SureFire - what's the deal?

Just curious. It looks like they charge an arm and a leg for something that doesn't put out very much light, especially compared to what's available these days.

SureFire Kroma for example - this thing is $330 & only puts out 50 lumens! 50!

Why are they so expensive? there's a lot more stuff out there that's high quality, brighter & 10 times cheaper. It just doesn't make sense to me.

http://www.surefire.com/Kroma

hehe

we posted the same thing simultaneously

Re: Why are surefire lights so expensive?

1. Why do these threads keep coming up?
2. Search is your friend.
3. Output isn't everything.
4. You pay for R&D, overall quality and product support (i.e. warranty, customer service people, etc).
5. SF is based in California, which is not business friendly (i.e. taxes, laws, etc) which may contribute to overall cost.

Re: Why are surefire lights so expensive?



That poor horse.

This topic has been hashed out ad nauseam and a quick search will net you what you want.

Try typing "Surefire" and "Expensive" or "Cost" in the search field.

Here are a few to get you started

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/42723

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/225027

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/93299&page=5

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/244757

Re: Why are surefire lights so expensive?

Its a quality thing. And don't really go by their posted output numbers. Surefires usually actually put out more than they are rated, unlike other makers which are usually LESS than the posted output.

Someone will undoubtedly say this so it may as well be me. Get one and you'll understand....then there will be no hope for your wallet....

droeun please for the love of not having threads closed down please do a search. This seems to one of those topics that gets as heated as mac vs pc. Bad things get said, feelings get hurt and then :whoopin: no more thread.

In all seriousness this topic has been covered several times with the same end the thread being closed down do to very strong opinions on both sides of the fence.

In my opinion Surefire is a very good brand and they stand behind their light forever. For alomost any reason of damage you will get a broken light fixed. That in my opinion is the big reason to like surefire. That being said there are many other brands out there that are very nice indeed. But YMMV it is going to be a personal choice of what lights you want and how much you spend on them. If you think Surefire is expensive to start with start looking at getting lights modded thats where the real $$$ starts adding up.

Now I will sit back and watch this thread implode.

Re: Why are surefire lights so expensive?

dano said:

1. Why do these threads keep coming up?
2. Search is your friend.
3. Output isn't everything.
4. You pay for R&D, overall quality and product support (i.e. warranty, customer service people, etc).
5. SF is based in California, which is not business friendly (i.e. taxes, laws, etc) which may contribute to overall cost.

Click to expand...

Nailed it - short and sweet :thumbsup:

This thread can probably be closed now.

They are built tough. Of all the flashlights I've had, I have no doubt that if I had to club a horse to death with my 6P Defender that it would still work afterwards. I can't say that about any other light. It's a tank.

fallacies of people
this applies to a work setting too

• always judge things on the surface
• always compare everything by its price
• always believes companies not to have over-exaggerated [in this case for surefire: under-exaggerated] its output
• always believe the functionality of the product is limited to what you see on the packaging
• always believe their question is the newest and most innovative question in any forum and that no one had the idea or construct before they posted it.
• always believe search functions will work incorrectly
• always think that there's something wrong with the system even though its been stable for years

:sigh:
I'm trying to be optimistic here, but doesn't appear to be working :thinking:

Re: Why are surefire lights so expensive?

KDOG3 said:

Its a quality thing. And don't really go by their posted output numbers. Surefires usually actually put out more than they are rated, unlike other makers which are usually LESS than the posted output.

Click to expand...

Sorry - didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings or stir up such a huge can of worms. I should have searched first.

Thanks for the links!

didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings or stir up such a huge can of worms.

Click to expand...

Appears you whacked the Killer Bees nest LOL...

These posts come up once in a while, because:

1. Surefire is not big on marketing
2. Someone might be interested on buying but is scared of the price
3. Few new members search for answers, most prefer the answers come to them.
4. most dont take into account that theres more to flashlights than output.

but really, now you have plenty of material to read supplied by other members.

what i do when i find something i would like to have but cant afford (definitely must be on my range though, i live on a very very tight budget):

1. save money and work overtime, search for other source of income.
2. dont buy it but dont go somewhere criticsizing a brand or products, at least until i have tried them (and i dont think i even do it when i have done so).
3. save and search the CPF marketplace, i have always bought my SF lights there (cant afford retail)

i dont think these posts hurt anybody feelings, its just that the repetition of the topic gets a reaction, and theres a natural tendency to balance things; because if you criticsize something. someone will try to amend the bad publicity generated by lack of information. i guess at this point everyone should learn to assume some stuff instead of over reacting.

Re: Why are surefire lights so expensive?

droeun said:

But how much light can an advertised 50 lumen light actually put out? Sorry - didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings or stir up such a huge can of worms. I should have searched first.

Thanks for the links!

