Ra Disappointment

My background is that I have been a user of quality flashlights for a long time…… I started with SureFire lights when they were marked as "Laser Products". I also have lurked around this site on and off for many years (awesome site and information) but had little to say so I never joined until recently.

A few months ago I lost my beloved SureFire L1…… this was the low output original release version. I like this light and it was my most used depended on light. I loved the two light levels and the LED light source for durability. So, after a lot of research on this site ( It will be obvious not enough research on my part) I decided on the replacement HDS Systems: Ra lights, EDC Tactical 120.

When I received the light I was thrilled. The build quality was very good. I love the beam quality and the throw is impressive to me. The low is great and of course the programmability is nice, however I have not felt the need to play with that. The run time is very impressive and I also like the strobe feature. This seemed like a great "to hell and back" kind of light I was looking for. Trouble started when I started using it as my general carry / work light a duty that my old L1 had done flawlessly for many, many years.

Within the first week I noticed that the lens looked odd, kind of smudged. I actually did not think much of it other then I must have gotten something sticky on the lens and just kept using it. After a long day of working on my motorcycle and getting oil, grease, and grit on the BODY of the light, it needed a cleaning. I washed the light off with water then used dish soap. I did not scrub the lens, just lightly washed it with my towel. When I was drying off the light I noticed the major problem with the lens. The lens looked like it was delaminating in some way. I washed it again hoping it was just something on the lens, but I noticed I was making it worse! The change in the lens coating was getting larger the more I cleaned it. Off to the computer for some research……

I found that the Ra lights seem to have a fragile anti-reflective (AR) coating on both the inside and outside of the lens. After extensive reading I learned that the AR coating increases the light transfer by only a small %. I can live with a small decreased output as I think it would be unnoticeable in real world use. I have noticed when looking at the beam on a white wall I can see artifacts / slight shadows / imperfections in the beam, that I believe are caused by the imperfections in the AR coating. Again, in real world use these spots are not noticeable…..yet! After reading about other members experiences on the site I have concluded that if I got a replacement lens that I would also end up damage this coating also if it is as fragile. So, I think I am going to simply "let" the coating "wear" off and will enjoy the rest of this great light with out an outer AR coating.

Would I buy another RA again??? …………… not sure as I have gone nuts and purchased 8 other lights in the last few weeks and have discovered some new features in others that I like. I would defiantly have my Ra configured differently:

• I would get the Executive………. So it would tail stand… My surefires never did that and I have found that ability very nice…..
• I would like the flooder beam also. The spot is very focused but in MY world the flood would be more useful. I did not understand the power of the "new" LEDs.
• I would most likely spring for a higher lumens rating…… just because it is nice to have "more" and not need it, then to be in want of more light.

Unavailable features that would be great in a Ra
:
One thing I think would make the light even better is a slightly smaller size in diameter, as the shape is awesome.

This light would absolutely ROCK if it had a memory that allowed it to turn on to the last power setting used. That would make it the perfect go to light in almost any situation! I absolutely love that feature in my Nitecore D10 Sp.



My disappointment with the Ra EDC is that it was relatively expensive and it is advertised as a hard use light ("Efficient Utility, Rugged Character" ) yet the outer AR coating seems very fragile. I have NEVER had any of my other quality lights lens scratch or have a problem with the AR coatings. So, this is a great light as long as you understand the AR coating on the lens is not the lights most durable feature. Oddly, if I could only have one light to get me through a rough long night, I would take this one!

My hope in posting this is to help someone else have a better expectation about the durability of the lens and perhaps choose a better Ra light model for their use then I did. The overall quality of the build and the functions of the light are great.

klackey said:

This light would absolutely ROCK if it had a memory that allowed it to turn on to the last power setting used. That would make it the perfect go to light in almost any situation! I absolutely love that feature in my Nitecore D10 Sp.

Click to expand...

You can program the RA to work exactly like that. You just have to enable "momentary" and disable "Turn On Preset". Then it should work like you describe.
http://www.hdslights.com/Products/Clicky/ClickyUsersGuide.pdf

I washed the light off with water then used dish soap. I did not scrub the lens, just lightly washed it with my towel.

Click to expand...

Yikes ! Would you treat an expensive camera lens like that ? That's not the way to clean coated optics.

The good thing about the RA is that the lens is replaceable - so perhaps you can obtain a non-coated lens which would be better suited for use in a dirty environment.

It seems like the AR coating on the outside wouldn't do anything at all. Maybe just makes it easier to install correctly when assembling.
I wouldn't even worry about it.
Now if it started peeling off on the INSIDE....

Moonshadow said:

Yikes ! Would you treat an expensive camera lens like that ? That's not the way to clean coated optics.

The good thing about the RA is that the lens is replaceable - so perhaps you can obtain a non-coated lens which would be better suited for use in a dirty environment.

Click to expand...

yep. A simple solution is a cheapo microfiber glass lens cloth available at any camera shop.

The household towels have some excellent uses, they are good for dishes and cups, but spend a few dollars a get some lens cloth.

klackey said:

...the throw is impressive to me...After a long day of working on my motorcycle and getting oil, grease, and grit on the BODY of the light, it needed a cleaning. I washed the light off with water then used dish soap. I did not scrub the lens, just lightly washed it with my towel...The lens looked like it was delaminating in some way. ...I have noticed when looking at the beam on a white wall I can see artifacts / slight shadows / imperfections in the beam, that I believe are caused by the imperfections in the AR coating...I would like the flooder beam also. The spot is very focused but in MY world the flood would be more useful. I did not understand the power of the "new" LEDs...I would most likely spring for a higher lumens rating…This light would absolutely ROCK if it had a memory that allowed it to turn on to the last power setting used...

