CHINA & FAR EAST MARKETS

I do hope I am placing this in the right forum.
I do a lot of searching for different dealers and mmanufactors of flashlights (I got the bug) and I keep finding the sites from Mainland China,
Taiwan and the such.
1) Are these site worth my time? Meaning are they selling good stuff?
2) Are there any that I should stay away from?
3) Are there any members who deal with these companies?

And what is the overall opinion of them.....I must tell you though, I really like keeping USD here in our country. I don't mind dealing with our allies, but the Far East doesn't really sit well with me.

Thank you all very much.

dealers? there are plenty of USA dealers, just check the MP.

as for manufacturers, there are indeed quite a few of them, some of them crap, and some of them high quality. Generally, the dealers in the US find the good stuff for us to use

List some of the stuff you've checked out, and we might be able to tell you if they're good or not.

scottshad said:

I don't mind dealing with our allies, but the Far East doesn't really sit well with me.

Click to expand...

What means do you use to differentiate between an ally and non-ally, and however the distinction is made, are none of the "ally" countries in the Far East?

As for the items and ordering, a huge amount of our flashaholic bread and butter originates in China. As mentioned above, lots of it is bad, really bad. On the other hand though, just with the pure volume there is also quite a lot of very good stuff as well. If it's a new market for you, and specifically Chinese made items, the best you can do is stick with the big names.

Also as mentioned above, some US dealers are quite adept at filtering out the undesirables to leave the best of the bunch. Among those would be lighthound.com, shiningbeam.com, and a forum favorite, fenix-store.com.

scottshad said:

I do hope I am placing this in the right forum.
I do a lot of searching for different dealers and mmanufactors of flashlights (I got the bug) and I keep finding the sites from Mainland China,
Taiwan and the such.
1) Are these site worth my time? Meaning are they selling good stuff?
2) Are there any that I should stay away from?
3) Are there any members who deal with these companies?

And what is the overall opinion of them.....I must tell you though, I really like keeping USD here in our country. I don't mind dealing with our allies, but the Far East doesn't really sit well with me.

Thank you all very much.

Click to expand...

There are some Chinese sites such as dealextreme.com and kaidomain.com which I have purchased from but shipping is painfully slow and quality of items is hit or miss.

Here are a few US sites to shop from:
4sevens.com
brightguy.com
lighthound.com
batteryjunction.com
zbattery.com
shiningbeam.com
fenixtactical.com (canadian)
bugoutgearusa.com
pts-flashlights.com

etc etc etc.
You can find more sites just search CPF and the CPF marketplace too.
Stick to the US sites if you want faster delivery and actual customer service. You get what you pay for applies to flashlights .....mostly.

:welcome:

scottshad said:

I don't mind dealing with our allies, but the Far East doesn't really sit well with me.

Click to expand...

Uh, Taiwan is our alley. As are S. Korea and Japan, if that makes you feel more comfortable.

China is not so much an alley, but not an enemy either...

Check out "CPF Specials" webpages/dealers. Includes discount codes for CPF members.

mmace1 said:

Uh, Taiwan is our alley. As are S. Korea and Japan, if that makes you feel more comfortable.

China is not so much an alley, but not an enemy either...

Click to expand...

Thank you for the update.

But in the end almost everything is made in China

I want to thank you all for responding to my thread.
.
when I used the word "ALLIES" I was referring to our European allies. I was not trying to make a political statement.

My intent is, if I can I will always buy from companies in the states. I like to keep USD here if possible.

My reason for the post, is that I am beginning to see a lot of these companies from China and that tells me that people are using them. I rather not, but what other people do is their choice.
So, because of seeing so many of them I was wondering if you all were buying from them, and it appears that you are not, which is good in my opinion.
Thanks
Scott

scottshad said:

Thank you for the update.

Click to expand...