Click to expand...

its complicated, um...

well, put it this way... 50 lumens is a measure of total light, it does not tell you how the light is being distributed. A light can provide close-up illumination by acting as a flood light, or it can allow you to see distant objects by acting as a spotlight, a floodlight and a spotlight each outputting a theoretical 50 lumens in comparison will give you the most distortion, especially if the target object is halfway of the spotlights intended range and just outside the floodlight's designed range.

How much light that's put out is a function of battery capacity, driver efficiency, and junction temperature. How much light you perceive is a function of how much ambient light is in your surroundings [noise/contamination], how wide your pupils are [aperture], the medium you are observing the light in, and the degree of reflectance on the object you intend to light up.

If you are in total darkness on a new moon night and you've conditioned yourself longer than 10 minutes in this darkness, a flashlight that has maybe 5 lumens will "seem" much brighter, if there's haze in the air the beam will appear more solidified and strong, if the object you intend to light up is as reflective as a mirror, then you could be blinded easily.

Now, if your in the brightest metropolitan areas in one of the countries biggest cities, it happens to be a frigid winter night with no haze around you, and the objects your intending to light up is as dull as a brick wall...you get the idea, 500 lumens might make a dent on the side of the streetlight, but 50 lumens would ne nearly undetectable in terms of shining it on already illuminated objects

50 lumens could be multifunctional and dysfunctional depending on your application, surefire is agreeably expensive, but YMMV there are some advantages in both the performance and aesthetics that makes some people favor it from other companies even though there are cheaper alternatives that can "express" 50 lumens in a similar manner.

Finding that secret begins your quest into flashaholicism, the pursuit of finding the right light for your needs, a needle in several haystacks of needles

Whether it be a surefire or not, we're here to help [making you spend money, that is...:nana:]

droeun,

Don't feel too badly. There are several lines of evolution that all flashaholics experience as they learn and grow. All these people are laughing and giving you a hard time b/c they went through it themselves and have had the same questions. Don't let them tell you otherwise.

I myself recently went through the "LEDs are brighter so why use incans?" phase :duh2: :wave:

:welcome:

Illum said:

fallacies of people :ironic:

• always judge things on the surface
• always compare everything by its price
• always believes companies not to have over-exaggerated [in this case for surefire: under-exaggerated] its output
• always believe the functionality of the product is limited to what you see on the packaging
• always believe their question is the newest and most innovative question in any forum and that no one had the idea or construct before they posted it.
• always believe search functions will work incorrectly
• always think that there's something wrong with the system even though its been stable for years

:sigh:
I'm trying to be optimistic here, but doesn't appear to be working :thinking:

Click to expand...

About Illum:

Favorite incandescent light
Surefire A2-HA-WH, Surefire M6

Favorite non-incandescent light
Surefire L4-MCE, Fenix L0D-CE

Favorite Manufacturer
Surefire

That explains it.

The Kroma isn't a "flashlight" per-se, it's a multi mode military tool. The Mil-spec version has an ifared illuminator, then multi modes of LED's for many different uses. I don't think it was even really meant for civilian consuption but the demand was there so it was released. People that understand and want it's useful properties are willing to pay for it, people like you and I have no real need for it don't get it. But figure in the develoment costs, the uniuqness and quality, it's going to be expensive.
As for comparing prices on lights, most o my freinds and family think I am nuts for carrying a $140 Novatac flashlight. "That's just stupid! I'd never pay more than $20 for a flashlight, and then it would have to be a damn nice one!"
Well, it WORKS, it WORKS EVERYTIME, I've dropped it 30ft onto a steel plate, I've gone surf fishing with it, I've burried it in mudd, I've lost it in a snow bank etc., but it still WORKS EVERYTIME!!
I can go buy a Harbor Freight grinder and burn it up in two months, I can buy a DeWalt and use it for four years. $19 vs. $100, in the long run the DeWalt paid off.
I carry a Fenix EO1 on my keychain, people laugh at me for spending $17 "On that little peice of crap that shouldn't cost more than $6!" But guess what, it WORKS!!
Surefire lights aren't cheap, but go buy an E2E, I think EVERYONE should have one of these wonderful little lights! Use it a while, you will "Get it"!
I wont badmouth Fenix, as I say I have one I carry, another in the storm shelter, and bought another for a buddy that does search and rescue. I wont badmouth any manufacture that I haven't had a bad experience with (Like M@G!!!), but you really do get what you pay for when you buy a good TOOL!

its almost a right of passage.... every new CPF member will ponder the question, why are surefires so expensive?

Of course then they find McGizmo lights, Tnc Customs, Leef systems, and so on, and then surefire becomes only the very tip of the iceberg...

Crenshaw

Guys please quit contributing to this thread and let the OP do the searching. Seasoned CPF'ers know where this can end, and trollers will just jump in here pretty quick.

Bill