9,000 Lumens Worth of Carley Bulbs

Ginseng

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What does 9,000 lumens feel like? Here's what it feels like.

fbe1076c.jpg


These are the bulbs from the Carley group buy. 41 bulbs in total. Most will be at least slightly overdriven. Only the 762 and 999 will be slightly underdriven. The total spec output is 8,584. I just couldn't resist fondling this passel of luxworthiness /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif The #1940 reflectors are at the top of the picture.

Anyway, they're going out tomorrow or Monday by USPS so you should see them in about three business days. Maybe four if you live on the left coast.

Look for a thread a little later tonight with a few beamshotz and output comparisons. I'm as giddy as a schoolgirl! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

Wilkey
 

PaulW

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Re: What Does 9,000 Lumens Feel like?

Wilkey,

Looks like you're going to have some fun over the weekend. Great. I look forward to getting a package from you. I'm glad I live close to you.

But please, when you fondle those packages be gentle. Don't want to any luxes to escape and fall all over the floor. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Those reflectors look really inviting. I'm still wondering how I'm going to bore them out without a drill press. Anyone have ideas?

Paul
 

soloco

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Re: What Does 9,000 Lumens Feel like?

Use a circular 2" diameter jig and a good 3/4" bit. That should do the job. That is of course if you want to use the Maglite lamp assembly. Otherwise the bulb normally does fit in the Carley REAM. It's just too deep. The other option besides boring out the middle would be lopping a half inch or so off the base. But that's a LOT harder to do because it's round. You could probably sand it down and keep it flat, but that might take a while to sand that much aluminum.

check out my latest spreadsheet for carley lamp comparisons.
http://www.jerrykco.com/lights/battery%20comparison.xls
 

Ginseng

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Re: What Does 9,000 Lumens Feel like?

Paul,

Looking at these reflectors, I notice several things.

1. If you bore them out to accomodate the Mag lamp pedestal, the set screw functionality will be eliminated.
2. The reflector seems to have a different profile from the Mag ones. My reflected image in it looks different. I hope this translates to better collimation.
3. The raw surface as finished is actually pretty damn good. No swirl marks at all, just smooth.

I think I will use my diamond grinding bits and my Dremel to ream out the ream. I wouldn't go through the face of the reflector...I'm hoping that stopping just short of the surface will preserve more reflector and minimize the black hole effect.

I'll be back this weekend with some observations.

Wilkey
 

PaulW

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Re: What Does 9,000 Lumens Feel like?

Guys -- Well, that gives me some ideas. And it tells me that there's more to be considered than just boring out the reflector. I'll have to see it and play with it. Perhaps later someone will post pictures of how he did it.

Soloco -- an interesting spread sheet. You've been doing some work. I understand the columns with the "v" suffix (voltage). But what is the I suffix? Can't be current. It doesn't look right for capacity. You have me baffled.

Also, what is a circular 2" diameter jig? Can I buy it at a hardware store? Will it be cheaper than a drill press?

Paul
 

PaulW

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Re: What Does 9,000 Lumens Feel like?

Soloco,

I figured it out. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif The I is really an l. Stands for length. Right?

I also discovered the other sheets. Very nice.

Thanks for sharing your work with us.

Paul
 

soloco

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Re: What Does 9,000 Lumens Feel like?

I would just make your own jig. Take a square board about 4"x4" and cut out a 2" circle in the middle. Then cut the circle in half. now you have a simple 2" jig to hold the reflector in place while you lower your drill. at least, that's how I would do it if i had a drill press.

yeah. the l is an L. just lower cased. the cp^2/W is my way of judging the bulbs. cp squared versus power weights the brightness more than just efficiency.
 

PaulW

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Re: What Does 9,000 Lumens Feel like?

Ah, now I understand. But, you see, I don't have a drill press. A tougher problem, eh?

I like the CP^2 / W entry. Lots of food for thought.
 

Otokoyama

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Re: What Does 9,000 Lumens Feel like?

[ QUOTE ]
1. If you bore them out to accomodate the Mag lamp pedestal, the set screw functionality will be eliminated.

[/ QUOTE ]
The Mag cam is .827". The 1940 backside is 1". There's enough room to ream out the back and still retain the set screw.

[ QUOTE ]
3. The raw surface as finished is actually pretty damn good. No swirl marks at all, just smooth.

[/ QUOTE ]
With another Carley reflector, using some Flitz improved its reflectivity.
 

Ginseng

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Re: What Does 9,000 Lumens Feel like?

Ok,

I have been playing with my bulbs and reflector and I have learned some things both nice and not so nice.

Nice:
The 805 bulb in my 3D is at least as bright as the KPR112 on 3x123. This means a bright, looooong runtime on three alkies.
Not Nice:
The 805 does not take to overdriving. 4Cs flashed my only one.