Sorry, you said you wanted to "deal with our allies, not E. Asia"...like you thought all of E. Asia was nor our ally (while in fact, most of E. Asia- in terms of relative manufacturing capacity- is our ally). I think I misunderstood you.

scottshad said:

I do hope I am placing this in the right forum.
I do a lot of searching for different dealers and mmanufactors of flashlights (I got the bug) and I keep finding the sites from Mainland China,
Taiwan and the such.
1) Are these site worth my time? Meaning are they selling good stuff?
2) Are there any that I should stay away from?
3) Are there any members who deal with these companies?

And what is the overall opinion of them.....I must tell you though, I really like keeping USD here in our country. I don't mind dealing with our allies, but the Far East doesn't really sit well with me.

Thank you all very much.

Click to expand...

First, I'm not sure why this is in the LED Flashlights sub-forum, when it's meant to deal with flashlights in general.

Second, I think it's pretty offensive for you to make statements about the Far East as you have. If you have any questions by all means, but don't bring it out of context.

fatts said:

First, I'm not sure why this is in the LED Flashlights sub-forum, when it's meant to deal with flashlights in general.

Second, I think it's pretty offensive for you to make statements about the Far East as you have. If you have any questions by all means, but don't bring it out of context.

Click to expand...

Agreed on posting in the general forum, but how is it offensive to want to support manufacturing in a home country? The East is overwhelming the market (politics aside, because we let them and want the cheapest goods possible). Any purchase made from another country decreases the GDP/import ratio (and the US is way lopsided to asia in this regard). That being said, I think the question was taken way out of context. In a nutshell, the OP should have just asked what lights are made in country XYZ, and it would have been no problems. BTW, what lights talked about her so much are made in Taiwan or Japan? All I have seen is China and some customs or dropins made in the US. Even the US manufacturers likely have asian parts in them. Its the nature of the beast I suppose...

It wasn't wanting something manufactured in his/her home country, but the:

"I don't mind dealing with our allies, but the Far East doesn't really sit well with me."

-that's causing all the ruckus. Like by being an eastern nation, it must not be our alley, etc. Or at least, not as much of one as a Western (aka - white nation?). Or something, maybe it was all just a misunderstanding, but it was that part that people found offensive, not the part about wanting to buy American.

"BTW, what lights talked about her so much are made in Taiwan or Japan?"

I don't know, I was probably talking out of my hat on that one.

Its all cool. Sometimes people forget this forum is worldwide, not just in the US. Extra political correctness and tact are kinda needed to not offend someone. However, if you are from the US, what was said from an economic and political standpoint is not too far off base. Many people have this sentiment, for various reasons, and like stereotypes, not all are without merit. When everything in your country is made in the East, it starts to not sit well with people who come from a country built on hard-core manufacturing (wayyyy back in the day...) And, in the political arena, we are at odds with China over various issues. We have an economic relationship with them because we really have no choice, they are the new industrial power. However....this is for light talk only, so I guess politics should be left at the door, right, wrong, or indifferent...

BTW, if the OP wants to support US jobs, buy a Malkoff anything. Electric parts may be made overseas, but they are all put together in the US. Just trying to be supportive to both sides!

I have admit, I am prejustice to a point, I lost a relative in the Bataan Death March, and also lost several relatives in the holocaust.
I spent 28 months as grunt in Vietnam so, and spent 20 years as police officer in NY, so I do have some prejudisms, but I try to treat individuals the way I want to be treated, but when comes to American Industry, it saddens me that we are losing so much to the overseas markets.
But I surely was not trying to step on toes. I work with the homeless now and it really hurts to see a family come in, who 2 or 3 years ago had the world by the tail and were enjoying a life, and now they are living in their car because their job got sent to Mexico or China or even Vietnam.
It may show in my writings and in my atttitude, but I do love my country, and I love it dearly.....
Sorry for the rant..........

Remember a lot of E. Asians lost people to the Imperial Japanese as well. I have many S. Korean friends with grandparents/great-grandparents who remember their country being occupied by Japan, forced to speak only Japanese in public, change their names to Japanese, and have many of their high school age girls taken to be, basically, raped to death by Japanese troops. There was also a law saying a Korean could not be the boss of *anything* in Korea, the top spot at every store/school/etc. ahd to be Japanese. The Chinese were generally treated much worse. What was the prisoner or war survival rate for US troops at the hands of the Japanese? Insanely low. For Chinese prisoners of war, it was literally under .01%. If any survived, it was an accident. S. Koreans still have some dislike of Japan, and generally an endearing love of the US. In the Korean language, the name for the US means 'beautiful country'.

