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Thread: Removing the Clip

  1. #1
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    arewethereyetdad's Avatar
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    Exclamation Removing the Clip

    As a die-hard McGizmo afficiando, I truly believe one can never have too many. However, I like 'em clipless. Just never been a fan of clips. Even though McGizmo's clip design is the best of any light, I just can't have 'em.

    Therefore, I usually remove them. Now, as you all know, the McGizmo Ti clips are attached to the packs by two round head Ti screws. If you strip 'em, you've got some work ahead of you. I speak from experience. Because they're situated side by side, and because they're round-headed, they are virtually impossible to remove, or even grab onto for that matter. So, if you're like me and want to remove the clip, here's what you need to do.

    First, try to unscrew them the traditional way. I am pretty sure the bit size is 1/16. UPDATE: Use Thorp 1/16" (See Don's note, below, post #3). If you strip them, which is entirely possible, you will need to do the following: get a small square file and carefully file flat surfaces into opposite sides of each screw. Be extra careful to not let the file touch the body itself - just file the screw heads against the clip (I didn't care if I ruined the screws or the clip, of course). Once you have two filed flats grooved into each screw you can then get a grip, so to speak, on the screw head with your small pliers and slowly turn each one out. It definitely works, but it takes time and patience.

    The great thing about all this is that, although you max out a pair of screws and a clip, you keep the body perfect so that, if you lose all semblance of sanity down the road and actually want to add a clip, you still can.

    Just a little tidbit from a McGizmo geek. Thanks for reading.
    Last edited by arewethereyetdad; 10-30-2009 at 07:53 PM.

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    Default Re: Removing the Clip

    Seems like an awful lotta work to make the light less useful!

    john

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    *Flashaholic* McGizmo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Removing the Clip

    There have been a number of threads now on the utility of the Thorp 1/16" hex drivers and they are almost a must for these Ti clip screws. I am sorry that typical 1/16" hex wrenches don't cut the mustard here but that's just the way it is.
    Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) "Nature can be cruel- but we don't have to be."~ Temple Grandin

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    Default Re: Removing the Clip

    Quote Originally Posted by McGizmo View Post
    There have been a number of threads now on the utility of the Thorp 1/16" hex drivers and they are almost a must for these Ti clip screws. I am sorry that typical 1/16" hex wrenches don't cut the mustard here but that's just the way it is.
    Ah! Therein lies my problem. Thanks Don! That sounds a whole lot easier than the way I was doing it. Well, at least there's a solution for those who "screw" up like I did.

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    Default Re: Removing the Clip

    Quote Originally Posted by McGizmo View Post
    There have been a number of threads now on the utility of the Thorp 1/16" hex drivers and they are almost a must for these Ti clip screws. I am sorry that typical 1/16" hex wrenches don't cut the mustard here but that's just the way it is.
    Will also have to remember that, after my first attempt.
    Finning does help dissipate heat. This is why the fins are removed before cooking fish. Otherwise it will throw off the heat and not reach the proper cooking temperature. --Duglite

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    Flashaholic* Henk_Lu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Removing the Clip

    Reading this reminded me checking if the screws on my BB Haiku were tight, because the clip wasn't well aligned.

    Silly me...
    My way : From Maglite and drop-ins over Fenix & Co to the real things - Customs and Titaniums!

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    Default Re: Removing the Clip

    I bought the Thorp 1/16" driver off of Ebay - what a nice piece of equipment.

    I like my clips though - gives me an anchor point for a lanyard (around the light and through).


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    Default Re: Removing the Clip

    Quote Originally Posted by nfetterly View Post
    I bought the Thorp 1/16" driver off of Ebay - what a nice piece of equipment.
    I did, too! As soon as Don posted, I bought one.

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    Default Re: Removing the Clip

    Troy,

    I remember going through this same ritual. I used a dremel tool and one of those cutting discs to make my flat sides instead of a file. It worked pretty well, but it's almost impossible not to knick the clip in the process. I also remember buying the Thorp 1/16" driver soon after! I keep my clips on the one cell bodies, but have removed them on a couple of my two cells.
    "Please don't dominate the rap Jack, if you've got nothing new to say." - Jerry

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    Default Re: Removing the Clip

    Quote Originally Posted by Dog Chaser View Post
    Troy,

    I remember going through this same ritual. I used a dremel tool and one of those cutting discs to make my flat sides instead of a file. It worked pretty well, but it's almost impossible not to knick the clip in the process. I also remember buying the Thorp 1/16" driver soon after! I keep my clips on the one cell bodies, but have removed them on a couple of my two cells.
    Glad to know I'm not alone. A Dremel - now that would be a great tool to have. I've got to get one.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Removing the Clip

    Copper anti-seize compound is a welcome addition to the "garage supplies", so to speak. Most "good" hardware stores should carry a high quality copper anti-seize compound, and Bondhus brand hex keys (sold individually, and in sets).

