Q5 vs R2 (plus Jetbeam question)

Hi everyone, I'm still on that steeeeeep learning curve of making my first LED light purchase...

I'm getting confused about emitters now - I was getting the idea that the newer Quark and Nitecore lights use R2s now rather than Q5's, and that presumably the R2 is a newer, better emitter.

However, in selfbuilt's Jetbeam review I read that the original Jetbeam had R2's, but that the new ones have Q5's.

Presumably I am missing something, but what?! :candle:

Also, on the subject of Jetbeams, is that review still current? It is dated August 08 but I can't seem to find anything more recent (although that could say more about my powers of investigation than anything else).

If the JB's haven't been updated since then, presumably they would be struggling to compete with the latest generation lights? (FWIW I think the brass bits and 'Jetbeam' logo on the PCB of the original version have an awesome, 1950's kind of vibe... but then I'm a bit weird like that)

I don't know about the jet pro, but to my knowledge, the jet-III is using R2s.

q5/r2 is the flux bin-- basically how efficient the LED is.

the differences are in the 5% (tint and efficiency) range (r2 q5), minimal, they are all EXCELLENT, buy your light NOW and be amazed at how any of us got by with ordinary flashlights that were dim and useless after 25 minutes.

whatever led/light you buy (as long as its popular here) will make you very happy, hours of bright useful light from 1 battery.

then you WILL be back for another :candle:

waddup said:

buy your light NOW and be amazed at how any of us got by with ordinary flashlights that were dim and useless after 25 minutes.

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Tell me about it! I'm from a generation and an industry (stage production) that thought the Messiah was a 2AA Maglite.

I'm probably just going to pull the trigger on a couple of Quarks (AA + AA2) anyway as they look like the all-round best fit for me. I just hate not knowing these things...

Knowledge does not come overnight. The way the hobby evolves and progresses you keep gaining knowledge even after years of "flashlight study"

perfect timing, i've been wondering this since i got my Olight M20 this past spring but the ignorance was really getting to me just in the last day or two. back in May was about to get the Q5 version until i saw the R2 was a little brighter but for pretty much the same price. it seemed kinda a silly that both were being offered...230lm vs 250lm isn't really noticeable in the field.

csshih said:

q5/r2 is the flux bin-- basically how efficient the LED is.

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flux bins are something else i've been putting off learning about in pursuit of other information. so you're saying that flux bins designate how much output an emitter has relative to the number of amps it draws? am i missing anything else?

waddup said:

the differences are in the 5% (tint and efficiency) range (r2 q5), minimal, they are all EXCELLENT, buy your light NOW and be amazed at how any of us got by with ordinary flashlights that were dim and useless after 25 minutes.
:candle:

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and you're saying (assuming of course that both emitters are running off identical battery layouts) that the R2 has slightly higher output which means its more efficient but has a slightly cooler light as a result?

Keep in mind that directly comparing flux bins only works for the same model of LED. When you start looking at different models of LED's that have different lumen maintainence curves, the comparrison no longer holds.

and you're saying (assuming of course that both emitters are running off identical battery layouts) that the R2 has slightly higher output which means its more efficient but has a slightly cooler light as a result?

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Not necessarily. The R2 in my Nitecore D20 is actually quite a bit yellower than the Q5 in my other Nitecores.

The problem is that pushing the manufacturing process as far as it will go in one direction (brightness / efficiency) comes at the cost of having a bit less control over some of the other parameters (such as tint). When the flashlight makers order the latest brightest LEDs from Cree they generally have to accept a batch of different tints because that's what comes off the production line.

So with the Q5 Nitecores you get a specific tint bin (WC, which is a nice crisp pure white), but but the R2s, they don't specify what tint you will get. Some people have reported R2s on the blue side, but I got a yellow one.

But if the Quark Mini's use an R5 emitter, does that mean the R2 used in the regular Quarks is now 'established' enough to have a predictable tint? And if so, what is it?!

I'm close to ordering a couple of regular Quarks but I'm getting pretty keen to avoid any blue tint - particularly as I now plan on getting a third one for SWMBO, who could really use a decent flashlight but is the arty type and is known to dislike the 'unnatural' (ie blue) quality of most LED light.

I'm kicking myself that I missed the 'neutral' tint titanium Quarks as I reckon they'd have been just about perfect.

So does anyone have any other suggestions for the following light:
1. AA powered
2. Neutral or warm tint
3. Low low (and good high)
4. Tailstandable
5. Preferably available in matching AA and 2AA versions with swappable bits?

This just goes round and round doesn't it

Um, there was no neutral Ti Quark....

The tint bin is always specified at some level. How much you are willing to pay and how many you want (as the light manufacturer) dictates how specific your range can be. But when it comes to what the LED manufacturer ships, there is no mystery, the flux and tint bins are printed right on the box.

Marduke said:

Um, there was no neutral Ti Quark....

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My mistake - I had the idea that the special emitters used in the Ti's were the 'neutral' tint.

What experience with LEDs do you have? If you are coming from the 5mm LED type lights, any of the modern high power LEDs, even of the "cool white" tint will appear remarkably "white" compared to what you are used to.

Get one of the warm Quark limited edition lights. I have a 123 standard Q3-5A and a 123x2 tac 5A. Only warm tints for me here on out...

F.Y.I. Found I prefer the tac UI over the standard. Can program two levels and not have to touch blinking :green: modes.

Marduke said:

What experience with LEDs do you have?

