Poor Man's FM1909 ($1 bulb)

Hey all,

I just made an awesome discovery. Too cheap to pony up the big bucks for an FM1909 bulb (and other accessories required with purchase), I did some experimenting with some long life 6V bi-pin bulbs and three AW IMR 26500 in a Mag 2D with Kiu socket. I'm pleased to announce that my gut was right. The 2000hr Hikari 6V 20W G4 bulb, JC5607, like it's big brothers, can handle some serious overdriving.

On three 26500s measuring ~12.4V open pack after testing, this bulb was pulling ~5A with no and no complicated setup, just direct drive.

I don't know what kind of bulb life to expect pushing it so close to the envelope, but at just over a dollar a bulb, I don't care. At 60W of super white light, this setup is a Philips 5761 (and Mag85) killer at least for output.

(On a similar note, the 100 hour Philips 20W 6V G4, PH7388, unlike the 5761, can handle two IMR batteries at full open pack 8.4V and output appears slightly brighter then the 5761 driven at 7.9V without all the hassle of drivers or thermistors or battery conditioning.)

Where is this bulb for sale and where are the beamshots:whoopin:



Please:candle:



EDIT: I forgot to mention my FM1909 pulls 5.60A at the tail with 3 IMR C cells in a 2D hosts. No soft-start and just short spring mod with metal reflector and UCL lens.

oh huh. they're on ebay at pretty cheap prices.!!

search
Hikari Halogen 20W JC G4 6V FHE/ESB bulb

:thumbsup: Great detective work!!

Gotta get me a bi pin adapter next!!

Damn. What's it like running at 6 volts? Or 2 cells ?

You are defiantly not batting 60 watts tho.
From my experience, (I've done alot of "under load" voltage testing"
cells almost always drop to their rated voltage under average load.
Heavy load, is going to drop is less then that. At least 3.6v a cell.

In your case at about 5 amps . . . I'd say abotu 45 - 50watts.

Still, that a hell of an Overclock.

It's because of this voltage sag that you can do things like this.
Sometimes by time that bulb has juiced the battery for the current it needs, the voltage sags to much it runs into normal operating perametres, lol. Where as a less bulb will .

It reminds me of an experiment I did, and also a similar discovery I made.

The experiment was; I decided to try a 2.4 volt PR bulb using a 3.2volt Lifepo4 battery. I figure, 2 alk D-cells are 3.0v, 0.2v over shouldn't blow it.
But
This is what prompted me to do the under load experiments.
Turns out a pair of weakling Alkaline cells will sag down to 2.4 - 2.8 volts with even only a pitiful PR bulb. Not even krypton.
On the other hand, when loading the "LiFE" cell with a higher output 2.4v Krypton bulb, about 0.9amps, it sagged just enough that the bulb could handle it.

The similar experience I have was; years ago I bought these Miner headlamps from a surplus store for $5 each. No battery.
They came with these oddball 4v 1.25a Halogen HPR bulbs.
Within their rated voltage they were rather dim so I never took them very seriously until just recently.

After reading about overdriving on CPF, and doing my voltage sag experiments, I decided to take a leap of faith and whak this little bulb with 6.6volts off a pair of LiFE cells. I was reluctant to do so, cause they are so oddball, I figured I'd "collect" them. But I have 2 so why not.

Sure enough, it took it like a champ, and bam. 9.6watts, with output matching a Mag Charger.
I've done various runtime tests. And been using the bulb in various flashlights almost like an EDC for the past 2 weeks. Still no

I want more of this bulb to run in my Fultons that I power with 2x 26650 LiFE cells, but the funny thing is, I can't find out what bulb it is. Nothing seems to match it. Closest I can find is the HRP44 @ 1amp.
Even the manufacture website of the headlamp specifies the HRP44.
So I ordered a couple of HPR44's to try and see if they are the same.

What you have discovered is pretty kick ***.
I did search, I can grab a 10 pack of your bulb off ebay.

