Arrested: The grandfather who ‘attacked’ an RAF Apache with an £8 torch

goldenlight

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Arrested: The grandfather who 'attacked' an RAF Apache with an £8 torch

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-grandfather-attacked-RAF-Apache-8-torch.html


A lighting expert who has worked for the Queen has been arrested for shining an £8.45 torch at an RAF Apache helicopter gunship outside his home in the early hours.

Torben Merriott, 63, was woken by what felt and sounded like an 'earthquake' outside his bedroom window at 1am.

The grandfather used the torch to identify the aircraft.

He spotted one of two gunships on an exercise just '10ft above my garden' at his farmhouse in Stradbroke near Eye, Suffolk, and called the Ministry of Defence complaint line.

But instead of receiving an apology for the September 18 disturbance, Mr Merriott was visited three weeks later by police, who arrested him on suspicion of endangering an aircraft by dazzling the pilot.

Mr Merriott was taken to Bury St Edmunds police station where he was questioned and held in a cell for nine hours before being bailed pending further inquiries. The torch was also seized by officers.

He is now waiting to hear if he will be charged with endangering an aircraft, which carries a maximum two years in jail.

Mr Merriott, who owns a theatrical lighting firm, insists he did not put the aircraft at risk as he has had professional experience of lighting up flying helicopters at a Buckingham Palace event hosted by the Queen.

'Don't tell the Taliban that all they need is an eight-quid torch to bring down multi-million-pound high-tech gunships,' he said.


If the story is still there, there's a pic of a man holding what looks like a 4 D cell lantern, with a large reflector. Like the 2 gigazillion lantern I've seen at Target and other stores
 

Jay R

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NO ! Don't close it.

A news story carried in a large number of the national newspapers in England and Scotland relation to an old man arrested for using a torch. Why on earth would Empath close the thread. I though that is what this forum is FOR.

Sorry Empath but you lost me on this one. It's rare enough that a torch would make headlines in national newspapers. Why on earth would you want to close a thread in a torch forum that was opened to discus the only torch related news story to reach the papers since I can remember.

Additionally, though the Mail is indeed a tabloid, it isn't trashy. (See the Sport for that ) And this news story was also carried in the Times, Express, Sun, Scotsman, etc... as well as on major national television channels such as ITV. ( Audience of 4 million. 25% audience share.)

Seriously, you close down a thread relating to the biggest flashlight related incident in the United Kingdom in more than 20 years.
 
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cernobila

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The link worked for me, saw the man and his yellow big plastic light and read the whole article.

You would think that the modern armed forces would not be adversely affected by a beam from a flashlight bought at the local hardware/supermarket store. Perhaps we could all stock up on these lights and help bring down enemy aircraft in times of conflict.
 
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ab1ht

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Mods: please close this thread.

On what basis? :duh2:

Nothing offensive here and it's in the news. Makes for interesting discussion.

'Don't tell the Taliban that all they need is an eight-quid torch to bring down multi-million-pound high-tech gunships,' he said.

Nicely put. I can just see the pilot in front of the judge... "He shined his little light at me!"

Heck, if I hear choppers in my backyard at 1AM, I'd be looking, too.
 

JDest

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Gentlemen, I happen to work on Apaches for a living for the US Army (coming to you live from Afghanistan, though I leave for home tomorrow:)) My specialty is the Electronics and Weapons Systems on these aircraft. I can tell you from first hand experience (not in the air of course) that if either the pilot or the co-pilot gunner were somehow "dazzled" or distracted in any way, someone in the aircraft was doing something wrong. Firstly, there's virtually no chance that a military aircraft would be hovering at an altitude of "10 ft" above a civilians garden. 100 ft is a much more likely estimate. And at that range the cheap plastic light the man was using would be nowhere near enough to "dazzle" a pilot. Furthermore, since the exercise was at night, both pilots in the aircraft would be using their FLIR (Forward Looking Infrared) sight on the front of the aircraft. Without going into too much boring detail, those sights act as a nightvision for night flight. There is a single eyepiece each pilot wears on his/her helmet to use the FLIR and I can tell you, literally no amount of light (extremely bright flashlights, spotting lights, car headlights, even direct sunlight) is enough to make the FLIR display a dazzling image. So that information, coupled with the relatively weak power of the mans flashlight, leads me to believe that the RAF and the police for that area are certainly going overboard on this one, if the man's version of events is indeed true. Sorry for the long winded response, but I thought I'd try to clear a few things up.
 

ab1ht

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JDest,

First, thank you for your service. Glad you'll be coming home safely. :twothumbs

That was actually some useful input. Always nice to get an insider's perspective.

