Troubleshooting a SureFire M2--PROBLEM SOLVED... THANKS CPFer's

Hey CPFers,

I was plaing SUREFIRE lego today and came across an interesting problem with my M2. I went to replace the twisty with a Z58 HA and to my suprise... it didnt work.

I tried another Z58 that I have mounted on a Z2L and still no results.

I returned both Z58's to the lights that the originally came from and they both fired up fine.

I replaced the M2's stock Z41 HA and it fired up fine

I clened the threads and tried again with the Z58... no joy.

Im confused.... the Z58's work fine, just not on the M2. The M2 works fine, just not with the Z58's

My M2 is set-up as follows:

Surefire M2 Millenium body- Stock (NO mods)
Malkoff M60 Drop-in with rubber fitting ring.
Fresh SUREFIRE primaries.

Any suggestions or help on this one??


------- UPDATE 2009/11/27-------

Problem solved!!! See post 15!

Re: Troubleshooting a SureFire M2-- HELP

Try the Clickie TailCaps on the M2 with the stock P60, and/or the P60L installed. If it works then it's aftermarket dropin.
If it still doesn't work then carefully compare the length of the threads between your M2 and your Z2L bodies. It could be that for whatever freaky reason the M2 body TialCap threads are a tiny bit too short. In which case perhaps contact SureFire (there is no need to mention the aftermarket dropin because you've already ruled it out by checking that the Clickies don't function even on a stock M2 w/ P60.)

Re: Troubleshooting a SureFire M2-- HELP

I got it figured out here guys.

On most normal surefire dropins there is that large outside spring that allows the dropin to make contact with the metal in the light to complete the circut.

The dropin, as it sits in my M2 (for some reason) doesnt connect and complete that cirsut. Mine has an extremely small gap that is the cause of the failure with the Z58.

After a small cut job on a leftover Solar-force drop-in spring that wasnt being used.... a "half" ring was placed on the Malkoff drop-in .3 cm up from the battery connect /spring/terminal. When my M2 was screwed back together this completed the circut and we had ingition!!!


YAY!!

NOW.... time for bed :tired:

Re: Troubleshooting a SureFire M2-- HELP

Malkoff sells a fitting ring for use with M2 bezels. Ipodding now, but see my Hosts thread for a link.

Re: Troubleshooting a SureFire M2-- HELP

Its not the fitting ring.... I have that installed as per malkoff and it doesnt seem to be the problem.

all i can figure on right now is a connection problem between the dropin and the M2 body... I can jury rig it so that it works but i still dont undertstand how it can work with the z48 without the rigging and not with the z58.

Re: Troubleshooting a SureFire M2-- HELP

For the longest time I've always wondered why all the 3rd party drop ins came with a extra spring (and why did SF P60 modules come with 2 springs) After fiddling around with some isolating bezels, I know now.

Re: Troubleshooting a SureFire M2-- HELP

Just some thoughts:
-See it if works without the bezel in place, and the module pressed into the body. The spring on the Z58 protrudes a lot deeper into the battery tube than that of a Z41. It's possible(stiff spring, spring binding on the piece that it compresses into??) that in spite of the fitting ring, the shock isolation is allowing the module to be pushed forward by the batteries, therefore losing contact with the body.

-Make sure there is a tiny ring of bare metal around the back edge of the Malkoff. >O< It's possible that the back edge of the module was covered when the circuit was potted, disallowing contact at the very rear of the module.

It's good that it works with the spring, but it would be nice if you could get it working the way it's designed to.

Re: Troubleshooting a SureFire M2-- HELP

Owen said:

Just some thoughts:
-See it if works without the bezel in place, and the module pressed into the body. The spring on the Z58 protrudes a lot deeper into the battery tube than that of a Z41. It's possible(stiff spring, spring binding on the piece that it compresses into??) that in spite of the fitting ring, the shock isolation is allowing the module to be pushed forward by the batteries, therefore losing contact with the body.

-Make sure there is a tiny ring of bare metal around the back edge of the Malkoff. >O< It's possible that the back edge of the module was covered when the circuit was potted, disallowing contact at the very rear of the module.

It's good that it works with the spring, but it would be nice if you could get it working the way it's designed to.

Click to expand...

Those are really good thoughts. I removed the bezel and pushed the module all the way down and the Z58 works. you are right in that there is ALOT more pressure put on the batteries and in turn the head because the the Z58 spring (when compared to the Z41) and because the the isolating properties on the bezel keeping the module centred it is loosing contact with the body and the circut is failing.

HMMM.... any suggesting on how to correct this...

Re: Troubleshooting a SureFire M2-- HELP

Alberta-Blue said:

Its not the fitting ring.... I have that installed as per malkoff and it doesnt seem to be the problem.

all i can figure on right now is a connection problem between the dropin and the M2 body... I can jury rig it so that it works but i still dont undertstand how it can work with the z48 without the rigging and not with the z58.

Click to expand...