Nice:
The Carley 1940 reflector comes nicely polished and with plenty of stub to mess around with. Using a tool steel carving bit and my Dremel, I was able to ream out the back to accomodate the Mag lamp pedestal without having to enlarge the hole directly around the bulb. Since the Carley bulb capsules are slimmer than most, I thought that keeping as much reflector as possible would shrink the Mag hole. Now it fits and works and focuses in my Mag.
Not Nice:
The reflectivity of the aluminum surface is visibly inferior to the Mag reflector's surface. Vacuum deposited aluminum just makes for a very smooth, very highly reflective surface. The additional surface area around the lamp base does not help control the dark spot. Furthermore, I saw no improvement in the tightness or shape of the hotspot with the 1940.

Nice:
Some of the Carley bulbs throw a very nice, tight spot. The 805 and 717 spot nicely.
Not Nice:
The 999 is not one of these. The capsule and filament are HUGE and results in a loose hotspot. Looks like one of those 14.4V and 18V bulbs for the DeWalt tool lights.

Nice:
Having multiples of several types of bulbs allowed me to do some variability checking for spot quality, filament alignment, etc. for curiosity's sake.
Not Nice:
There seems to be a not-insignificant degree of variation in the quality of the filament orientation in all bulbs. For example, the 717's show this phenomenon to a high degree because the front lens projects the filament image. Some are centered right on the center spot and some are well off the center.

Not Nice:
The Mag lamp pedestal is itself a very significant source of orientation and alignment problems. The same bulb inserted several different times resulted in several different spot patterns. The 2Cs I'm working with are not the newest revision with the tigerhead emboss on the rubber switch cover so the new ones may be better. I was able to shift the lamp pedestal 1 mm or more from side to side. Also, the battery positive contact on the interior of the lamp pedestal is a coil spring instead of a flat plunger. This results in some bulb movement. Of course the PR retaining collar is supposed to clamp the PR flange against the pedestal, but I found this was not always reproducible.

Wilkey
 

PaulW

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Re: What Does 9,000 Lumens Feel like?

Wilkey,

Thanks for the report. Glad to hear about the brightness of the 805. Sorry to hear about its demise.

More Carley reflector information -- that's useful. I'm not surprised to hear that beamshape is not improved using it. I have always been impressed with the mag's throw. I must admit that what I'm looking for in the Carley is the ability to handle higher wattages.

[ QUOTE ]
Ginseng said:

b]Not Nice:[/b]
The Mag lamp pedestal is itself a very significant source of orientation and alignment problems. The same bulb inserted several different times resulted in several different spot patterns.



[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I have observed this, too. There is an upside, however. I have discovered that I can diddle with (1) the orientation of the bulb in the pedestal and (2) with the orientation of the reflector with respect to the bezel. Rotation of either affects the beam. With enough diddling, I can improve the beam a lot. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif And the adjustment holds until the next time I unscrew either of them.

Paul
 

Ginseng

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Re: What Does 9,000 Lumens Feel like?

As far as making the Carley reflector fit and work in the Mag head, that is easy to do now that I've done it. Of course, it's not elegant like having it custom milled, but then I'm the guy who made a light of of a vegetable. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Here's my two cents:

1. If you have 25 minutes, a Dremel and a tool steel carving bit, you can ream the Carley 1940 stub out so that it fits over the pedestal. Once this is clear, the reflector really does just drop into the front bezel ring and seat.

2. Once this is done, focusing is achieved by screwing down the bezel until the desired focus point is achieved. Since the cam action is bypassed, it is one way up and down, no cycling focus. The mystique of cam focusing has been dispelled. Without the cam action, it doesn't mean you can't focus, you can still focus as tight or as diffuse as you wish, you just can't cycle focus. So for my money, leave out the angled stub and don't worry about it...it's a non-issue. However, this only works if you do not ream out the hole to fit around the lamp holder. It must stay the size it came so it can push down on the PR collar and effect focus.

3. The thickness of the lip around the edge of the wide end of the reflector keeps you from screwing the face cap or outer bezel ring down entirely. Still, it screws down enough to engage and be secure. A few more minutes with the Dremel would remedy this situation. It does not engage the rubber O-ring though, so no splashy splashy.

4. The magic (and downfall) of the Mag reflector is in its profile. It throws a razor thin beam given a. a point source such as a very small lamp filament and b. perfect centering of the light source. The larger the bulb and filament, the more diffuse the spot. The more off center the filament, the more lobe-shaped the spot as you focus down and the more "curly-cue" rather than circular spot as you get to maximum focus.

5. The reason that sputtering or introducing some diffuse scatter into the beam improves the situation so much is that it masks the direct one-to-one focusing of the filament and capsule features that result in artifacts. The $64 question is how to achieve this with a. minimal light loss and b. the desired degree of beam broadening or diffusion. Otokoyama has done the best recent work exploring this situation.

