Do *NOT* BUY a SureFire rechargeable!!!

Gandalf

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After 16 days, my shiny new CL09 battery packs produced less than 5 minutes worth of light each.
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Plus, I burned out a $24 lamp 'conditioning' all of the battery packs that I have for my 8NX (6 different packs, with 3 lot numbers, so far...).
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My total so far: $135, flushed down the toilet, over 4 months' time, and a flashlight that is absolutely *worthless*, because the battery packs are *CRAP* ! DO *NOT* BUY A SUREFIRE RECHARGEABLE. My opinion only, of course.
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tkl

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sorry you got burned. i thought you've been here long enough to know this?

the only rechargable i have or ever will is a streamlight.
 

flashfan

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Actually, call SureFire Customer Service in the morning. Unless their customer service department has changed (like just about everything else at SF this year), I would think that they would want to make things right for you.

If you do call, please report back regarding their response.
 

Gandalf

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Yes, I called customer service, for the 4th time. I was offered a lithium flashlight as a replacement. I have an E1, 2 E2's, including a KL1 on the way, 2 P6's, a P9 with shock isolated bezel and cliclie tailcap, an M2, and an M6. I don't need another lithium Suefire.
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I need a SureFire 8NX with 2 battery packs that perform similarly to my Streamlight rechargeables.
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So then SureFire offered to send me 2 more (yawn....) battery packs, lot CL09.
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Then, the fellow at Technical Support told me that of the 'thousands' of CL09's they've sent out, SureFire has only received ****2**** complaints. Yeah, right....
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That doesn't pass the smell test, to me. It stinks, and I don't believe it for a single second.
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I think it's damage control. Oh yeah, we've sent out *thousands* of CL08 packs and we've only received ***2*** complaints before yours. Do you buy that cr*p? I sure as h*ll don't, but this is just my opinion, of course.
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**DONOTDELETE**

Guest
2 out of 1000 sounds reasonable to me. I've seen about 10 people here on CPF complain about the 8NX. Is is not reasonable to think that 5000 were good?

I've had an 8NX,8AX-BK,8AX-HA and a 9AN for about a year now. I've started with the 8NX and now use the 9AN 5 days a week with no problems. Much better than the Magcharger it replaced and any streamlight I've used (mainly due to the size). The Streamlight and Maglight are too big to keep on my belt for 12 hours, getting in and out of a car.

I know my story will not be comforting to you but crappy batteries happen. Just call SF and get them replaced. I use my batteries for about 30-40 minutes and change them out. I carry an M2 as backup just in case. If I don't use my lights for just a few days however, it loses alot of juice FAST.

One thing to note: DO NOT drain the battery all the way to the point it dims noticibly. This will cause one of the cells to reverse polarity and you will only get a short runtime like 5 minutes. Charge them before they dim.

I've heard horror stories of SF rechargeable batteries.... I hope they fix the problem!
 

bmsmith

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New Hampshire
Gandalf, sorry about your trouble.. not fun for sure.

I'd love to know what SF does wrong with their rechargables. Is it the brand of battery, the charger or what? Considering the way that the Radio Control industry treats its batteries (30 minute charge cycles with 7 minute discharges at up to 20-30 Amps sustained on RC2400 NiCd cells) it's amazing that such a low current drain device is destroying the batteries.

I wish Streamlight would release a new battery pack for the US that uses RC2400 NiCd cells or even NiMH 3000's with a new NiMH charger. Go Runtime!!

- Brian
 
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**DONOTDELETE**

Guest
Where was this thread two months ago when I bought my 8NX???? ;-) I was literally logging on just now to ask if anyone knew where the thread was I had seen alluded to re: B90 battery problems. I realize this may belong in the battery forum now but, MAN, does this battery SUCK!!! I assumed, maybe incorrectly, that since this was a "smart" charger the batteries did not need to be conditioned and could be put in the charger in any state of charge/discharge. Was I wrong in that assumption? These two batteries are from lot CK43.

I simply cannot have a light that only lasts half a show if I'm working backstage and during the second act I have to try and locate my 6P (always at the MOST inopportune time). Like many people here I can't have a torch I can't rely on.

As somewhat of a newbie I thought the quality of SF's lithium lights would be there in their rechargeables. Wrong, huh?