    If you can successfully crack the screws loose, you're home free. Generously coat the screws with the copper anti-seize, and work them in and out, (carefully tightening them until you hear the first snap/creak, then loosen again), this is a process, and it will take some time. Make sure the hex key is fully engaged and dead straight in the broach. After the process is completed, you will be able to remove and replace the clip without fear of the dreaded gall.

    When the process is completed, remove all excess anti-seize compound, as it's very difficult, if not impossible to remove from clothing.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Removing the Clip

    A group buy on the Thorp drivers would be a welcome project if anyone wanted to take it on....
    Trees don't grow on money either.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Removing the Clip

    Quote Originally Posted by souptree View Post
    A group buy on the Thorp drivers would be a welcome project if anyone wanted to take it on....
    I'm too busy screwin' people, Ian. Sounds like a project for souptree.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Removing the Clip

    Quote Originally Posted by arewethereyetdad View Post
    Glad to know I'm not alone. A Dremel - now that would be a great tool to have. I've got to get one.
    dad, a Dremel is a must have, get one.

    I just removed the clip from my Bare AL PD (you remember that one, still have it, still love it) to polish it and the clip went right back on. I'll have to get one of those Thorp 1/16" drivers soon.

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    Default Re: Removing the Clip

    To add, any quality hex driver from your local R/C hobby shop will work fine, preferaby the type with machined tips just as the Thorp driver is. I use a Dynamite driver which has a machined HSS hex tip & is also replaceable. BTW, the Thorp driver is made by MIP which is very well known in the R/C car industry. When you need a high quality tool or hardware for smaller items, turn to the R/C car tools & hardware. They're designed to have tight tolerances & take a beating. For example the Ti screws.

    I've worked on lights that seemed to have stripped screws but when I used the Dynamite driver I was still able to get the screws off. It's pretty akward seeing white sparks fry when trying to use a standard L shaped hex wrench when it slips/strips.

    When all else fails, use a Dremel. Cut a slot & use a flat head screw driver to unscrew it. Only had to do that once, no damage to the clip or light if your handy with a Dremel.

    Another trick when removing the Ti clip screws, if the one your trying to unsrew just doesn't seem to budge & feels like it's about to strip, stop & try the other. Lots of times the curvature of the clips is adding resistance to the screws. It helps when you first unscrew the screw that was installed last. So when you put your clip back on, remember which screw you installed last & start with that one the next time you need to take it off again.
    Last edited by darkzero; 11-29-2009 at 05:05 PM.
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    Default Re: Removing the Clip

    I also recommend the Thorp driver.

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    Default Re: Removing the Clip

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbarian View Post
    I also recommend the Thorp driver.
    Got mine a few weeks ago, and it's been stellar.

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    Default Re: Removing the Clip

    Don, have you tried using Torx screws instead? They're probably harder to find, but impossible to strip. In fact, I've used Torx bits on hex screws before because the way the Torx bit puts pressure on the hex head causes it to deforn in a more usable way, instead of just rounding-off and stripping.

  19. #19
    *Flashaholic* McGizmo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Removing the Clip

    fyrstormer,

    Yes, I used some torx stainless screws a few years back. I agree on them being a nice drive design provided you have the appropriate driver and don't mistake them for hex. It is all moot though because I want Ti screws and the hex is what I can get from LunsfordRacing. I have had no problem with the hex screws and a good driver, like the Thorp.

    You say that the torx might be harder to find. I would guess that might be an understatement but it's just a guess because I am not looking for them. I have a very satisfactory relationship with Lunsford and hope it continues.
    Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) "Nature can be cruel- but we don't have to be."~ Temple Grandin

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    Default Re: Removing the Clip

    The Thorp 1/16 McGizmo approved


  21. #21

    Default Re: Removing the Clip

    Pitch diameter is the problem.

    The last batch I received had about 50% of the screws out of spec.

    The screw in the mic. is .09615", which is .00035" over max pitch diameter for 3A fit. This one will make the dreaded creak/snap, all the way home

    One really shouldn't have to purchase the "golden screwdriver", just to install or remove these particular screws




    4-40 2A fit Max = .0950 Min = .0925
    4-40 3A fit Max = .0958 Min = .0939

  22. #22
    *Flashaholic* McGizmo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Removing the Clip

    TB,

    I too had some issues with some out of tolerance Ti screws from Lunsford and the guy there I deal with also runs the machine and he now runs special batches for me and they check them prior to shipment. These screws typically go into softer and more forgiving threaded holes and not into titanium. (That is for Lunsford's target market of which I comment).

