there but if you're your trying to say it's going to happen in the next 2-3 years, I wouldn't believe you unless you shared evidence to the contrary.

    The term output implies measurements of lumen output, throw and run-time. For the answer to be a definitive yes to the thread question, we'd have to see promise of a LED that beat HID in all three areas. To the notion of that technology existing in the next 2-3 years, I say good luck. If we're talking about 6-10 years...well, I think we'd all be more flexible to the idea of the possibility.

    I'll be happy to put a PH50 up against any LED light using the same battery capacity.


  17. #47

    Default Re: Will LED Flashlights Ever Produce More Output than HID's

    Quote Originally Posted by tab665 View Post
    seems like you just killed the debate simply by asking for any information that they "know".

    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot View Post
    Bold emphasis by me.

    I think most here acknowledge that LED will eventually match HID but I just don't see how that's going happen quickly. You're talking about a "few" years but I don't know if you're talking about 3 or 11 years. Yes, I would agree that LED's will someday be there but if you're your trying to say it's going to happen in the next 2-3 years, I wouldn't believe you unless you shared evidence to the contrary.

    The term output implies measurements of lumen output, throw and run-time. For the answer to be a definitive yes to the thread question, we'd have to see promise of a LED that beat HID in all three areas. To the notion of that technology existing in the next 2-3 years, I say good luck. If we're talking about 6-10 years...well, I think we'd all be more flexible to the idea of the possibility.

    I'll be happy to put a PH50 up against any LED light using the same battery capacity.

    Never mind guys. You were right LEDs will never beat HIDs. Silly me, what was I thinking?

  18. #48
    Flashaholic* Glenn7's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will LED Flashlights Ever Produce More Output than HID's

    Quote Originally Posted by tab665 View Post
    seems like you just killed the debate simply by asking for any information that they "know".
    well you wont get a debate out of me - lets just say I cant say anything yet.

    And to keep you guys happy just like saabluster said - You were right LEDs will never beat HIDs. Silly me, what was I thinking?
    kind of the same response that I get from the "you cant beat a V8 for power" people when I tell people that my 4 cylinder car gets 300+ HP (ooops! I just did little debating - silly me )

  19. #49
    Flashaholic mknewman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will LED Flashlights Ever Produce More Output than HID's

    With these triple and quad emitter lights coming out I would expect shortly to see LED equaling 35w or so HID, 3500 lux. Expensive though.

    Still tossing around the idea of getting one of those cheap Ebay HID lights just for fun.

  20. #50
    Flashaholic* LEDninja's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will LED Flashlights Ever Produce More Output than HID's


    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn7 View Post
    only till December Moowhahahah!
    Quote Originally Posted by LuxLuthor View Post
    What is it these guys know about? I'm certainly game, and have enjoyed LED improvements. I even make money on CREE stock!
    ElektroLumens originally planned to have 100 ready by Christmas.

    Blaster, the Next Generation: Luminus Phlatlight SSR-90, 1,750 lumens, 13,000 lux
    http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sho...d.php?t=199637

    This flashlight is massive, weighing 1lb, 15oz without batteries (Most common 3D flashlights weigh around 15 oz.) .....
    Dimensions: 13.5" long, head is 2.5' diameter, body is approximately 1.5" diameter


    EDIT
    OOPS!
    Me bad, didn't do my homework before posting.
    Glenn7 already has a Firesword IV 3000+ lumens.
    Must be something else.
    Last edited by LEDninja; 09-20-2009 at 07:22 PM.

  21. #51
    Flashaholic* lctorana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will LED Flashlights Ever Produce More Output than HID's

    Oh my.

    Single mode.
    Big-power LED.
    proper heatsinking.
    Side clicky.
    Decent, non-miniature size.
    D cells.

    Can it possibly get any better than that?

  22. #52
    Flashaholic* M@elstrom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will LED Flashlights Ever Produce More Output than HID's

    I'm a big fan of both output formats... I don't see advances in either as a bad thing!

