Running costs: Quark AA vs 123

Brewer

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Just thought I might put this up for discussion - please let me know if it's old hat or if I've missed a major point!

I have been trying to decide whether to move away from my 'AA only' position and consider 123 lights. I was out and about today, and had a look around to see how easy 123's were to come by locally, and their relative cost.

Well, they weren't very easy to find at all round my way (western suburbs of Melbourne) on a Sunday. I tried 2 service stations and a large hardware store with no luck. K-mart had some and no doubt the usual electronics suppliers would have them, but I kind of hoped they might be a bit easier to find - especially as lots of these places actually seem to be expanding their battery range lately.

Anyway, on to cost. I'm not a heavy enough user to justify purchasing rechargable 123s, so I crunched some numbers based entirely on the prices listed by Jaycar Electronics, a reasonably-priced mainstay of Aussie electronic retailing. There are likely better deals to be had, and I realise the numbers would be different with Alkaline cells, but I don't know whether the relative price difference would change an awful lot.

It just so happens that Jaycar lists Japanese-made, Energizer Lithium cells in both sizes. They charge AU$13.50 for 2xAA and AU$19.95 for 1xCR123A - so the 123 is about 3 times the cost of the equivalent AA. The table below uses these costs and the lumens/runtime figures quoted by 4sevens.

It looks to me like it will cost 2 to 3 times as much to run the 123 versions as the AA, even taking into account the performance gains. It also looks like the new Minis give you twice as much bang for your battery buck as the regular Quarks.

Does this all sound reasonable or have I screwed up somewhere?

quarks.gif
 

big vin

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Looks to me that a set of rcr123 and a ultrafire WF-139 charger totals around 20/30$ at dealextreme/kaidomain.

With the wf139 you have a nice charger that can handle a lot of battery sizes, and using a spacer a rcr123 would work just fine.

using rechargeables lets u use your lights more frequent without feeling guilty too
 

hyperloop

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Hi there, i went the same route, in Singapore, CR123s are expensive and i was quite reluctant to get RCR123s at that point in time. But i bit the bullet and now have a fair number of RCR123s and a few chargers, one in the office specifically for charging RCR123s and 2xWF-139s for home use.

With AAs, i know i can get them anywhere, so it isn't much of a hassle. My EDC is a EX10 GDP and i carry 3 spare RCR123s in my bag and on a weekend, a fresh cell goes in if i am not carrying a spare.

Get some RCR123s and a charger, they will pay for themselves within a short time as you wont shy away from using the light more often, knowing that guilt free lumens are just a charge away (especially so if you charge them in the office :D )
 

Oddjob

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CR123's are much less expensive online ($2.00 USD or less per cell) but I recall there being some issue with getting them shipped to Australia-could be wrong but I remember reading something about it. In your position I would stick with the readily available primary or rechargeable AA's for simplicity. RCR123's do take a little more care to use and since you are not a heavy user they may not be beneficial.
 

waddup

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only rechargeables make economic sense.

1 x $6 rechargeable battery can be used 60+ times = $360 in primaries.

who in their right mind would use primaries?:whistle:
 

aceo07

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Whichever format you go with, use rechargeables. I only use primaries if I'm on a trip or hiking/camping. Even then I use rechargeables and then go to primaries if I need to.
 

notsobrite

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Whichever format you go with, use rechargeables. I only use primaries if I'm on a trip or hiking/camping. Even then I use rechargeables and then go to primaries if I need to.

+1. i only use primaries to back up the rechargeables in my cars emergency flashlights.
 

mcnair55

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To buy 123 batteries in a normal UK shop is a total no no,many charging about 10 US $ per cell but by using the battery wholesalers the cells come shooting down in price and as a retail punter they are happy to supply you with 1 or more.

Many also do a nice charger and 2 cells for well less than £10 UK pounds.:wave:
 

strinq

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Whichever format you go with, use rechargeables. I only use primaries if I'm on a trip or hiking/camping. Even then I use rechargeables and then go to primaries if I need to.

+2.
I also only use primaries (but only lithiums) for my car light. They're often exposed to high temps. Living in a tropical country where the average outdoor temp at noon reaches about 30-32C.
 