I'll try SF customer service but until this gets resolved the 8NX goes in the very expensive junk drawer.
 

geepondy

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Originally posted by Gandalf:
Yes, I called customer service, for the 4th time. I was offered a lithium flashlight as a replacement. I have an E1, 2 E2's, including a KL1 on the way, 2 P6's, a P9 with shock isolated bezel and cliclie tailcap, an M2, and an M6. I don't need another lithium Suefire.
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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Which lithium light(s) did they offer as a replacement? My 8AX has been dismal as well but I could be had for the right lithium Surefire.
 
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**DONOTDELETE**

Guest
Just found the threads I was looking for. I'll now go wallow in self-pity with the other 8x owners.

Steve
 

dano

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I used to really abuse my R/C batteries back in my racing days...Try a 6 amp/15 minute fast charge, which ran an 11 turn D/C motor, which drained the pack at exactly 4 minutes 30 seconds (an off-road R/C? race is 4 minutes long). I used to melt the shrink wrap right off the pack...Anyways...Sanyo has just released a 3300MAH sub-c cell.

On topic: I'm looking into the possibility that it may be a charging/charger problem and or the way SF cycles the battery packs (something alluded to on the SF board). I'm starting to think that a company like SF still cannot or has not found out why the cells are going bad. Quite possibly, the cells are fine when they leave SF, but are getting "killed" unassumingly by the end user...more to come on this...

--dan
 

Sean

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I would agree that the charger could be causing the problems.

It's these very complaints that have kept me from buying an 8AX or 9AN. My 10X is working great though, I've been through about 10 charge cycles and I still get consistent run times. After 7 days it still holds about 70~75% charge. I guess what I'm saying is I hope my 10X is immune to these problems (fingers crossed).
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Gandalf

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Originally posted by geepondy:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Gandalf:
Yes, I called customer service, for the 4th time. I was offered a lithium flashlight as a replacement. I have an E1, 2 E2's, including a KL1 on the way, 2 P6's, a P9 with shock isolated bezel and cliclie tailcap, an M2, and an M6. I don't need another lithium Suefire.
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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Which lithium light(s) did they offer as a replacement? My 8AX has been dismal as well but I could be had for the right lithium Surefire.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He didn't offer any specific light. When I told him what I already had, it was pretty obvious another $100 SureFire *isn't* what I want. I want 2 g*ddamn SureFire B90's that will hold a d*mn charge!
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And I did buy a spare lamp up front, for $24, and the original is now toast. $24 down the toilet.

I've had one Magcharger for more than 15 years now, 1 for around 10 years and 2 of my 3 Stingers for 7 and 8 years, respectively. Lots of experience with them. They just freakin' WORK! And the POS B90's that SureFire is supplying don't! It's just that simple.
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As far as not running it until it dims noticeably: when these packs go, they go in like 15-30 seconds. With the newest batteries, they *never* went past just dimming to yellow. I did that three times to each pack, and then charged and dated the packs. I checked them every few days, running them for only 2 or 3 minutes. Between 12 or 13 and 16 days, both packs cr*pped out. Total burn time on each pack was less than 10 minutes. I've run my Stingers dead, or nearly dead, many, many times, with no problems. My oldest pack is made by Streamlight; it's 4 1/2 years old, and it holds a charge for *months*. I have one Magcharger pack that's almost 6 years old, and after a little over 4 months, I still got at least 20 minutes of bright light from it. I date all of my packs when I buy, or make them, and when I charge them up. I have little round self stick circles, available at any office supply store, that I use to keep track of my rechargeables. My NiMH AA'a get charged at the beginning of every month. I just do them all. Every once in awhile, I look over my Magcharger and US, and Stinger packs, and charge them if needed. I've *never* had one go dead in such a short time as the SureFire packs; and those suckers are *brand new*, and can't stand next to a nearly identical Stinger pack (3 sub C cells, 1800mAH) that are 1 to several *years* old.

And some people seem to think it's *normal* to have to put a freshly charged battery in their regarageable SureFire whenever they use it. That's a crock of cr*p! I've seen cheap rechargeable lights in Target (some years ago)that claimed to hold a charge for 6 months! That's a $16.99 light. SureFire should find out who makes their NiCads!
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Sean

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Good luck getting them to admit to or fix this "issue"!