    Bring it ON!
    My modest collection HERE & 55w HID spotlight project HERE

  23. #53
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    Default Re: Will LED Flashlights Ever Produce More Output than HID's

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn7 View Post
    kind of the same response that I get from the "you cant beat a V8 for power" people when I tell people that my 4 cylinder car gets 300+ HP (ooops! I just did little debating - silly me )
    but can you tow a boat with your car? no.
    edit: dont get me wrong, ill be happy to see when leds REASONABLY surrpass. but for now, i dont see the kong as being reasonable.

  24. #54
    Flashaholic* Outdoors Fanatic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will LED Flashlights Ever Produce More Output than HID's

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn7 View Post
    well you wont get a debate out of me - lets just say I cant say anything yet.

    And to keep you guys happy just like saabluster said - You were right LEDs will never beat HIDs. Silly me, what was I thinking?
    kind of the same response that I get from the "you cant beat a V8 for power" people when I tell people that my 4 cylinder car gets 300+ HP (ooops! I just did little debating - silly me )
    With the same tweaks your 4-cylinder have you can easily get 600 HP out of a V8, so what's the point?

  25. #55
    Flashaholic* Glenn7's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will LED Flashlights Ever Produce More Output than HID's

    Quote Originally Posted by tab665 View Post
    but can you tow a boat with your car? no.
    I hope what I have said doesn't turn into sour grapes - but yes it can tow its a turbo and has the same newton meters as a V8 (maybe I should have mentioned it before) - it wins in power to weight - and yes its fair IMO to have a turbo in the equation - I would like my Saab to go like this one Hmmm maybe one day http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2IJeMgcvTs
    My point is that technology increases every year - what "we" see in our eyes from our little world as impossible or not - often we have to eat our words, just like Bill Gates said that 640K of memory is all that anybody with a computer would ever need - or that someone once said the world would only need 5 computers at most.

  26. #56
    Flashaholic* Glenn7's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will LED Flashlights Ever Produce More Output than HID's

    Quote Originally Posted by Outdoors Fanatic View Post
    With the same tweaks your 4-cylinder have you can easily get 600 HP out of a V8, so what's the point?
    OK I can see that my analogy is no good with using cars and you guys will twist anything the way you want to to split hairs - my point was meant to be technology changes all the time and IMO saying LED's cant/wont equal or better HID's in time is a little naive - again IMO

  27. #57
    Flashaholic mknewman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will LED Flashlights Ever Produce More Output than HID's

    There's nothing funnier than a Toyota Celeca funny car with 6000 hp.

  28. #58
    *Flashaholic* easilyled's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will LED Flashlights Ever Produce More Output than HID's

    I think its very dangerous to predict that LEDs will never compete with HIDs.

    If LED technology improves at the same rate that it has since I joined CPF in 2004, then I can see it happening quite easily within the next 5 years.

    Let's see now, when I joined the Pelican M6 LED was the bees' knees in being able to produce 40 lumens overall output.

    Now we can achieve over 1000 OTF lumens with a single emitter ie. the SST-90.

    So lets multiply 1000/40 * 1000 = 25000 lumens produced with a single emitter by 2014.
    Last edited by easilyled; 09-21-2009 at 07:31 AM.
    We are all flotsam and jetsam being carried by a relentless tide towards our ultimate fate!

  29. #59

    Default Re: Will LED Flashlights Ever Produce More Output than HID's

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn7 View Post
    I would like my Saab to go like this one Hmmm maybe one day
    I knew there was something I liked about you. Among others I have a 94 Saab 9000 Aero w/380HP. Built it up before I had a kid when I had money.

  30. #60
    Flashaholic* Glenn7's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will LED Flashlights Ever Produce More Output than HID's

    Quote Originally Posted by saabluster View Post
    I knew there was something I liked about you. Among others I have a 94 Saab 9000 Aero w/380HP. Built it up before I had a kid when I had money.
    Yes I knew by your cpf name you were a smart man with good taste - mine is an Aero 9000 97/98 the last 9000 they made - $2000 bucks and I can get it to 530+HP but hey I'll just get booked.
    Back on topic - I don't hate HID's - but as you know LEDs are catching and infact are matching HID's up to say 20watts now
    give me 3-4 months and I will be on here with at least a 4300 lumens OTF single led beast (I predict )

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