Phone in storm??

I've got a question for you folks, remember the rule about staying off the phone in a lightning storm? Well, does that include cordless and cell phones? I am now in a severe thunderstorm warning and that is something I have always wondered. Not that I need to make a call but just reminded me of my question. thanks for the forum. Doug /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

cell/cordless are safe .as long as they are not connected to a charger or outside antenna.

The reason for the warning to not use the phone during a lightning storm is because you would be handling something directly connected to the lines that could conduct the damaging strike.

Cordless phones, while not on their base are isolated, as are cell phones. If the cell tower gets hit you'll only loose your signal. If the strike follows the line going to your cordless phone base, you've probably got other problems, but your not taking a direct hit alongside the head. The energy isn't going to be converted to or modulate the rf signal into a damaging hand-held-unit-seeking powerpacked death blow.

Thanks guys,
This is what I thought, just never knew for sure. I have heard stories of people getting hit with lightning talking on the phone. Doesn't sound like a great deal of fun!! Shoes burnt right to the floor just for starters. ack!! Doug /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Cordless and cell phones being operated indoors are safe. The danger of using a corded phone during a lightning storm is due to the earpiece being connected to the transmisssion wires, and they are typically run at some point on overhead utility poles. In my case, the wires are entirely overhead from my house to the telco's switch office almost a mile away. Modern phones are supposed to be electrically isolated by a transformer, but they are so small that a lightning strike can jump the gap and still strike directly into your ear.

Doh! I typed too slow, topic is all resolved. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

If you are on a wired phone, isn't that just as bad as typing a post on CPF??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif You are connected to the power just as much as through a phone. I guess if you have a power surge protector, it would probably be okay. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

there was a story in the N.Y. (once upon a) Times about a West Point graduate who had a complete medical check out then suddenly and mysteriously died while talking on the phone during a storm. The person on the other end reported hearing only a clicking sound. The cadet's body was found slumped on the bed, the wires in the phone hand set burned, but no visible damage to the body.
I don't remember the story completely, but I think it said there were certain nerves in the ear region that if stimulated a certain way could cause the heart to stop...

(Some weapon, though, hey? Don't tell me they haven't done research on it; "...ring ring ring - hello, Saddam? -- click click click -- :dead: ..." )

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Illuminatingbikr said:
If you are on a wired phone, isn't that just as bad as typing a post on CPF??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

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That's a good thought, and I do turn off my desktop computer and switch to my notebook computer (on battery power) with wireless network card during thunderstorms.

ps: Post #100! I guess I can shut-up for a while now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sssh.gif

My phone is fiber optic street to Telco. Cable from street to ear through a Sure Protector/UPS that powers the phones (Since it's fiber at the street) and will power them in emergency.

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ps: Post #100! I guess I can shut-up for a while now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sssh.gif

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Some of us are way above that and we never shut up. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Back on topic I was wondering if the surge protector powerstrips we use (mine is an APC I think) really do adequately protect computer equipment. Any thoughts?

-Mike

I've only had one close encounter bewteen lightening and my personal electronics. My computer at the time was a UNIX system with power through a Panamax surge protector, and the strike was on the underground utility runs about 1/2 mile from my condo.

I lost one 2500 style telephone, two TV sets, an electronic control turntable, one of the record amps in my big reel-to-reel recorder, three (out of four*) Hayes 2400 baud modems, one electrical analog clock, and a number of plain old incandescent light bulbs.

Most of these items were not even turned on, the hit jumped the switches.

The computer was not damaged in any way, even though it was "ON" before the strike.

Was the Panamax responsible for protecting the computer? In my opinion, yes. The surge protector itself took a heck of a hit, and was a complete open afterwords, and much of the input side of the interior was "smoked."

The surge protector was replaced, no questions asked, by the manufacturer per their warranty.

A good surge protector can protect the equipment, a cheap one just might not ...




* The one modem that survived out of the four in service, and the one 'phone that also survived, were plugged into the Panamax, too ... the others were not ...

I've had lightning destroy computers, telephones, and light bulbs before, but none of them were on surge supressors.
The bolt hit a building about 3/4 of a block down the street, and travelled through the AC lines into ours (I lived in a different building back then), blowing up everything that was plugged in, whether it was turned on or not.

The only thing plugged in that survived at all was a silicon carbide blue LED (circa 1993) that I installed in some computer hardware, and even it got a bit crispy inside.