On a whim I just tried a M60L and M60LL (both newer production) in a newer and older style M2 bezel without the fitting ring and both were able to light up (and they still were lit when I shook the light). Tried it with a Z41, Z48, Z58 and SW02 and they all worked fine. That's kind of odd that your setup works wih 1 tailcap and not the other.

Test setup was as below:



Additionally I tried the M60L on a Z3 in my above post and it lights up too (but if you shake the light the operation will be intermittent)

Re: Troubleshooting a SureFire M2-- HELP

Alberta-Blue said:

are their any suggestions on how to remove the film w/o damaging the module.

Click to expand...

Lightly filing it won't hurt anything. You're just trying to remove whatever is covering the metal there. I've actually ground down one of my Malkoffs so there is no gap with a non-shock isolated bezel, though I did it all handheld with a Dremel tool, and it's not the cleanest job. It works, though.

Re: Troubleshooting a SureFire M2-- HELP

Hmmmm... well I have a few great options here from all of you that responded.lovecpf

What I think I am going to do (since I was going to do it before this issue anyway)... I am going to go pick up a Z49 and see if that will work for me.

I also have a SW02 on the way up that was going to be the switch on my duty light... since this is the Duty backup ill try this as well and hopefully Ill get some results.

I think ill resever the dremel on the MALKOFF until it is the last option... Im not very experienced with modding internals in this way and would prefer not to unless I dont have another choice.

Something else that I noticed is that the spring for the positiove terminal on the MALKOFF is extremely stiff to the point where it could easily be seperating from the body by compressing the foam rubber in the M2 Bezel(maybe it just needs some breakin)... has anyone else experienced this before??

Re: Troubleshooting a SureFire M2-- HELP

Alberta-Blue said:

HMMM.... any suggesting on how to correct this...

Click to expand...

This is kind of a pain in the butt, but you could try a couple of appropriately sized washers between the Z58 and the tailcap threads-that will give you contact between the body and tailcap, while letting the tailcap stand off a little further so the spring doesn't intrude into the body as far. The question is how many, or how thick a washer, and the pain part is that you'll have to make sure the washers don't fall out every time you change batteries. I suppose the simplest fix is to use a Z44-HA bezel, making your M2 a C2.


Check out this thread. I posted pics and dimensions of some washers that might help.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/227253

Re: Troubleshooting a SureFire M2-- HELP

Alberta-Blue said:

Hmmmm... well I have a few great options here from all of you that responded.lovecpf

What I think I am going to do (since I was going to do it before this issue anyway)... I am going to go pick up a Z49 and see if that will work for me.

I also have a SW02 on the way up that was going to be the switch on my duty light... since this is the Duty backup ill try this as well and hopefully Ill get some results.

I think ill resever the dremel on the MALKOFF until it is the last option... Im not very experienced with modding internals in this way and would prefer not to unless I dont have another choice.

Something else that I noticed is that the spring for the positiove terminal on the MALKOFF is extremely stiff to the point where it could easily be seperating from the body by compressing the foam rubber in the M2 Bezel(maybe it just needs some breakin)... has anyone else experienced this before??

Click to expand...

Kinda strange that it worked for me abut you are still having some issues the the M2 head. Curious do you have the older brass fitting ring or the newer rounded one? Additionally maybe a washer somewhere will fix the issue.

Also yes indeed the springs are pretty stiff.

Re: Troubleshooting a SureFire M2-- HELP

Alberta-Blue said:

any suggesting on how to correct this...

Click to expand...

Okay, back at a computer.

This is the old Malkoff ring, a spring designed to sit underneath the drop in and bridge the gap made as the dropin leaves the body. This is the new Malkoff ring, a spacer designed to sit above the drop in (you pre install it inside the M2 bezel), pushing/holding the drop inside the body.

You're goal should be to produce as much pressure in the direction of the battery, as possible. You might also try stretching the suspect tailcap spring to create more tension.

Re: Troubleshooting a SureFire M2-- HELP

PROBLEM SOLVED...

The problem was the Tailcap. Here's the story...

I went out today and bought an Z49 Tailcap (BTW... awsome tailcap) to to solve the problem and admittedly... for shits and giggles cuz I wanted to. :twothumbs

When I got home I compared the protrusion of the drop-in (M2 bezel removed) with both the Z58 and Z49 tailcaps. The Z58 pushed the drop-in up above the body of the light noticably more when compared to the Z49 (or even the stock Z41 for that matter). :scowl:

The spring inside the Z58 was so stiff that it was putting enough pressure on the system (the batteries, the drop-in, and the foam rubber in the M2 Bezel) to compress the rubber, seperating the drop-in from being in electrical contact with the body and fouling the clicky operation. :thumbsdow

Your guesses are as good as mine as to why this is the case with this switch... :thinking:. Maybe it was just my Z58 or maybe it is a compatibility problem with the Z58 and the M2 bezel with certain drop-ins.:shrug:

Either way... hopefully this thread helps people with the same problem in the future. :candle:

Thanks for all your help and input fellow CPFer's

Alberta-Blue

PS... I love this light... and that Z49 just gives it that "extra hardcore" type of look. :rock: