Why do LEOs & soldiers need Blue Guns simulated maglites?

A naive, but sincere question. I don't understand the advantage of combat training with a simulated blue flashlight that costs more than a real blue flashlight.

Perhaps because the simulated light will not split your skull open?

KD7EIR said:

Perhaps because the simulated light will not split your skull open?

Click to expand...

I don't know...

"Each product is made with strong, impact-resistant polyurethane with steel reinforcement. This prevents bending and flexing while maintaining the detail, handling and balance of the actual weapon they represent."

KD7EIR said:

Perhaps because the simulated light will not split your skull open?

Click to expand...

+1

We also use blue/red guns for training new officers in weapon retention, and to break in new holsters in my dept.

Going by the picture on their homepage, it's to make it clearer that it's not a gun. Even a little bit of matte/gloss black metal is pretty intimidating. And they probably don't -really- need it, but a consistent and believable but safe training environment has a value beyond money. Also, the bright blue machete in their catalog gave me giggling fits.

Edit: I was beaten to the punch by people with far more relevant experience. Carry on and show me how slow I am to Internet

Because the real flashlight would walk away. The blue plastic hunk isn't useful for anything else so nobody bothers to help it walk away.

Sgt. LED said:

Because the real flashlight would walk away. The blue plastic hunk isn't useful for anything else so nobody bothers to help it walk away.

Click to expand...

ahh... you have a point:thumbsup:

The law of inanimate motion, also called the "Tendency to Sprout Legs":
Anything that is not firmly secured in place, regardless of size, will find its way out of the room.

Mag lites are like pennies at my station. . .they sit around, nobody knows who they belong to and nobody bothers taking them.

We have red guns, but no blue mag lites.

Lightraven said:

Mag lites are like pennies at my station. . .they sit around, nobody knows who they belong to and nobody bothers taking them.

We have red guns, but no blue mag lites.

Click to expand...

Lucky you Lightraven, if you leave a pen or wattle bottle or flashlight unattended around here it disappears.(not from my fellow officers but lots of other civilians around)

We have blue Glocks. They are Simunition guns.
We have solid plastic, red 1911s. They are for not shooting each other in training.
We have blue batons. They are cheap and blue because they are cheap.
We have various other blue things that don't function but are used in training.


In the Military blue magazines could indicate blanks for training purposes.
Blue tape around the barrel (or somewhere) could indicate a Simunition weapon.

Google.

depusm12 said:

Lucky you Lightraven, if you leave a pen or wattle bottle or flashlight unattended around here it disappears.(not from my fellow officers but lots of other civilians around)

Click to expand...

Other night filling out a form to check a prisoner in.... officer behind me didn't have a pen on his person, so I hand him mine.

He walks away with it..... look on his face when I called him out on the pen theft was priceless.... "oh, I uhhh didn't know it was yours"

Generally, our people don't take things, even the civilian employees. Only one dipstick ex-officer stands out in my mind. He tried to claim some of my issued gear that I left in a patrol vehicle and I caught him. He went dirty and got arrested for unrelated crimes years later.

Other coworkers have returned some "significant" items after I left them in a vehicle. I rewarded one with an Inova X5T.

well going to back on target, I suppose a blue flashlight for training would be for defense and offensive tactics utilizing the light as a weapon. Since these maneuvers can be rough on the light, it is simpler to have a robust tool to train with. So if someone is kinda of dumb or slow at learning, the maglite might be mistreated. I dunno though, the real maglites are so cheap anyway, a blue training version does seem rather superfluous.

In force on force training, it is recommended to remove ALL weapons (dedicated or expedient), which could be construed to include real handheld flashlights, as well as keys, magazines, ammo, and the like. In fact, there are Sim trainers who "wand" all participants to identify and remove any and all metal objects. At a minimum, there is a pat-down and everyone gets re-checked (preferably double or triple checked) if they leave the "sterile" training area. The training area must be sterile to prevent the possibility of someone drawing their backup pistol or folding knife or expedient impact weapon and using it on the "attacker".

Force on force training can be dangerous because participants will often treat it like a real fight--including me. You try to hold back for safety, but you've been trained to do something, and you do it without thinking.

I was in one scenario where a "bad guy" punched my coworker to the ground. I came out of the car swinging a foam "ASP baton" at his legs, like we are trained. The third swing caught him in the family jewels and he went down--for real.

I said, "OH $#!*, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to do that! Are you alright?"
He said (shaking it off), "No problem, you did exactly what we want. Good job. You are the only one who did this scenario right. Is everybody at your station like you?"

If that had been a blue "Mag Lite" or real Mag Lite, I doubt he would have been so enthusiastic about my performance.

Wait? Shouldn't they be using something better then a Maglite?

It's bright blue so it's easy to know that it's for training, and so it won't disappear, not that anyone would bother taking it.

The only reason they are blue is for people to know they are a solid piece of any material.

Like JustinCase said. When training with weapons (Sim guns or not), they are all painted a color other than black. We have red plastic 1911s and Glock Sim guns with a blue grip and frame. Before anyone points a training weapon at anyone they are checked by at least two people for live guns and ammunition. The staging area is also cleared. If anyone goes to their car or anywhere that isn't a part of the training, they are re-checked. This eliminates the possibility of an accidental shooting. Therefore any shooting will lead to the shooter being tried of manslaughter or homicide. They were serious on that.

When force on force training is used in any training everyone is checked for any hard object and weapons. Weapons are removed but removing hard objects eliminates injury.

We don't have any training equipment besides mats and the Sim Glocks and red 1911s. Any force is used on each other with mats or just on each other.

I haven't even seen a baton in training Which is funny because I have one :nana:

Lightraven said:

Generally, our people don't take things, even the civilian employees. Only one dipstick ex-officer stands out in my mind. He tried to claim some of my issued gear that I left in a patrol vehicle and I caught him. He went dirty and got arrested for unrelated crimes years later.

Other coworkers have returned some "significant" items after I left them in a vehicle. I rewarded one with an Inova X5T.

Click to expand...

I had a Night Ops Gladius stolen off the seat out of my patrol car one night when I responded to a domestic in progress. I know that wasn't one of my coworkers .

I don't think Mags make for a very practical weapon, or in the case of this post as a training tool. If you strike something with a Maglite enough the centrifugal force will cause the batteries to leak. It's happened to me and cleaning out the stuff wasn't fun at all. Since then I've trashed the idea to use it as a melee weapon.

A baton (or retractable baton) is more useful.

If I were given a choice between getting smacked in the family jewels by a surefire or a maglight I am going for the surefire every time. I doubt very many POs carry the beast or similar surefires and there is always the chance the PO has outfitted himself or herself with the lethally brutal minimag.