I can see your point of view definitely, both on the history and the current job loss. Also in buying American. I just don't like all of E. Asia seemingly being lumped together.

S. Korea/Singapore/Taiwan - all are our strong allies, and all also suffered immensely at the hands of Imperial Japan as well. Much worse than we did. I don't know why anyone would prefer buying say...German products, or even English products, instead of S. Korean/Singaporean/Taiwanese/etc.

Even Japan is now an alley. All the people that participated in the atrocities of WW2 in Japan - they're dead, it's not fair to blame the kids/grandkids for their ancestor's actions. We could blame many them for not acknowledging Japan's past atrocities properly (and I do), but that's another story...

There's othing wrong with "far east" markets in general, except that many vendors of products made in the far east do not have retail sales and repair help for purchasers in the U.S. In those cases, it is often inconvenient and relatively costly to send a product back for repair/replacement, etc.

However, that being said, it is interesting to me how often the norm of "buying American" is reinforced here and elsewhere, even where the result has been a disaster. Isolating U.S. companies from the market pressures of the world leads to weak businesses and poor value for the products they sell. We live in global markets for goods and services now. The U.S. cannot isolate its economy from these forces and still maintain a healthy economy. Buying American products even when they are inferior in value to foreign products ultimately weakens the U.S. companies and the U.S. economy as a whole. It also costs consumers more in the long run, through higher prices, subsidies and bailouts. This is what happened to the U.S. automobile industry, and now it's costing us dearly.

The U.S. has for years pushed free-market principles on the rest of the world. Now that the world is getting better at it, and has cheaper labor costs as well, we can't complain that the system is not fair. We simply have to adapt and learn how to compete in various markets or get out of those markets.

To the poster who commented that stereotypes are not all without merit: yes, they ARE all without merit. That's the very definition of a stereotype- a generalization about a group based on the perceived characteristics of one or few people. That is by definition inaccurate, and almost always motivated by bias.

mightysparrow said:

There's othing wrong with "far east" markets in general, except that many vendors of products made in the far east do not have retail sales and repair help for purchasers in the U.S. In those cases, it is often inconvenient and relatively costly to send a product back for repair/replacement, etc.

However, that being said, it is interesting to me how often the norm of "buying American" is reinforced here and elsewhere, even where the result has been a disaster. Isolating U.S. companies from the market pressures of the world leads to weak businesses and poor value for the products they sell. We live in global markets for goods and services now. The U.S. cannot isolate its economy from these forces and still maintain a healthy economy. Buying American products even when they are inferior in value to foreign products ultimately weakens the U.S. companies and the U.S. economy as a whole. It also costs consumers more in the long run, through higher prices, subsidies and bailouts. This is what happened to the U.S. automobile industry, and now it's costing us dearly.

The U.S. has for years pushed free-market principles on the rest of the world. Now that the world is getting better at it, and has cheaper labor costs as well, we can't complain that the system is not fair. We simply have to adapt and learn how to compete in various markets or get out of those markets.

To the poster who commented that stereotypes are not all without merit: yes, they ARE all without merit. That's the very definition of a stereotype- a generalization about a group based on the perceived characteristics of one or few people. That is by definition inaccurate, and almost always motivated by bias.

Click to expand...

Sorry, a better way of saying it is aspects of stereotypes have a general basis in truth for a segment of said population otherwise they wouldn't evolve as stereotypes. Doesn't mean they are right or a good thing, just saying, for example, white trash stereotypes are real for the most part, for a good portion of said sub-group...ever seen the people of Walmart emails? Doesn't make it any more right or good, but it is what it is.

mightysparrow said:

However, that being said, it is interesting to me how often the norm of "buying American" is reinforced here and elsewhere, even where the result has been a disaster.

Click to expand...