-Paul (former Seabee)
 

Jay R

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Seems to be that this chap was fed up with low flying helicopters and picked up his torch to see if he could read any identifying markings so's he knew which one to report in the morning. I also suspect that the "10 foot" and bottom of the garden claims are somewhat exaggerated.
I think it's fair enough that he went outside to look. I also think it's fair enough that the RAF complained to the police though I suspect that they wouldn't even have noticed it if he hadn't complained.
Seems from other articles that this has all come to light ( if you'll pardon the pun ) from the Police shipping him off in a van, holding him for 9 hours and searching his house for the 'evidence' which would appear to the layman, and certainly him, to be a bit heavy handed but is what the police are supposed to do.
I would think that he didn't really want it to be such a fuss, the RAF probably didn't want to complain to the police and the police probably didn't want to have to ship this old man off to the clink and search his house.
Hopefully everyone will just let it drop as I can't see anyone coming out of this looking good. I suspect that if it ends up in court and the RAF can't produce a tape of the pilot saying "Blimey, That's bright ! " they are going to come out looking worse.

Speaking personally, I am also guilty of the same thing. Occasionally I've been out in the garden at night when helicopter passed over at a few hundred feet and I've shone a Fenix, or whatever I had on me at the time, up at it for no particular reason other than 'just to see'. I can't see how a even a 700 lumen DX light shone from 200 feet below at the bottom of the aircraft is going to bother anyone much but perhaps I'll think twice next time.
 

gsxrac

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NO ! Don't close it.

A news story carried in a large number of the national newspapers in England and Scotland relation to an old man arrested for using a torch. Why on earth would Empath close the thread. I though that is what this forum is FOR.

Sorry Empath but you lost me on this one. It's rare enough that a torch would make headlines in national newspapers. Why on earth would you want to close a thread in a torch forum that was opened to discus the only torch related news story to reach the papers since I can remember.

Additionally, though the Mail is indeed a tabloid, it isn't trashy. (See the Sport for that ) And this news story was also carried in the Times, Express, Sun, Scotsman, etc... as well as on major national television channels such as ITV. ( Audience of 4 million. 25% audience share.)

Seriously, you close down a thread relating to the biggest flashlight related incident in the United Kingdom in more than 20 years.
I was wondering the same thing! And I dont see how the last thread was breaking ANY rules. Its just not like Empath to do that. Normally the mods are pretty good about sighting which rule was broken in conjunction with why they are closing a thread.

But we better stop talking about why a thread was closed in open forum because I think I remember that being in violation to the rules also :sssh:

Gentlemen, I happen to work on Apaches for a living for the US Army (coming to you live from Afghanistan, though I leave for home tomorrow:)) My specialty is the Electronics and Weapons Systems on these aircraft. I can tell you from first hand experience (not in the air of course) that if either the pilot or the co-pilot gunner were somehow "dazzled" or distracted in any way, someone in the aircraft was doing something wrong. Firstly, there's virtually no chance that a military aircraft would be hovering at an altitude of "10 ft" above a civilians garden. 100 ft is a much more likely estimate. And at that range the cheap plastic light the man was using would be nowhere near enough to "dazzle" a pilot. Furthermore, since the exercise was at night, both pilots in the aircraft would be using their FLIR (Forward Looking Infrared) sight on the front of the aircraft. Without going into too much boring detail, those sights act as a nightvision for night flight. There is a single eyepiece each pilot wears on his/her helmet to use the FLIR and I can tell you, literally no amount of light (extremely bright flashlights, spotting lights, car headlights, even direct sunlight) is enough to make the FLIR display a dazzling image. So that information, coupled with the relatively weak power of the mans flashlight, leads me to believe that the RAF and the police for that area are certainly going overboard on this one, if the man's version of events is indeed true. Sorry for the long winded response, but I thought I'd try to clear a few things up.