Click to expand...

Throw is generally the inverse of flood. If you like throw, don't expect a flood beam pattern. That said, my Ra Clicky Executive has a great all-purpose beam design. Ra Cn lights have a slightly narrower beam.

Getting oil, grease and grit on the light is the environment the Ra is designed for -- nothing wrong there. Washing it with soap and water is OK too. I've washed my Surefire T1A at least 20 times and just dry it with a towel (inc'l the lens). It also has a double-coated AR lens, and looks great.

I've similarly washed my Ra Clicky 5 times -- I don't baby it. The lens looks flawless.

Even if the AR coating is defective, it shouldn't cause distortions in the beam pattern. Whether present or absent, it can only affect transmission a few %. Variations of that amount aren't visible. You could question why even use AR, but that's another point.

My Ra has the most perfect beam pattern I've ever seen in a flashlight -- perfectly white, perfectly symmetrical, not the slightest inclusion or variation. The hotspot fades smoothly into the corona, then spillbeam.

If you see significant visual variations in the beam pattern, there may be something wrong besides AR coating. I suggest contacting Ra to discuss.

Re higher lumen rating, if you mean 170 vs 140, yet that is available from Ra, but visually it makes a small difference. It's not like horsepower. Your eyes are logarithmically sensitive to light. Visually, 170 lumens is only slightly brighter than 140.

Re memorizing the last brightness setting, the light can be programmed for that. Just check out the owner's manual, or post here if you have difficulty.

It's normal to be frustrated with imperfections in a new high-end flashlight. Don't give up! One benefit of companies like Ra and Surfire is their excellent customer support.

Just contact Ra, explain the problem and they'll take care of you.

For working on vehicles, I suggest headlamp -- much better than holding a flashlight in your teeth or free hand. See the headlamps sub-forum for suggestions.

I used to always clean my lens with the bottom of whatever shirt I was wearing and it never caused any problems:shrug:
Contact Ra. Maybe the coating on your lens is defective. I have always had prompt replies and customer service from Henry.

Oddjob said:

I used to always clean my lens with the bottom of whatever shirt I was wearing and it never caused any problems:shrug:
Contact Ra. Maybe the coating on your lens is defective. I have always had prompt replies and customer service from Henry.

Click to expand...

Bingo. Same here. Henry will take care of you.

Not all coatings are created equal, that's for sure. It's a shame the flashlight manufacturer's can't get a better quality AR coating, although it probably isn't needed on the outside of the lens, and a higher quality coating probably isn't cost effective.

That said I remember when I was working at a pro camera shop that was a Leica dealer, the Leica rep would come in and explain how the coating on their lenses was extremely tough and would take his car keys and rub them over the coating of the lens without a scratch.

He did that to his demo lenses, not ours.

The same happened to my lens, a couple days after getting the light, Henry quickly shipped another. I have used the lens for the last 8 months, never a problem again.

Moonshadow said:

Yikes ! Would you treat an expensive camera lens like that ? That's not the way to clean coated optics.

The good thing about the RA is that the lens is replaceable - so perhaps you can obtain a non-coated lens which would be better suited for use in a dirty environment.

Click to expand...

There are alot of things I expose my light to that I would never do to one of my camera lenses. I wash my clicky with soap and water too.

Sounds like a faulty coating. Contact RA and I bet they take care of you. A lens is too cheap to let a customer be unhappy.

+1 on giving Henry a shout. I have had a couple bad clicky problems and he has taken care of me very very quickly. I also wash my Ra's fairly frequently and have never had a problem with the lense they still look perfect. i was very upset when I also spent a lot on my 170 clicky and the switch was bad (my first RA). i said to mysef that I would never buy another Ra product and that was before purchasing three other Ra's. Henry will take very good care of you just give him and his lights a chance. Their awesome lights!

chef

Moonshadow said:

Yikes ! Would you treat an expensive camera lens like that ? That's not the way to clean coated optics.

The good thing about the RA is that the lens is replaceable - so perhaps you can obtain a non-coated lens which would be better suited for use in a dirty environment.

Click to expand...

If my light can't take a dish soap bath, it's getting sold. I wouldn't treat a flashlight like an expensive camera lens because it isn't one. I would treat it like a tool, because it is. Sometimes I wash tools with soap and water.

I replace most of my glass lenses with plastic anyway. The fine scratches in the polycarb or acrylic are unoticable to anyone other than a white wall hunter, and the impact resistance is much higher on my priority list.

I just made a posting in the lens-cleaning-thread on the theme :

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3190276&postcount=10

Wow! Thanks for all the responses.

I am VERY excited about ingokl post #2 AND Joema post #6 letting me know I can program the light to function with a memory. I will try that soon ……. Thanks.

I tried to very be careful to portray that I do like this light a lot, but was only really unhappy with the lens coating. I have NO other issues with this light at all. I also feel the AR coating is not a big deal just annoying and a disappointing flaw in such a high quality light.

As for seeing artifacts in the beam, it is very, very minor. If fact, I am not sure, if they really anything but my own eyes playing tricks. This light has the best beam I have ever used by far.

When I was researching lights I did find that Henry (HDS) stands behind his products. That was one of several reasons I bought the Ra EDC (US made, site supporter, great reputation, value, advanced technology etc). I did not try to contact Ra as I thought I would not waste his or my time and effort if the replacement lens coating is just as fragile. Now, after hearing that some of you have seemed to have had better luck with the AR coating on your replacement lens I might try that.

Again thanks for all the information.

I also like flood beam as a working tool. T1A is all flood, and has replaced my old EDC-Ultimate-80. It can be also used with rechargeable (IMR16340 from AW). Maybe worth considering.....