I've seen that also. I actually have no preference for buying American or otherwise, though I can understand the sentiments of those who do, even if I don't personally agree with the reasoning.

mightysparrow said:

Isolating U.S. companies from the market pressures of the world leads to weak businesses and poor value for the products they sell.

Click to expand...

Well it's OK as long as people are consistent! Aka, *always* add a 15% value premium to made in USA for a product, etc. Hypothetically, it would only be a problem if people gave significant preference to 'made in USA' for a certain period of time, then dropped that significant preference later.

Offhand- what industries do you think the 'made in USA' bias has been a significant market factor? The only one I can think of is automobiles. Sure in other products some people prefer 'made in USA'-sometimes, but I'm not certain enough people have done that consistently enough for it to be a huge factor.
[/QUOTE]

mightysparrow said:

To the poster who commented that stereotypes are not all without merit: yes, they ARE all without merit. That's the very definition of a stereotype- a generalization about a group based on the perceived characteristics of one or few people. That is by definition inaccurate, and almost always motivated by bias.

Click to expand...

This could just be symantics - as in, maybe you only call something a stereotype if it *is* in fact being used inaccurately.

I'm not though, so...I think it depends on how a automatically/broadly a stereotype is applied...as well as it's accuracy. Like for instance - a stereotype about young guys with ratty jeans, shaved heads , a certain clothing style otherwise, and an angry looking demeanor in Russia being racists who are likely to beat you if you are not Caucasian. Say if I went to Russia with a non-Caucasian friend and saw some people of the aforementioned group in an well-lit alley that was normally a great shortcut. At that point - I'd stereotype those people. I'm not 100% sure that they're racists at all, but the risk is higher given my perceptions, so I'm going to side with my instincts and avoid it. Because, I do have a general idea what people of that nature dress like in Russia (humans have an pretty good ability to detect patterns), and I know the statistics that 50%+ of more immediate African-descent people in Moscow have been attacked, and I know the US state department travel warnings on the issue.

Or Wal*Mart - If I said people who shop at Wal*Mart are white trash, that would be an inaccurate stereotype. Not everyone who shops at Wal*Mart is white trash. Probably not even most. But...I would say the stereotype that a significantly higher percentage of Wal*mart's patrons are white trash, as compared to the average popular chain grocery store in the US, is probably accurate.

So my point is it all depends on how broadly one defines a stereotype/ignores evidence to the contrary about an individual which contradicts that stereotype.

This has become a rather odd...but fun conversation to be having here.

bkumanski said:

Sorry, a better way of saying it is aspects of stereotypes have a general basis in truth for a segment of said population otherwise they wouldn't evolve as stereotypes. Doesn't mean they are right or a good thing, just saying, for example, white trash stereotypes are real for the most part, for a good portion of said sub-group...ever seen the people of Walmart emails? Doesn't make it any more right or good, but it is what it is.

Click to expand...

I disagree with you 100%. You seem to believe that stereotypes are valid, when applied to a segment of the population one is commenting about. That is false. By definition, a stereotype is inaccurate. Stereotypes are generalizations about a group that are applied to individuals in that group-- regardless of the true characteristics of those individuals.

In the example you gave about avoiding the group in the alley in Russia, you are stereotyping individuals. You might feel that you are justified in doing so to reduce your risk of physical injury, but the stereotype itself is without merit - it is not accurate.

There is another point to be made here. You can take any population and say that generalizations about one or more characteristics are true for a certain segment of that population. That is misleading. Think of all of the stereotypes we encouter relating to people of certain minority racial and religious groups. Certainly there are a few people who fit those characteristics in each group. However, the stereotypes are still inaccurate. They are not true for most of the individuals in those groups. Moreover, the same characteristics are also found in the majority group that is NOT stereotyped. So, one must ask oneself, when using a stereotype, "why am I applying a stereotype to this group in the first place that I do not apply to my own group?" The answer is prejudice-- we tend to stereotype people we think of as "the other," or not like us to begin with, thereby reinforcing our pre-existing prejudices with regard to those people, regardless of their individual characteristics.