I'm still learning...but at least the lessons are not all that costly.

Wilkey
 

PaulW

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Re: What Does 9,000 Lumens Feel like?

Well, I guess if I want to do this project I'd better buy a Dremel. But I'll also want the "tool steel carving bit." Do you have a product number or some way I can identify it at the store?
 

Ginseng

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Re: What Does 9,000 Lumens Feel like?

Paul,

I'll post that info in the morning. I am dead tired right now. Check your PMs BTW.

wilkey
 

Ginseng

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Re: What Does 9,000 Lumens Feel like?

All the bulbs are packed and ready to go out on Monday. You should all have your merchandise in hand from mid-week on.

Paul,
The bit that works really well for taking off aluminum is "High Speed Cutter" #117 (rounded cone). The #115 (cylinder) should be even better because it has a flat end cut instead of the rounded cut like the #117 like I used. I'll try to post pictures tomorrow.

Wilkey
 

Illuminated

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Re: What Does 9,000 Lumens Feel like?

I gotta throw in 2-cents worth here...

Given the sensitive nature of the Mag lamp/reflector alignment dilemma, one source of problems for me has been head wobble. The O-ring provides some resistance, but looseness of the threads still allows side-to-side movement of the head, thus affecting the beam.

Solution:

Wrap the body threads with plumber's Teflon tape. Takes up the play and still allows for smooth rotation. Keeps head-to-body alignment much better.

Only downside seems to be that it'll have to be replaced once in a while.

John
 

Ginseng

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Re: What Does 9,000 Lumens Feel like?

John,

That doesn't sound like a downside at all. Gonna try it.

Wilkey
 

Ginseng

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Re: What Does 9,000 Lumens Feel like?

Here's a shot of the backside of my reamed out 1940. The reflections make the surface seem rougher than it really is, but it's not machined smooth that's for sure. You'll see that I opened the rear portion of the hole out to about 0.75" but I think I would leave it closer to 0.65" the next time. I also did not open out the bulb hole. It's pretty close to the stock Carley bore of 0.375" versus the Mag hole which is probably closer to 0.5" or more. It is the border of the narrow bulb hole that pushes down on the Mag pedestal allowing you to focus. Of course, the narrow hole means you won't be able to use this reflector with 99% of the mass market bulbs out there. For example, the KPR112 doesn't fit through it.

fbde1359.jpg


Wilkey
 

PaulW

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Re: What Does 9,000 Lumens Feel like?

Wilkey,

Thanks for the great reflector photo. That answers a lot of questions. Only one remains for me. That is, how do you focus?

In para 2 above (06/21/03 @ 10:47 PM) you say "focusing is achieved by screwing down the bezel until the desired focus point is achieved . . . this only works if you do not ream out the hole to fit around the lamp holder. It must stay the size it came so it can push down on the PR collar and effect focus." Referring to the parts list here, does it mean that the PR base retaining ring (E1) is not used and that the reflector presses against the collar (E2) or that it presses against the lip on the bulb? Or do I have this completely screwed up?

You see, my problem is that if the reflector pushes against the collar, the bulb will move with it. Yet what we want is movement of the reflector with respect to the bulb. I could understand it if the bulb remains stationary while the reflector and head are being screwed down. It would act like the Space Needle II then.

Can you help straighten out my thoughts?

Paul
 

Ginseng

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Re: What Does 9,000 Lumens Feel like?

Ok,

I understand your confusion and part of the problem is my imprecise description. What I mean is the following:

Part "E", what I call the PR base retaining ring and what Mag calls the "Lamp Retainer, part 200-057" is still used to lock down the bulb. The back of the reflector pushes down on this, thus depressing the entire floating lamp assembly "E" and the plunger part of "C". Of course, the reflector can only push down on this part if it is not reamed out so that "E" can pass through the hole.

The magic is this, that the back of the 1940 is hollowed out enough so that the bulb capsule and filament can pass through and beyond the focal point at maximum insertion. Thus, as you screw down the bezel, you will see the spot start to contract as the filament moves from a spot behind the focal point towards the focal point. At this point, the back of the reflector still will not have come into contact with "E". As you keep screwing down, the filament will eventually sit precisely at the focal point. For the #1940, this is a mere 0.2" from what looks like the centerline of the setscrew. This means the filament only needs to protrude very slightly into the reflector cavity to be at optimal focus. If you screw down further, you will begin to defocus since the filament will have passed in front of the focal point. Shortly therafter, the reflector will contact "E" and all focusing action will cease since the filament-focal point distance will then be fixed.

I hope that helps. I don't think I can explain it any better.

Wilkey
 
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