Saint_Dogbert

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Since it looks like you're into doing all the calculations, I'd do something similar with rechargeables to see if you really use the light infrequently enough to warrant only using primaries - unless you already did some calculations. In any case, I'm sure that CR123A cells can be found more inexpensively online.
 

Brewer

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The trouble with specific rechargeables is that it brings along certain 'battery management' responsibilities. It's one thing if you are a heavy enough user that charging and turning over cells is part of your daily or weekly routine, but as a more casual user this has the potential to be a bit of a pain.

I don't need a light for my work any more, so a single charge could potentially last me for months - until I go camping (in which case I need enough batteries to last a week or two of heavy use), or do a bit of cycling in winter (where I might notch up a couple of hours use at a time). Rechargeable AA's (which I've been planning to get into for a while now) fit everything, and I won't exactly bleed if I run out of charged batteries and have to burn through a couple of packs of primaries once in a while.

AA's are cheap enough to have some spares at work, at home, in the car, in my edc etc, and they are useful for other purposes as well. I've made it a bit of a point in recent years to choose AA devices over other battery formats (although there really aren't many of them, and most of them are lights anyway...):p

I'm not ruling out 123's yet, I really like the idea of bigger output in a smaller light, I'm just wondering out loud whether the expense of getting set up and the inconvenience of having to buy / charge batteries specially in advance is really justifiable in the case of a casual user like myself.
 

hyperloop

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I'm a casual user myself especially when it comes to RCR123s but i decided that having the greater output in the smaller package was worth the extra effort of checking cell voltages, charging and rotating cells on a 2-weekly or monthly basis.

Honestly, go for rechargables, its a savings in the long run.
 

Tom_123

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You should also consider that you won't get much of a regulation
with the Quark 123 and CR123 batteries.

Here's a runtime chart of the Quark123 and the Dereelight C2H with
CR123 and AW 16340 batteries.

http://s671.photobucket.com/albums/...H Review/?action=view&current=Runtime_123.jpg

My recommendation would be:

Quark AA, the said Ultrafire charger and one or two AW 14500 rechargeable batteries.
With one battery this would be about 30 USD at 4 Sevens and if you don't use the light
very often, this setup should last for years.
You will get the full regulated 170 lumen output on max and about 10 minutes more runtime
compared to the 16340/RCR123.

Runtime chart with alkaline AA, Eneloops and AW14500 rechargeables:

http://s671.photobucket.com/albums/...2H Review/?action=view&current=Runtime_AA.jpg
 

LED_Thrift

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Welcome to CPF Brewer.

I still have four or five torches that use 123s, but my all of my new lights are AA powered. The AA based lights have come a long way and are bright enough for most of my uses, and I love the fact that AAs are so common. If I need a brighter torch, I'll get one that runs on 18650s.

To me the best battery-related innovation in the last five years is the low-self discharge [LSD] NiMH cell, i.e. Eneloops & Hybrids AAs.

You can charge them and leave them in a light that only gets used occasionally and they'll be ready when you need them, or you can use them in your EDC and they perform great. Most high power torches that need AAs are brighter on the rechargeables than on the best alkaline cells. Fairly cheap to begin with, forgiving to charge [almost foolproof- no battery memory, no fires], almost zero cost to use in your lights, and they don't leak if you leave them in a light a long time. That alone has saved me ruined lights and the annoying job of cleaning out the insides of torches.
 
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monkeyboy

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You could try 17670 in the quark 2x123 models. Check out the charts by selfbuilt.

From what I've seen, the regulation is quite good in this configuration even thought the head is designed for higher voltage. It's a tight fit though, I've tried AWs protected 17670 and some cells fit with the sticker removed but some are just a little too wide. (Bear in mind that the protection circuit might not function in this configuration). Unprotected cells would certainly fit. According to the charts, 17670 gives similar output to rcr123 with longer runtime.
 

Mr_Light

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I EDC a Quark 123 with an AW RCR123. I like the much brighter max output than I can get versus a AA Eneloop which was my first Quark configuration. I keep a spare RCR123 in the charger (not a trickle charger) and swap cells about once a month. The smaller size and lighter cell helps for an EDC. I should mention that I did buy the extra AA body for my Quark and a 14500 cell to cover all my bases.
 