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Very little other than the usual nasty camping lights and playing around with these on a project.

I know the new, high-end LEDs are a world apart, but I reckon we'd both still prefer the neutral tint - if there's a choice.

pobox1475 said:

Get one of the warm Quark limited edition lights. I have a 123 standard Q3-5A and a 123x2 tac 5A. Only warm tints for me here on out...

F.Y.I. Found I prefer the tac UI over the standard. Can program two levels and not have to touch blinking :green: modes.

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The tactical UI is not for me or the mrs, of that I'm sure. For a general purpose light (everything from camping to bike/wheelchair light to theatre etc), 2 modes just isn't enough, and I am going to draw the line at re-programming a flashlight between uses. Also the sticky-out button would be more prone to damage and accidental activation in the bottom of a bag, and less convenient for candle use. For us, the tactical version is totally the wrong one :laughing:

Brewer, I've got a quark 123.2, with the xp-e R2, and the tint is creamy white. No green, blue or yellow tint... Wouldn't call it cool tinted.

I have a 5A (warmish) raw ns, and it's not that much warmer. The little XP-E is a decent thrower, too.

Good luck!

Brewer said:

However, in selfbuilt's Jetbeam review I read that the original Jetbeam had R2's, but that the new ones have Q5's.

Presumably I am missing something, but what?! :candle:

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Yes, just a bit of history - R2 does indeed represent the next bin after Q5. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Q5s are output rated as 107-113 lumens at 350mA, R2s are binned as 114-121 lumens at 350mA.

Note however that the R2 bins have been around for quite awhile - commercially available from early 2008 - but in very limited quantities at first. A number of lights from that time period - like the Jet-I PRO V1, LiteFlux LF5XT, etc - had R2s in their initial runs. They subsequently switched back to the more commonly available Q5s, due largely to the supply limitations of R2s.

Nowadays, it's not uncommon to see lights coming with R2s again. But the Q5s still seem quite standard. For some reason, "premium" cool white Q5s seem to be easier to come by, so some makers have stuck with these rather than go for R2s of potentially more variable tint (the early R2s were rarely available in quantity/low cost in premium cool white). The best way to look at it is cost - it's not worth it for makers to pay significantly more for premium tint R2s, if premium Q5s are available a lot more cheaply. And relative scarcity has always commanded a price premium.

At the end of the day, I wouldn't worry about it - the difference from one bin to the next direct one has never been worth the effort to upgrade (i.e. only ~7% on average at the rated drive current). In the case of R2/Q5, I must say I rarely see a difference in output measures in my test (i.e. there must be a lot of relatively high-end-of-the-bin Q5s and low-end-of-the-bin R2s out there, or things aren't always what they are labeled ).

As a general rule, tint of the emitter matters most to me.

jkilo said:

Brewer, I've got a quark 123.2, with the xp-e R2, and the tint is creamy white. No green, blue or yellow tint... Wouldn't call it cool tinted.

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selfbuilt said:

{...heaps of really good info...} As a general rule, tint of the emitter matters most to me.

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Thanks guys. Creamy white sounds delicious

So how variable are the R2 tints likely to be on the new Quarks? Will mine all be creamy white as well?

Also the sticky-out button would be more prone to damage and accidental activation in the bottom of a bag, and less convenient for candle use. For us, the tactical version is totally the wrong one

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Damage or accidental activation highly unlikely. Takes deliberate press to activate. In actual use I find that multi modes are seldom needed and with the Quark are only seconds away when they are. Good luck.

selfbuilt's a vast source of excellent info. I'm much less knowledgeable but would like to add a bit to the confusion. Much of the popular LED's in the last couple years have been Cree XR-E LED's. They started as P2 bin went to P4 commonly and on through several bins up to Q5 and then R2. Now more recently along came the Cree XP-E which is a different size and shape emitter with some slightly different characteristics. These are in some of the more recent lights and are a bit more efficient than the XR-E. Even more recently are the XP-G emitters by Cree that are in some of the newer Quarks (Quark Mini and Titanium I believe) but the original ones are using the XP-E R2. The one issue with the XP-G's seen by some but not all is that some of them have a more greenish tint. I haven't noticed it much but it is apparently bad in some XP-G emitters. So far none of the XP-G lights I've got have a noticeably green tint (which I hate) so in some ways it's a lottery. Note also that many lights I've got seem very white until I put them next to another light. Light 1 may seem white until I put it next to light 2 then it seems warm or yellow. But when I put it next to light 3 then it appears cool or bluish. The human eye has the ability to differntiate very fine differences in tint. But most lights by themself will look very white. I personally prefer mostly neutral or cool tints over the new 'warm' tints because the cooler tints tend to have more efficient emitters and thus more brightness when you want it in multi-level lights. Any current popular light you buy can easily be resold on the CPF marketplace if you don't like it and you probably won't lose much so you can try something else if you don't like the tint.

I just picked up a Jetbeam Jet 1 Pro v3 today and really like it. In the past I hated Jetbeams as they had a lot of problems but in the last year or two they have made some really nice lights. One of my favorite the Jet II IBS (non-Pro version) is out of production but is one of the brightest Q5 lights around with a great User interface. Jetbeam has always had some of the finest quality in machining and anodizing and they now have some fine electronics in addition to better quality control. All that being said I think a Quark just might be what you are looking for as long as you get one with a good tint - and that is still one of the flashaholics' quandaries - the tint lottery is still alive and well but I think most Quarks with XP-E's fall within a fairly good tint range.