    You are probably right that one should not have to buy the golden driver. The reality I deal with dictates otherwise.
    Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) "Nature can be cruel- but we don't have to be."~ Temple Grandin

  23. #23
    Flashaholic* Cuso's Avatar
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    Default Re: Removing the Clip

    Yep , these screws are designed to thread into very soft plastic or aluminum RC parts..

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    Default Re: Removing the Clip

    Quote Originally Posted by McGizmo View Post
    fyrstormer,

    Yes, I used some torx stainless screws a few years back. I agree on them being a nice drive design provided you have the appropriate driver and don't mistake them for hex. It is all moot though because I want Ti screws and the hex is what I can get from LunsfordRacing. I have had no problem with the hex screws and a good driver, like the Thorp.

    You say that the torx might be harder to find. I would guess that might be an understatement but it's just a guess because I am not looking for them. I have a very satisfactory relationship with Lunsford and hope it continues.
    Fair enough. Can I get the size/threading specs of the screws so I can see if something like it exists at all, in case I or anyone else might be interested in swapping them out?

  25. #25
    *Flashaholic* McGizmo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Removing the Clip

    Fyrstormer,

    I am sure it is mentioned elsewhere but I use #4-40 x 3/16" Ti button head screws.

    TB,

    I actually got a call this AM from my friend at Lunsford and I mentioned that you had measured the pitch diameter and found it out of tolerance. He was surprised that you measured it oversize because he said he intentionally makes the screws under size.

    The threads are roll formed and when I had some with issues, I discovered under the microscope that there was a folded over burr that was causing the interference problem.
    Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) "Nature can be cruel- but we don't have to be."~ Temple Grandin

  26. #26

    Default Re: Removing the Clip

    I bought 40 pieces about a month ago and more than half of them did not screw into Titanium without binding.

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    Default Re: Removing the Clip

    Quote Originally Posted by McGizmo View Post
    Fyrstormer,

    I am sure it is mentioned elsewhere but I use #4-40 x 3/16" Ti button head screws.
    It might be mentioned elsewhere, but thanks for mentioning it again. All I ever remember seeing was a hyperlink to the Lunsford Racing site.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Removing the Clip

    TB, you got me thinking so I measured what I have too. Most of mine measure 0.0935" - 0.0940" & these I don't have an issue with.






    I remember the ones on my EDC Ti PD-S creak, the smaller one measures 0.0960" which is just over a class 3A thread. I wonder if this one would pass a Go guage. The ones that I have that don't have fitment issues have a flat top & straight edge at the base unlike the ones I'm used to seeing on Mcgizmos.

    Left: 0.0935", Right" 0.0960"



    When the guy at Lunsford says the he makes them undersize, I wonder what he is referring to. A class 2 thread is most common & loose enough to avoid fitting issues with "other" threads. I would assume undersize would be closer to a class 1 thread but none of mine are that small.


    Here's the machined hex driver ($6) that I use:



    -Will-

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  29. #29

    Default Re: Removing the Clip

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by darkzero View Post
    When the guy at Lunsford says the he makes them undersize, I wonder what he is referring to. A class 2 thread is most common & loose enough to avoid fitting issues with "other" threads. I would assume undersize would be closer to a class 1 thread but none of mine are that small.
    Good question!

    One would think if a company is based around the manufacturing of fasteners, and the like, they would follow an industry standard. Maybe they're just wingin' it, so to speak...

    The pile of Ti 4-40's I still have, seem to have an over-sized broach, and threads that are either within 2A spec., or out of/over 3A...

  30. #30
    *Flashaholic* McGizmo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Removing the Clip

    Hi guys,
    I feel like I should come to the defense of Lunsford as a means of perhaps coming to my own defense but I can't add any information or insight of value here. I did have an issue early on with screws binding and have pretty much alleviated any problem by getting both with Lunsford as well as the machine shop who is tapping the holes these screws go into. I don't know if you guys are cutting or forming your threads or if there could be contribution of the problem at your end as well. I personally do not consider threads in titanium as a trivial element and I know I have experienced any number of challenges myself when cutting threads and tapping Ti. Of course I am no expert on the subject or even close.

    I think any of you who are having problems with Lunsford's screws might want to find a new source where you don't have these problems. I don't know what to say.

    I suppose I should step back and state that when I install these clips on my lights, my concern is not the ease of removing them as much as the requirement that they don't get loose and come off on their own.
    Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) "Nature can be cruel- but we don't have to be."~ Temple Grandin

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