If not the Maelstrom then what now?
- Thread starter sfca
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i aint yet seen no malestorms; buncha speculation's all.
if fortysevens is anything like surefire, you may be waiting until 2012 and we know what happens next
would it be ok if i made a recommendation now?
get yourself the olight m20 warrior from battjunction, its a mans light and yu wont be wontin
hear me!
phos4
if fortysevens is anything like surefire, you may be waiting until 2012 and we know what happens next
would it be ok if i made a recommendation now?
get yourself the olight m20 warrior from battjunction, its a mans light and yu wont be wontin
hear me!
phos4
Sgt. LED
Flashaholic
Interesting.
Anyway......... the Catapult does seem nice.
Anyway......... the Catapult does seem nice.
Henk_Lu
Flashlight Enthusiast
Meanwhile, an SF-III from Arcmania would be nice! 
Hey, wait, that also will take another 8 to 10 weeks to be finished, so, forget about that idea... :devil: :devil: :devil:
Hey, wait, that also will take another 8 to 10 weeks to be finished, so, forget about that idea... :devil: :devil: :devil:
I bought an M21 because I was tired of waiting for the Maelstrom and I am a little disappointed. I like the beam profile and color, but I'm not happy with the overall brightness. I was hoping for something closer to the M30 output, but the M21 doesn't cut it in that department.
It is a very nice light, don't get me wrong, but when I look at the difference in output and throw between a Quark Turbo and the M21, and then look at the overall size difference between the two, the QT wins. I like the M21 enough to keep it, but it didn't quite live up to my expectations. So if you don't already have an M30, that's what I would recommend you consider.
It is a very nice light, don't get me wrong, but when I look at the difference in output and throw between a Quark Turbo and the M21, and then look at the overall size difference between the two, the QT wins. I like the M21 enough to keep it, but it didn't quite live up to my expectations. So if you don't already have an M30, that's what I would recommend you consider.
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Tom_123
Newly Enlightened
Given that there are not much details known about the Maelstrom,
I recon the Olight M21 would be the closest choice/alternative here.
(give or take 100 lumens and ½ inch)
But as I already bought the M21, I'm pondering now about getting a
P60 MC-E drop in for my Dereelight CL1H or a Solarforce L2p with the said drop in.
Those should make nice compact lights with a not too bad output.
I still hesitate though, because of the poor heat sink of P60 drop ins.
If compact size isn't the main demand, the Fenix TK30
might be an alternative as well.
A good bargain light with similar dimensions might be the Epsilon ED-P71/72
and if you like throwers, +1 for the Catapult.
I recon the Olight M21 would be the closest choice/alternative here.
(give or take 100 lumens and ½ inch)
But as I already bought the M21, I'm pondering now about getting a
P60 MC-E drop in for my Dereelight CL1H or a Solarforce L2p with the said drop in.
Those should make nice compact lights with a not too bad output.
I still hesitate though, because of the poor heat sink of P60 drop ins.
If compact size isn't the main demand, the Fenix TK30
might be an alternative as well.
A good bargain light with similar dimensions might be the Epsilon ED-P71/72
and if you like throwers, +1 for the Catapult.
uplite
Enlightened
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2009
- Messages
- 307
I'm jumping straight to HID. There are a bunch of handheld HID flashlights now that throw 3000+ lumens and are small enough to stow under the car seat. :thumbsup:
The more I think about it, the less I want an MCE light with just 500-700 lumens. I'll probably "downgrade" from HID to SST when a good cheapie is available. Probably from 4sevens. They already said they have a few thousand SST emitters...
-Jeff
The more I think about it, the less I want an MCE light with just 500-700 lumens. I'll probably "downgrade" from HID to SST when a good cheapie is available. Probably from 4sevens. They already said they have a few thousand SST emitters...
-Jeff
I'm jumping straight to HID. There are a bunch of handheld HID flashlights now that throw 3000+ lumens and are small enough to stow under the car seat. :thumbsup:
The more I think about it, the less I want an MCE light with just 500-700 lumens. I'll probably "downgrade" from HID to SST when a good cheapie is available. Probably from 4sevens. They already said they have a few thousand SST emitters...