Since, as all warranty issuers claim: 'I've never seen that happen before'. or 'That's extremely rare'. I could tell you so many stories of non-flashlight companies making these claims and not documenting them so CSR's don't know about the problem and simply blow you off as a b*tchy customer.
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guncollector

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Re: only 2 complaints out of the thousands of B90's shipped.

Pardon my French, but that is bullsh*t.

I have personally called SF Tech/Cust Service to complain, plus Gandalf has called. That's two right there. I do not believe we are the only two to have called--as suggested by the number of disatisfied Surefire rechargeables owners on CPF, SIDB, and USN. No way.

As concrete proof, I offer that in speaking to head Surefire Tech, Steve Ryan, in June 2002 he was well-aware of some problem CK-43's not holding their charge and advised me to request B90's from the new lot when available. If there were only 2 complaints out of thousands, why would he suggest this?

Furthermore, in the two separate occasions I've personally spoken with Surefire Customer Service, the reps voiced exasperation with the number of calls to replace B90's--and indicated no surprise. Does that sound like only 2 complaints out of thousands? One CS rep told me entire police dept.'s were sending in their rechargeables, batts, and chargers for replacment--and that they wanted to avoid this by replacing only the batts.

Re: Definition of "Working"

This may be part of the problem. I'm not so sure that Surefire's testing methodology is kosher. I think they pull a freshly-charged B90 off the charger and test it immediately (or soon thereafter--i.e. within a day or few hours) on an X80 lamp. That's great methodology if you want to test a "hot-off-the-charger" (HOTC) B90's, but NOT SO great if you want to test "charge-holding" capability over a week, or two, or a month.

If fellow forumite Surefire M6 indicates he uses his Surefire 9AN 5-days/week, I'm not surprised he considers his B90's as "functional". I suggest he try setting one B90 unit aside for say just 10 days and see if he gets even close to 50% run-time. I'd be very interested in his results. I do suggest that he not put himself in a risky situation requiring light with any-lot B90 which has been off the charger more than a 3-5 days!

My old crappy CK-43's would work fine HOTC, but after 5-7 days would literally crap out after 10-15 seconds. My newer, replacement CL-09's so far have been good even after 5-7 days off the charger, but I haven't conducted any tests longer than say 1 week. (Note: I am testing two CL-09's as of yesterday for a 2-week & 4-week charge holding test.)

For now, I consider my 9AN's (with CL-09 stick) functional only if used within 5-7 days of inserting a freshly-charged. I suggest anybody who really relies on their lights to not go anymore than 3-5 days without recharging (or inserting a freshly-charged B90.
 

revolvergeek

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I bought an 8X years ago when it first came out, and this is exactly what happend to me. I ate batteries, and changing chargers, and more batteries made no difference. The 6R that I had was a little better, but not much. I will not own any Surefire rechargables again any time soon.
 

redbird

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I too have an 8x with 4 CLO9 batteries and now CL05s. I admit they are better than the one's that came with the light but most of the time it sits gathering dust.

I sure wish Surefire whould have offered me the chance to get a lithium light in exchange for this waste of time light.

The suggestions everyone offers about changing out batteries before use sound good if heading out for patrol. BUT, in reality I have TOTAL confidence in my UltraStinger that it will work dependably as advertised even if off the charger for weeks at a time.

Surefire has a looser on their hands with the rechargeable line. They should a): fix the problem or b): drop the line.

We will not waste any more money on Surefire rechargeables...period. Streamlight rules hands down.
 

Gandalf

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out for patrol. Surefire has a looser on their hands with the rechargeable line. They should a): fix the problem or b): drop the line.

We will not waste any more money on Surefire rechargeables...period. Streamlight rules hands down.[/QB]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Amen to that. I should have just stuck with my Stingers,and UltraStinger (And Magchargers, which I seldon use, these days...). I *do* like the size and weight of the Nitrolon 8AN (You can hold it in your mouth, if you have to, with no worry about chipping a tooth.) But I wish I'd never bought the POS.
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El Lobo

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Sep 18, 2002
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I couldn't believe this thread!!!!
I just had this problem this morning. Fully charged last Saturday, not used until this morning, 10 MINUTES of light and pooooof.....
So I just opened up my 8nx to look.....CK43!
I just sent an e-mail to Surefire. Guess we'll see what happens.

El Lobo
 
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