Thank you VERY much for that insight. I kind of figured that but wasnt a hundred percent sure. And I also agree the 10ft. was probably not even close to how high they actually were. It still raises the question why they would even be doing such an exercise at this hour in a residential area. Plus why didnt any of the guys neighbors hear the thing? My theory is that they pissed the guy off by arresting him (And rightfully so, i'd be pissed off too!) And to get back at them he over embellished his story to the news to throw out some bad publicity.

On a side note we gotta get this guy onto CPF and get him a REAL light!
 

Jay R

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But we better stop talking about why a thread was closed in open forum because I think I remember that being in violation to the rules also :sssh:

I checked just in case. We can't complain that they enforce the rules but it didn't mention anything about querying why a thread was closed. (Unless I suppose, it was because someone broke the rules !) Even then, I wouldn't have posted it in public except Goldenlight posted to close the thread and I didn't want a passing moderator to do so before I had a chance to ask why.


I agree that the chap needs to get something a bit better than the cheapo plastic lump he is pictured with. ( Though if the police confiscated the light, is it the same one. ) You'd think that, what with owning a lighting company, he'd have something better !
 

lightplay22

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Maybe the RAF crew knew that grandpa's light was better than what they have so they came up with this elaborate scheme just so they could end up with his light! Sounds like a plan to me.
 

alpg88

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oh crap, there is got to be a limit for authorities stupidity, if a combat pilot gets disoriented from a cheap light, he doesn't deserve his wings.
there are so many things that flash in pilots eye, sun, sun reflection on water, reflection on snow, that is just everyday occurrence, and in combat, there are a lot more distractions, my uncle was a chopper pilot, served in afghan in the 80's, my grandfather was a bomber pilot in ww2. if someone shined light or even laser on their aircraft, I'm 100% sure it would not disorient them.
 

Patriot

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Gentlemen, I happen to work on Apaches for a living for the US Army (coming to you live from Afghanistan, though I leave for home tomorrow:)) My specialty is the Electronics and Weapons Systems on these aircraft. I can tell you from first hand experience (not in the air of course) that if either the pilot or the co-pilot gunner were somehow "dazzled" or distracted in any way, someone in the aircraft was doing something wrong. Firstly, there's virtually no chance that a military aircraft would be hovering at an altitude of "10 ft" above a civilians garden. 100 ft is a much more likely estimate. And at that range the cheap plastic light the man was using would be nowhere near enough to "dazzle" a pilot. Furthermore, since the exercise was at night, both pilots in the aircraft would be using their FLIR (Forward Looking Infrared) sight on the front of the aircraft. Without going into too much boring detail, those sights act as a nightvision for night flight. There is a single eyepiece each pilot wears on his/her helmet to use the FLIR and I can tell you, literally no amount of light (extremely bright flashlights, spotting lights, car headlights, even direct sunlight) is enough to make the FLIR display a dazzling image. So that information, coupled with the relatively weak power of the mans flashlight, leads me to believe that the RAF and the police for that area are certainly going overboard on this one, if the man's version of events is indeed true. Sorry for the long winded response, but I thought I'd try to clear a few things up.



Congratulations on your home coming and thanks for the practical insight. Thank you very much for your service! :twothumbs :goodjob:





This story seems fairly typical of a British police state response, which is historically oppressive to say the least. Britain is a country which has removed from the law abiding public any practical means of self defense against illegally armed criminals. All it takes is a quick review of the firearm, knife, or pepper spray laws to build a case that this isn't a government who's interested in personal freedoms, including the most basic of all liberties, to protect one's own life. Now it seems that simply shining a flashlight in the direction of something frightening the hell out of you is illegal but this really shouldn't come as any surprise. If government can regulate the ownership of guns, sharp things, clubs, defense sprays, tasers and laser pointers, it's well within their "right" by power, to regulate the use and ownership of torches. Not only is it Parliament's right but if it's to do its job with historical accordance, they'll immediately enact a maximum torch reflector dimension of 75mm and a output cap of 999 lumens, with the option to reduce maximum output and regulate carry flashlights as needed. The enforcement for this could be paid for through a headlamp tax on automobiles which would require a special license to operate.