-Jeff
The M21 uses a SST-50, and although I like the color and die size, it's just not being driven hard enough in the M21 to make its magic.
Illumination
Flashlight Enthusiast
Great thread. I've been asking myself this question for months. When the Maelstrom was delayed and the M21 appeared, that looked like the answer. Then people who got it started noting it was not as bright as advertised, and also complained of the size of the step-up in output from med (claimed 80 lm) to high (claimed 500 lm). in other words there should be something inthe 200 lumen range.
So now back to square one.
Maybe I should go back to waiting for the SF Optimus/Invictus.
So now back to square one.
Maybe I should go back to waiting for the SF Optimus/Invictus.
uplite
Enlightened
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2009
- Messages
- 307
500 lumens otf is a realistic limit for a small LED flashlight (1x18650 or 2x123) right now. Whether you use large die, small die, or multi-die...the efficiency is different, but not radically different. So the issue is heat dissipation.
I got a bit excited when 4sevens said they are showing a 2000-lumen g2-sized light next month. But they also promised a 700-lumen 2x123 light many months ago...so maybe it was meant as a joke.
At the moment, HID looks like the only way to get 3000+ constant lumens in a small package.
-Jeff
I got a bit excited when 4sevens said they are showing a 2000-lumen g2-sized light next month. But they also promised a 700-lumen 2x123 light many months ago...so maybe it was meant as a joke.
At the moment, HID looks like the only way to get 3000+ constant lumens in a small package.
-Jeff
Illumination
Flashlight Enthusiast
I think the issue is that people are saying that the M21 is materially less than 500 lumens at the emitter, let alone OTF. Looks nice though, maybe they will do a higher driven version in the future.
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I have no integrating sphere by which to measure the output, but I know current from the batteries is around 1A on high.
Henk_Lu
Flashlight Enthusiast
I don't have an M21, but a M20 Titanium, which should basically be the same.
Well, you buy Titaniums in first line because of the Titanium, the bling-bling and everything, the brightness comes in second place. It's strage, but if I spent 120$ for an M21 I'd be disappointed by the output, as I spent 2,5 times that amount on an M20 Titanium I'm not really disappointed... :shrug:
I like the beam. It is very floody, huge hotspot, very white, not discernable tint, not much artefacts. I would rate it at about 350 Lumen OTF. Medium is already very usable, high is very nice. I wouldn't compare it to a Quark, although those are also quite floody with XPG, the SST50 is another class, more flood!
I don't recommend buying it as a substitute for an MC-E, it can't just keep up to those. Think of it as an XPG+, that's the best description. The emitter is underdriven in the M21, it can do more, the Catapult shows that and Oliht will come with a K50 too, powered by 3x18650 it'ss probably show what an SST50 can do... If I was mean, I would say it can stand in the shadow of the SST90, the K90 perhaps.
As this is about a substitute for the Maelstrom, may I suggest the Jeatbeam M1X? :thinking:
Well, you buy Titaniums in first line because of the Titanium, the bling-bling and everything, the brightness comes in second place. It's strage, but if I spent 120$ for an M21 I'd be disappointed by the output, as I spent 2,5 times that amount on an M20 Titanium I'm not really disappointed... :shrug:
I like the beam. It is very floody, huge hotspot, very white, not discernable tint, not much artefacts. I would rate it at about 350 Lumen OTF. Medium is already very usable, high is very nice. I wouldn't compare it to a Quark, although those are also quite floody with XPG, the SST50 is another class, more flood!
I don't recommend buying it as a substitute for an MC-E, it can't just keep up to those. Think of it as an XPG+, that's the best description. The emitter is underdriven in the M21, it can do more, the Catapult shows that and Oliht will come with a K50 too, powered by 3x18650 it'ss probably show what an SST50 can do... If I was mean, I would say it can stand in the shadow of the SST90, the K90 perhaps.
As this is about a substitute for the Maelstrom, may I suggest the Jeatbeam M1X? :thinking:
Illumination
Flashlight Enthusiast
Do you know what that translates to in terms of lumens?
Do you know if anyone has emitter specs on the led bin used in the light?
The M20 reflector is quite a bit smaller in diameter, so I would think that would alter the beam profile.
Bezel-down clip isn't available as far as I know for the VX Ultra.