Might be a good option for me in a Mag85 as the WA bulb is hard for me to get. I'm in Canada. Unless its on Ebay or I can get it from a CPF member I'm SOL unless I want to pay $20 for shipping off the supply websites you guys know and love.

Watch about a year from now people are raving about Mag mods using your bulb

kramer5150 said:

:thumbsup: Great detective work!!

Gotta get me a bi pin adapter next!!

Click to expand...

Kramer5150,

I just purchased the 10 pack from Ebay and at $14 dollars they are a bargain, even if all I get is 10 hours:laughing: I am not saying if it will get 10hours just pocking fun at the likely scenario


Well get that bi pin kit because I got 2 or more pro-bono comming your way.

bigC

I have a mag 3D bipin light I can part with cheaply if you need one kramer.. it'll even include a 10.8V (9 cell nimh) battery pack .. which you can charge with a hobby charger..
all you need to do is supply a better reflector as the one i have in there is uglyyyy.

I ordered some Hikari JC-5043 bulbs recently.
They are 12v and pull about 4 amps when pushed to 20v, outputting 4,000 lumens.
Pushed to 104w, they are pretty white, about 5000-6000k.

BI PIN adapter INCOMING!!!

I'm thinking a mag 3D host + 3x26650 cells... hopefully no
Better add some borofloat to the mix.

How close is this setup to melting the OEM mag PR tower?

thanks Craig for the offer... let me scope everything out, I am leaning towards IMR-Lithium cells right now.

Techjunkie said:

(On a similar note, the 100 hour Philips 20W 6V G4, PH7388, unlike the 5761, can handle two IMR batteries at full open pack 8.4V and output appears slightly brighter then the 5761 driven at 7.9V without all the hassle of drivers or thermistors or battery conditioning.)

Click to expand...

I think this is the same bulb used in the Ultrafire WF-500.

pill assembly:
Link1

Bulb
Link2

WF-500
Link3

IMHO paired with IMR 18650 cells, this is one of the better DX lights, incan or LED. The switch quality is questionable, although being a twisty it should be able to handle the current.

bigchelis said:

Where is this bulb for sale and where are the beamshots:whoopin:

Click to expand...

I got mine from Bulbtronics for $1.15 each.

Conte said:

...
You are defiantly not batting 60 watts tho.
From my experience, (I've done alot of "under load" voltage testing"
cells almost always drop to their rated voltage under average load.
Heavy load, is going to drop is less then that....

Click to expand...

Have you ever done any load testing with AW IMR26500? I have experimented with them plenty, and I'm telling you, under ~5A load there's barely any sag at all. These things can sustain massive load unlike any other battery I've ever seen. Conservatively, I'm seeing 50+ Watts, probably more like 55+.

kramer5150 said:

...(I'm thinking a mag 3D host + 3x26650 cells... hopefully no
Better add some borofloat to the mix.

How close is this setup to melting the OEM mag PR tower?

Click to expand...

I went with the three AW IMR cells and the 2D host for two reasons. 1: that much light from a little 2D is freaky fun. 2: I trust the AW 2300mAH 26500 cells to sag less under load than the Batteryspace 4000mAH 26650 cells.

I'd recommend going with a Kiu tower instead of the plastic mag post and bi-pin adapter. This sucker gets plenty hot. I'm using plain DX/KD glass by the way.

kramer5150 said:

(Speaking of the PH7388) I think this is the same bulb used in the Ultrafire WF-500...

Click to expand...

Actually, the PH7388 is the same bulb used in the WF-600. DX recently began selling the WF-600 lamp for use in the WF-500 assembly. (That's how I discovered it.) The original WF-500 filament is smaller and gives tighter focus, but less output.

csshih said:

oh huh. they're on ebay at pretty cheap prices.!!

search
Hikari Halogen 20W JC G4 6V FHE/ESB bulb

Click to expand...