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Illuminatingbikr said:
If you are on a wired phone, isn't that just as bad as typing a post on CPF??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif You are connected to the power just as much as through a phone. I guess if you have a power surge protector, it would probably be okay. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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Since the keyboard is plastic wouldn't that afford some protection?

Brightnorm

Not really, Brightnorm, since you are talking about an arc that just managed to jump a mile or so air gap.

1/8 inch of plastic isn't much protection from the sort of power represented by that ...

BTW: I trust my really good surge suppressors, and don't trust the cheap ones, but even so, I don't trust them enough to disregard common sense: I'll answer that e-mail AFTER the storm. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif

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brightnorm said:
[ QUOTE ]
Illuminatingbikr said:
If you are on a wired phone, isn't that just as bad as typing a post on CPF??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif You are connected to the power just as much as through a phone. I guess if you have a power surge protector, it would probably be okay. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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Since the keyboard is plastic wouldn't that afford some protection?

Brightnorm

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I was thinking that too, but if a corded phone could shock you, I figure the materials in a keyboard would be pretty similar.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

http://neurosurgery.mgh.harvard.edu/fellows/qureshi/Lightning.htm

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif Ouch! It said she arrived at the hospital four hours later, I guess due to the storm. Can you imagine? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

yeah. and figure this;
"..(10,000 V for a person with one ear touching the telephone and some part of the body touching an 'earth'), a discharge will occur.l In telephone related injuries, depending on the distance from the strike point, currents of up to 3-5 kA are involved. A direct strike involves a current of about 30 kA.1.."

..do they mean 3,000 to 5,000 amps? at 10,000 volts, (and that's minimum) that woud be like 300 million watts...
..evidently it knocked her into next week.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

Yes, those are typical currents through a person. The actual direct lightning strike is more typically 35,000 to 40,000 amperes of current at whatever voltage it took to jump that very large gap. The 10KV threshold mentioned is simply the minimum required to turn someone into a large load resistor - the actual voltages are typically much higher ...

Remember, if lightening can jump an air gap as large as it does, a fraction of an inch more of insulation isn't going to do much for you. The only thing you can hope for is that enough of the spike finds an easier path to ground than through you.

Even in a good lightning protection system, a close or direct hit can vaporize the ground path in the first few fractions of a second and the rest of the charge still needs to be drained off - that's when an even lesser path gets zapped.

On a typical 'phone installation there is overvoltage and lightning protection built into the box on the outside of your house or apartment. Thing is, that 6 to 8 gauge wire direct to ground can only take so much abuse. An 800,000,000 watt load, even for 1/100 of a second is really a whole lot. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

On a typical plug-in surge arrestor the path to ground is the 12 or 14 gauge wire running through your walls and back to your breaker box where it picks up a larger path to ground. Most surge supressors have no chance against a direct or very close strike even if they work perfectly - the ground path they are using doesn't last long if the charge being drained is large enough. For the smaller magneticly or capacitively induced spikes in lines not directly hit, a surge supressor or lightning arrestor (like on your cable TV and 'phone lines) can take care of it. Those are usually only around 10K watts or so ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Mobile phones are safe to use in a storm, although thier operation may be unreliable. The main concern is if wired telephomne networks get struck by lightning. I remember during a violent thunderstorm during the 70's our phone tinkled and then threw itself upon the floor! There was no long term damage to the instrument, which was one of the old Type 706 Dial phones. In those days the telephone networks were almost completely mechanical. Modern electronic exchanges have a certain amount of protection, but are more suceptible to storm damage (due to static electric problems... I remember the entire Leicester phone system being knocked out of action by a massive storm-produced power surge.
Another incident happened to me back in 1992. The TV aerial downlead and the phone cable shared the same hole through the window frame. I arrived home from work one evening during a violent electrical storm.
As I climbed the stairs to the upstairs flatThere was this ear-splitting noise combined with an extremely bright flash of lightning, which for a fraction of a second formed a bubble of light around the light fitting before dissappearing with a loud pop! The noise was that loud that my ears hurt!
On completing my ascent I found that h lightning had damaged numerous items of electrical equipment and the room was filled with smoke accomp=anied by burnt pcb/transformer smells. The storm destroyed my TV, the VcR, a computer and all its bis and pieces and blew the phone socket off th wall. It was apparent that the lightning had directly struck the television aerial!
The strange thing was, although the phone socket had been blown off the wall, once I replaced it the phone woked toally ok! It's probably a testament to how good a BT phone socket is as resisting a very powerful surge of current!
Fortunately, the items damaged were covered by insurance and were replaced forthhwith!

What's the view in America regrding TV's and unplugging aerials during a storm?