BentHeadTX

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I prefer single AA lights for EDC

Generally, I use Eneloops in them and the low self discharge works great. If I go camping out in the cold, throw a lithium E2 Energizer in there and press on. Out of cells or have to wait for the Eneloop to recharge? Alkaline can go in there and I usually turn down the output to help the battery out. Want monster output? Throw a 14500 lithium-ion in to really get the light throwing photons. I personally have not picked up a 14500 yet but plan on it in the next few months. Really like the idea that the 14500 has more capacity than an RCR123 as I used those with my FF3.

The choice of 4 different types of batteries really cement my choice for single AA lights for EDC and 2AA for bike lights.
 

adirondackdestroyer

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You should be able to buy 123 cells for MUCH less than that online. 4sevens.com has a 10 pack of the new 4sevens 123 cells for $19, and a 2 pack for $7. I'm pretty sure he has free worldwide shipping for orders over $20, and there is also an 8% coupon code as well. So you should be able to get 12 of them for around $24 shipped.
 

bob_ninja

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The trouble with specific rechargeables is that it brings along certain 'battery management' responsibilities. It's one thing if you are a heavy enough user that charging and turning over cells is part of your daily or weekly routine, but as a more casual user this has the potential to be a bit of a pain.

Well if you need to charger them rarely then management work is minimal. Keep in mind you can get a very cheap and reliable Eneloop charger in a package with cells that is very simple to use, no real management hassle or learning curve.

I don't need a light for my work any more, so a single charge could potentially last me for months - until I go camping (in which case I need enough batteries to last a week or two of heavy use), or do a bit of cycling in winter (where I might notch up a couple of hours use at a time). Rechargeable AA's (which I've been planning to get into for a while now) fit everything, and I won't exactly bleed if I run out of charged batteries and have to burn through a couple of packs of primaries once in a while.

Ditto
I don't use much lights during summer for obvious reasons. AAs are certainly the most economical choice. Keep in mind with Eneloops and other LSDs you can have them sitting on a shelf for a full year without any management work. You can ignore them for a long time! So there is no longer any real point in getting primary AAs except for certain very low current applications.

AA's are cheap enough to have some spares at work, at home, in the car, in my edc etc, and they are useful for other purposes as well. I've made it a bit of a point in recent years to choose AA devices over other battery formats (although there really aren't many of them, and most of them are lights anyway...):p

I'm not ruling out 123's yet, I really like the idea of bigger output in a smaller light, I'm just wondering out loud whether the expense of getting set up and the inconvenience of having to buy / charge batteries specially in advance is really justifiable in the case of a casual user like myself.

I am also debating this same issue. My conclusion is that for the majority of uses AA NiMH LSD cells are *THE* best choice, no competition, period.

Specifically for my Quark (soon to be plural Quarks ;) I am considering LiIon specifically for outdoor winter use when temps are well below freezing. For instance when clearing snow I need a good light as I have no street lights and a long driveway to clear. LiIon provides superior performance at low temps and superior output to NiMH.

My compromise is to stick with AA tubes (such as Quark and Minis) but purchase 14500s. I am considering getting AA format LiIon. Then I could switch my Quark AA2 body for the single AA body and switch to 14500 cell for winter use. In spring back to AA2 body and Eneloops. Simple.

I bougt Eneloops around $2.50/cell. For comparison using the Canadian 47 site (CAD$):
AW 18650 2600 mAh = $23 = 9.2 Eneloops
AW 18650 2200 mAh = $20 = 8 Eneloops
AW 14500 750 mAh = $14 = 5.6 Eneloops

Assuming around 2.4Wh for Eneloops, in terms of capacity they range from:
3.8V * 2.6Ah = 7.28Wh / 2.4 Wh = 3 Eneloops
to:
3.8V * .75Ah = 1.2 Eneloops

Clearly price based multiplier is far greater than Wh capacity multiplier, meaning that for equivalent energy contents I am paying about 3x more for LiIon.

I am considering purchasing a couple of 14500s, but staying with Eneloops for the most part.

As for 123 format, I see no point in complicating things with another cell format which will require new flashlight body types, etc. Clearly 123s I could not use in any thing except for flashlights limiting their usefulness further.

I can see their appeal for serious flashlights people though, so I guess for them they are prefect.
 
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