But I did see that...awesome if it was.
The Olight M20/21 interface I've already known by reading the instructions that it wouldn't work for me.
I gotta replace my previous flashlight (I'm considering asking for it back) as the Quark Turbo I got isn't perfect. QT is bright though!! Giving it to my father for his birthday.
But I did see that...awesome if it was.
The Olight M20/21 interface I've already known by reading the instructions that it wouldn't work for me.
I gotta replace my previous flashlight (I'm considering asking for it back) as the Quark Turbo I got isn't perfect. QT is bright though!! Giving it to my father for his birthday.
MattK
Flashlight Enthusiast
The M21 is 500L at emitter SPEC at the emitter - it's a simple function of current/spec.
OTF measurements vary; since basically no one has a calibrated sphere ($22K and up) we use pseudo calibrated lightboxes. Those measurements have been 325-375 OTF so ~350L OTF is very reasonable - remember component variation (circuit, LED, etc) means there can be a 10% output difference between units.
The M21 isn't driven harder because it CANNOT BE DRIVEN HARDER SAFELY.
2 x CR123A's simply cannot safely deliver more current. Any '2xCR123A' sized light that wants to be brighter, and stay safe, will have to use an 18650. It's not like Olight didn't want to drive the emitter harder - they did - but the batteries and the thermal mass of a relatively small light limit the drive current that can be used. The M21 is easily (outside of some customs I'm sure) the brightest light in it's size class.
If I had told you guys 2-3 years that we could offer you, for $120, a great quality, 350 OTF lumen light that runs for 60+ minutes on 2xCR123A's there would have been an epic stampede.
OTF measurements vary; since basically no one has a calibrated sphere ($22K and up) we use pseudo calibrated lightboxes. Those measurements have been 325-375 OTF so ~350L OTF is very reasonable - remember component variation (circuit, LED, etc) means there can be a 10% output difference between units.
The M21 isn't driven harder because it CANNOT BE DRIVEN HARDER SAFELY.
2 x CR123A's simply cannot safely deliver more current. Any '2xCR123A' sized light that wants to be brighter, and stay safe, will have to use an 18650. It's not like Olight didn't want to drive the emitter harder - they did - but the batteries and the thermal mass of a relatively small light limit the drive current that can be used. The M21 is easily (outside of some customs I'm sure) the brightest light in it's size class.
If I had told you guys 2-3 years that we could offer you, for $120, a great quality, 350 OTF lumen light that runs for 60+ minutes on 2xCR123A's there would have been an epic stampede.
Moonshadow
Enlightened
Must admit I'm a little puzzled too . . .
If I've understood correctly, the Maelstrom came about as the result of a thread titled Any hope for a 250~300 lumen MC-E 4sevens brand light?
Now Olight have actually gone and produced a 350 lumen light that's available now - I don't really understand why everyone's saying that they're disappointed
If I've understood correctly, the Maelstrom came about as the result of a thread titled Any hope for a 250~300 lumen MC-E 4sevens brand light?
Now Olight have actually gone and produced a 350 lumen light that's available now - I don't really understand why everyone's saying that they're disappointed
Matt,The M21 is 500L at emitter SPEC at the emitter - it's a simple function of current/spec.
OTF measurements vary; since basically no one has a calibrated sphere ($22K and up) we use pseudo calibrated lightboxes. Those measurements have been 325-375 OTF so ~350L OTF is very reasonable - remember component variation (circuit, LED, etc) means there can be a 10% output difference between units.
The M21 isn't driven harder because it CANNOT BE DRIVEN HARDER SAFELY.
2 x CR123A's simply cannot safely deliver more current. Any '2xCR123A' sized light that wants to be brighter, and stay safe, will have to use an 18650. It's not like Olight didn't want to drive the emitter harder - they did - but the batteries and the thermal mass of a relatively small light limit the drive current that can be used. The M21 is easily (outside of some customs I'm sure) the brightest light in it's size class.
If I had told you guys 2-3 years that we could offer you, for $120, a great quality, 350 OTF lumen light that runs for 60+ minutes on 2xCR123A's there would have been an epic stampede.
Totally agree with you. I respect and appreciate the fact that Olight is being responsible WRT choosing their drive currents for safety and reliability.