Searched ebay this morning but couldn't find anything like this at all?

Edit: OK, Google helped out - found the ebay listing which has ended. There were only 5 units. :-(

Edit #2: Per LL's post here, and the post above by Techjunkie (which I missed when I read this thread ealier ) they are available at Bulbtronics for $1.15 each.

Edit # 3: Do you think that this bulb be a near-optimal replacement (i.e using 8xAA) for the discontinued WA1166 whoops, WA1164 - albeit considerably brighter than a Mag66 whoops I meant Mag64?

kramer5150 said:

I think this is the same bulb used in the Ultrafire WF-500.

pill assembly:
Link1

Bulb
Link2

WF-500
Link3

IMHO paired with IMR 18650 cells, this is one of the better DX lights, incan or LED. The switch quality is questionable, although being a twisty it should be able to handle the current.

Click to expand...

Thanks for those links! I have a WF-500, and these bulbs look much better than the stock ones. Just ordered me a few!

Kestrel said:

Edit # 3: Do you think that this bulb be a near-optimal replacement (i.e using 8xAA) for the discontinued WA1166 - albeit considerably brighter than a Mag66?

Click to expand...

I'm not familiar with the specs of the WA1166 and I don't have access to Lux's charts right now (proxy), but I can say this, before going full blast with three IMR, I tried this bulb with only two or two plus a C sized NiMH which is comparable to running it on 8AA. It was still impressive, probably in WF-500 territory, but only half as bright if even that much as on 3 IMR cells. Basically, this bulb is completely underrated at 6V until you consider the 2000hr life estimate at that voltage.

Whoops sorry I meant the WA1164 / Mag64, not the 66.

Edit: OK, Google helped out - found the ebay listing which has ended. There were only 5 units. :-(

Click to expand...

Lol, yeah, Probably sold out due to a sudden raise in demand after the release of this thread.

Have you ever done any load testing with AW IMR26500? I have experimented with them plenty, and I'm telling you, under ~5A load there's barely any sag at all. These things can sustain massive load unlike any other battery I've ever seen. Conservatively, I'm seeing 50+ Watts, probably more like 55+.

Click to expand...

I haven't worked with IMR's yet. I have a selection of LiFe cells which are just as robust, if not more. I actually did some testing on them after this post, out of curiosity. And yeah, 50 - 55 watts sounds about right.

I've noticed that when you overdrive a bulb just right its Lumen per Watt ratio increases a bit, making it seem brighter then its power consumption.
Like referring to my experience with the HPR44 bulb running at 9.6 watts that matches an 11watt MagCharger bulb.



Have you tried running the bulb at just 6 - 6.6 volts ?

Conte said:

Have you tried running the bulb at just 6 - 6.6 volts ?

Click to expand...

I tried it at 8.4-9.6V open pack and it was still plenty bright (about half as bright) but a much warmer color. I would not recommend it for lower voltages. A 100hr bulb that can't handle this level of overdrive will certainly outperform this bulb at 6V (ex. 5761). For 8.4V, I'd recommend the PH7388.

Cause I run Lifepo4 cells I run alot of 6volt rigs.

I'm actually trying to find myself the poormans magcharger bulb.
I find that 11watter hits the sweet spot for my everyday use.
Good balance of output and runtime.

Techjunkie said:

Hey all,

...I did some experimenting with some long life 6V bi-pin bulbs and three AW IMR 26500 in a Mag 2D with Kiu socket. [/I]

Click to expand...

New to this, so excuse me if I'm asking something obvious. Never built, modded a light, but got an itch. I was looking into getting AW's Mag D Incan Driver, (so no need for the Kiu socket, correct?) and 3 of his IMR 26500's.

Secondly, this will fit a 2d host? Will I have to mod the spring some? Add a metal reflector and a glass lens and I'm good?

I'd like more of a thrower, but not ready for the $ on a deep heads yet...