In the 12th century the English concealed swords in thatch roofs, in the 21st century they'll shroud 12 volt flashlights in their sheds and basements.


Best of luck to this poor chap who was arrested.
 
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*Dusty*

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Congratulations on your home coming and thanks for the practical insight. Thank you very much for your service! :twothumbs :goodjob:





This story seems fairly typical of a British police state response, which is historically oppressive to say the least. Britain is a country which has removed from the law abiding public any practical means of self defense against illegally armed criminals. All it takes is a quick review of the firearm, knife, or pepper spray laws to build a case that this isn't a government who's interested in personal freedoms, including the most basic of all liberties, to protect one's own life. Now it seems that simply shining a flashlight in the direction of something frightening the hell out of you is illegal but this really shouldn't come as any surprise. If government can regulate the ownership of guns, sharp things, clubs, defense sprays, tasers and laser pointers, it's well within their "right" by power, to regulate the use and ownership of torches. Not only is it Parliament's right but if it's to do its job with historical accordance, they'll immediately enact a maximum torch reflector dimension of 75mm and a output cap of 999 lumens, with the option to reduce maximum output and regulate carry flashlights as needed. The enforcement for this could be paid for through a headlamp tax on automobiles which would require a special license to operate.

In the 12th century the English concealed swords in thatch roofs, in the 21st century they'll shroud 12 volt flashlights in their sheds and basements.


Best of luck to this poor chap who was arrested.


Bang on the money, this story is absurd and ridiculous. I've lived in Northern Ireland all my life, military helis are part and parcel of daily life and grind. I've never seen one at 10ft, 100 feet yes, lots of times, even over residential areas, and yes at night too.I also know to be a military helicopter pilot, you have to be practically related to royalty to fly an Apache.

The ridiculous laws governing guns and knives and general self defense are more than oppressive, they are actively encouraging criminals who know they can break in and terrorise people with no fear of recrimination.

Don't get me started on the taxes, price of fuel currently £1.06/ $1.80 per LITRE not gallon, 20 cigs over £5/$8.50 (its been a year and 6 months since i quit so I may be out slightly, but you can guarantee they don't get cheaper)

[/Rant]

Long and short of it, don't move to the UK, it's a dump. A badly run dump. If it were a private company the board of directors would be sacked.
 

Jay R

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Just seen on the BBC. Police confirmed that he won't be charged with anything. I guess nobody wanted the bad publicity.

Could it be coincidence that another news story was reporting on a RAF helicopter that crashed killing 2. A few mins before, the pilot and crew were laughing about hovering 5 feet over a taxi. Looks like that 10 feet claim may not be so off after all.
 

Empath

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NO ! Don't close it.

A news story carried in a large number of the national newspapers in England and Scotland relation to an old man arrested for using a torch. Why on earth would Empath close the thread. I though that is what this forum is FOR.

Sorry Empath but you lost me on this one. It's rare enough that a torch would make headlines in national newspapers. Why on earth would you want to close a thread in a torch forum that was opened to discus the only torch related news story to reach the papers since I can remember.

Additionally, though the Mail is indeed a tabloid, it isn't trashy. (See the Sport for that ) And this news story was also carried in the Times, Express, Sun, Scotsman, etc... as well as on major national television channels such as ITV. ( Audience of 4 million. 25% audience share.)

Seriously, you close down a thread relating to the biggest flashlight related incident in the United Kingdom in more than 20 years.

Generally, we discourage the discussion of moderation events within the general postings. The recommended manner of inquiry or input is through PM, email, or through the Underground.

The thread that was closed was in the General Flashlight Discussion forum. Had it been created in the Cafe, it likely would have survived, even though it's a tabloid article, which may or may not be true.

Your claim of it being news in all those other papers, TV and such doesn't seem to be reflected in a Google news search. All I found was a single source of the news, and that was the Daily Mail. A web search does yield many more links, but it appears most of them are forums and blogs, all referencing that same Daily News article.

Regardless, with it here in the Cafe, enjoy. Since it is a tabloid story, like most tabloid stories, it may or may not have validity. As a "what if", rants and complaints against the story seems like overreaction.
 
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