New TNVC Q5 and TX-1...not super impressed

Fox342 · Nov 11, 2009

I ordered a Q5 LED replacement for my G-2 and 9P, and a TX-1 for my E1e. The Q5 is pretty bright...I don't think it's over 200 lumens, seems a little brighter than my 9P with incandescent, which is 105 lumens....but the TX-1 on my E1e doesn't seem that bright at all to me. I have an Energizer 1 Watt Led that runs on a single AA and the Energizer seem just as bright if not a little brighter than the E1e with the TX-1. I've seen posts where some are really impressed with the brightness of both.

I'm running them with regular throw away batteries...and I'm wondering...do rechargeables really make that much of a difference? Will they make them noticeably brighter?

I don't post much, but I've really learned a lot reading on here...you guys are very knowledgeable.

Thanks
Fox

Fox342 · Nov 11, 2009

Come one I know someone should have some feedback on this for me. :popcorn:

gnef · Nov 11, 2009

What brand of batteries are you using, and are they at full capacity right now? Try a new set.

Also, I haven't heard of that brand of drop-in. I feel if you are going to spend money on a surefire, might as well invest in a high quality drop-in for it. Malkoff has some great reviews, along with some other individuals.

Fox342 · Nov 11, 2009

I use Tenergy batteries...they seem to give my G2 and 9P the same amount of power that I've experienced with other batteries.

I tried putting in some new cells when the power wasn't what I expected. I did a little more searching on here last night and found some beam shots posted by someone that had an example of an L1 (I think) with rechargeables and with regular batteries...the beam shot with rechargeables seemed quite a bit brighter so I'm thinking they make a pretty big difference. I should probably get some anyway since it will be cheaper over the long run.

gnef · Nov 11, 2009

I try to use rechargeable batteries in as many lights as will take them, and I make sure my EDC lights can take rechargeables.

I can highly recommend AW Li-Ion batteries. No, they are not the cheapest, but they are some of the best batteries you can get right now. I have his RCR123 and 2.6Ah 18650 batteries, and am fully satisfied.

Justin Case · Nov 11, 2009

Fox342 said:
I ordered a Q5 LED replacement for my G-2 and 9P, and a TX-1 for my E1e. The Q5 is pretty bright...I don't think it's over 200 lumens, seems a little brighter than my 9P with incandescent, which is 105 lumens....but the TX-2 on my E1e doesn't seem that bright at all to me. I have an Energizer 1 Watt Led that runs on a single AA and the Energizer seem just as bright if not a little brighter than the E1e with the TX-1. I've seen posts where some are really impressed with the brightness of both.

I'm running them with regular throw away batteries...and I'm wondering...do rechargeables really make that much of a difference? Will they make them noticeably brighter?

So are you using the TX1 or the TX2 with the single-cell E1e body? It's been a while since I played around with the TX2 but I think 1x123A lithium primary vs 1x16340 Li-ion makes a difference. It makes sense since the advertised voltage range is 3V-10V. Most likely, the 3V figure is some semi-arbitrary input voltage where the head produces some decent output. But the Cree XR-E Q5 LED Vf at full power (1000mA drive current) has got to be greater than 3.0V. And I would assume that the driver is a pure buck driver, not a boost-buck.

So using 1x123A with a TX2 is going to run the head in direct drive, and most likely at much less than 1000mA drive current when accounting for voltage sag of the 123A under load. In contrast, with 1x16340, Vbatt should be greater than Vf and the driver should be running closer to full regulation (depends on the voltage overhead required).

Fox342 · Nov 11, 2009

Justin Case said:
So are you using the TX1 or the TX2 with the single-cell E1e body? It's been a while since I played around with the TX2 but I think 1x123A lithium primary vs 1x16340 Li-ion makes a difference. It makes sense since the advertised voltage range is 3V-10V. Most likely, the 3V figure is some semi-arbitrary input voltage where the head produces some decent output. But the Cree XR-E Q5 LED Vf at full power (1000mA drive current) has got to be greater than 3.0V. And I would assume that the driver is a pure buck driver, not a boost-buck.

So using 1x123A with a TX2 is going to run the head in direct drive, and most likely at much less than 1000mA drive current when accounting for voltage sag of the 123A under load. In contrast, with 1x16340, Vbatt should be greater than Vf and the driver should be running closer to full regulation (depends on the voltage overhead required).

I am using the TX1 with the E1e. Is a 16340 the same as a 123 rechargeable? I'm not very up on the rechargeables? And when you start talking about drivers I'm really lost...I don't know much about the workings of the flashlights...just how to use them...hahaha

I have the TX1 with impact bezel by the way, and I do really like the impact bezel...just want to get a little more light out of the light.

I looked up the AW rechargeables on lighthound and I see they go for around 6 bucks apiece....not too bad since they'll be used over and over I guess.

Thanks for your help guys.

gnef · Nov 12, 2009

I forgot to mention that you will want to use protected Li-Ion batteries, so make sure that the ones you buy have that protection circuit (AW does sell some without protection, so read carefully)

Justin Case · Nov 12, 2009

You should edit your original post then and remove the reference to the TX-2.

I believe that the current version of the TX-1 is a 2-mode head with some sort of mode memory. Check to make sure that you are running in high mode, not low mode.

Fox342 · Nov 12, 2009

Justin Case said:
You should edit your original post then and remove the reference to the TX-2.

I believe that the current version of the TX-1 is a 2-mode head with some sort of mode memory. Check to make sure that you are running in high mode, not low mode.

I didn't even notice that I had typed in TX2 instead of TX1...thanks for correcting me on that, and I did edit my first post to reflect that.

The LED head that I have for my E1e is a TLS that is made, or at least marketed by, OptiqsHQ. I bought it from TNVC. It's a one stage TX1 with strike bezel. On the TNVC website they offer 4 versions, one stage and two stage, and each with or without strike bezel. They say both will work with either an E1 or E2. The website rates the lumens at 140 for an E1 and 220 for an E2. There is no way my E1e is even close to 140 lumens....I might be getting 40 lumens but that's about it. I was expecting more that's for sure.

Fox342 · Nov 12, 2009

gnef said:
I forgot to mention that you will want to use protected Li-Ion batteries, so make sure that the ones you buy have that protection circuit (AW does sell some without protection, so read carefully)

Thanks for letting me know about that gnef. I have been doing a little research on rechargeables, and I think I'm gonna order a charger and some batteries. I will definitely go with the protected cells.

Justin Case · Nov 12, 2009

Fox342 said:
I didn't even notice that I had typed in TX2 instead of TX1...thanks for correcting me on that, and I did edit my first post to reflect that.

The LED head that I have for my E1e is a TLS that is made, or at least marketed by, OptiqsHQ. I bought it from TNVC. It's a one stage TX1 with strike bezel. On the TNVC website they offer 4 versions, one stage and two stage, and each with or without strike bezel. They say both will work with either an E1 or E2. The website rates the lumens at 140 for an E1 and 220 for an E2. There is no way my E1e is even close to 140 lumens....I might be getting 40 lumens but that's about it. I was expecting more that's for sure.

Sounds like the head is defective. I would return it for another one. For greater flexibility, I would also get a TX2 instead of the TX1. The TX2 can run on a single RCR123A (16340) Li-ion as well as 2xRCR123A (or 2xCR123A primaries). IIRC, it won't run at full brightness on 1xCR123A, so if that is a required battery option, then maybe stick with the TX1.

Does your TX1 have any gaskets or o-rings to seal the glass window? If not and you pocket carry the light, be prepared for debris infiltration into the head.

In a single cell light, I don't see that a protected Li-ion cell is a hard requirement. The greatest problem perhaps is overdischarge. So shut down the light as soon as you detect a decrease in output. If you pocket carry the light, then make sure that you avoid situations where the light turns on and stays on without your knowledge, running down the single cell. A protection circuit isn't going to really help IMO. They seem to typically trigger at around 2.5V or so, which is way too late.

However, it might be simplest to standardize on a protected cell like AW's RCR123As because you may get the "bug" and your flashlight collection might start to include multicell lights that use Li-ions. Just depends. I have AW's RCR123A black wrapper cells for most 123A sized rechargeable applications, except when I need high current. Then I use AW's IMR16340, which are not protected. Or, if I can do so, I might substitute 1x17670 for 2x16340.

If you buy from OpticsHQ, they offer a CPF discount (5% IIRC) as well as another 5% discount when you join their web site. I don't recall TVNC having any discounts.

Fox342 · Nov 13, 2009

Justin Case said:
Sounds like the head is defective. I would return it for another one. For greater flexibility, I would also get a TX2 instead of the TX1. The TX2 can run on a single RCR123A (16340) Li-ion as well as 2xRCR123A (or 2xCR123A primaries). IIRC, it won't run at full brightness on 1xCR123A, so if that is a required battery option, then maybe stick with the TX1.

Does your TX1 have any gaskets or o-rings to seal the glass window? If not and you pocket carry the light, be prepared for debris infiltration into the head.

In a single cell light, I don't see that a protected Li-ion cell is a hard requirement. The greatest problem perhaps is overdischarge. So shut down the light as soon as you detect a decrease in output. If you pocket carry the light, then make sure that you avoid situations where the light turns on and stays on without your knowledge, running down the single cell. A protection circuit isn't going to really help IMO. They seem to typically trigger at around 2.5V or so, which is way too late.

However, it might be simplest to standardize on a protected cell like AW's RCR123As because you may get the "bug" and your flashlight collection might start to include multicell lights that use Li-ions. Just depends. I have AW's RCR123A black wrapper cells for most 123A sized rechargeable applications, except when I need high current. Then I use AW's IMR16340, which are not protected. Or, if I can do so, I might substitute 1x17670 for 2x16340.

If you buy from OpticsHQ, they offer a CPF discount (5% IIRC) as well as another 5% discount when you join their web site. I don't recall TVNC having any discounts.

I think I might just return it for a refund and not an exchange. If I exchange it for another one and I'm not satisfied with it then I will have spent around $30 in postage just sending it back and forth. I'm very disappointed in this TLS LED conversion head.

I read of the field testing of this TLS LED when it was first put out by OptiqsHQ, and it seemed to me that the TLS LED for the E2 worked better on the E1 and the E2...so why don't they just sell one conversion head for both the E1 and E2 instead of 2 different ones? That is actually what I thought they were doing when I saw only one TLS LED conversion head on the TNVC website. The TLS conversion head on the TNVC website lists both the E1 and E2 and says nothing about separate heads for each light.

I already have more lights that do take multi-cell 123's, so getting the rechargeables is probably a good idea anyway.

Justin Case · Nov 13, 2009

In testing the TX2, the head needs about 4V to reach full regulation. So, a fresh Li-ion will probably work fine, but run time in full regulation might not be too long unless you use something like a 17670 cell in an SF L4 host. If you want to run the TX2 in an E1 host and use a 16340, then be prepared for shorter run times in full regulation and less than full output afterward (but still reasonably good). If you want to run using 1x123A lithium primary, then output will be very poor.

I would expect the TX1 to run in full regulation for longer than the TX2 in a single Li-ion application and show clearly better performance if you use 1x123A.

Fox342 · Nov 16, 2009

Thanks guys. I sent the TLS TX1 back to TNVC. They said it sounded like a faulty head or a 2 stage head that's stuck in low. We'll see what happens.

New TNVC Q5 and TX-1...not super impressed

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