Coast P14 vs LEDLenser P14?

sidster1011

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John_Galt

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Coast and LED Lenser are the same company.

I believe Coast is mostly marketed here in the states, but LED Lenser is Europe.


Coast lights are not generally liked here. I personally dislike them because of a few reasons...
1) they are expensive for what they are.

2) They can only use alkaline batteries (they specifically warn against using Lithium or Ni-MH rechargeables). Using Lithium or Ni-MH batteries voids their "warranty". This is because the light are not regulated. Don't fall for the "Power Chip" nonsense. Most of the lights use a resistor to limit current to the LED. Because they only have a resistor, not a Driver, as in other lights, they have to use bad battery arrangements, such as 3 or 4 AAA's in plastic holders, to provide enough voltage to light up the LED. They rely on the inherent internal resistance of alkaline batteries to drop the voltage to safe levels for the LED, when on.

2-A) Because the lights are not regulated, and because they require poor alkaline cells, these lights will appear bright for a moment, then dim for a long period of time. An equivalent priced light from Fenix, Quark, Nitecore, etc. will be regulated for a much longer period of time. In fact, Fenix has astounding efficiency (70+ hours on 2AA Lithium, at 10 lumens, which is very usable).

3) They are not well heatsinked. Basically, in most of their lights, there is no thermal path between the LED and the body of the light. People think that that is great, because then the light doesn't get warm with prolonged use, but it is in fact, a bad thing. It means that the heat the LED produces is not being moved away from the LED, and that, combined with higher than normal voltages for the LED, due to a lack of a driver, can severely shorten the lifespan of the LED.

4) They are not waterproof. The design of the focusing system requires air to be displaced, or it wouldn't focus.

4-A) Here's some background on focusing. It isn't really necessary with LED's. Because they are a bright point-source emmitter, and not a glowing coil, it is much easier to design reflectors that will produce a tight, far-throwing hotspot, and a large, bright "corona" or "spill." You may be looking at Coast/LED Lenser b/c they focus, but it isn't really necessary. Old style incandescent lights, such as M@g-lites offered the "focusing" feature to hook customers, and make up for the horrendous beam of their lights. A M@g does not flood, and it doesn't throw. You may want to look at a fixed focus light, it will have much higher efficiency at transferring lumens produced to lumens out-the-front.

Personally, I have tried many of the lights in the store, and seen beamshots here. My dad even has one. I don't know what tint/bin of LED they are using, or if it is a phenomena caused by their focusing optic, but each of their lights just seems to spread a pallid fog of non-useable light. It turns everything pale, deceased gray, and gives me a headache. None of my other lights do that.

Oh, and, :welcome:
 

sidster1011

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Thank you for the information. To be quite honest, I was surprised to find a forum like this - glad to see that I'm not the only one that has a flashlight fetish.

I can't believe how much information this site has. I got a headache yesterday looking through the articles.

I agree there is a grayer shade of light in the LL lights. For some strange reason, I prefer to have the light spread out evenly - this was one reason why I chose it. The focus out mode tends to brighten everything equally. I bought the p14 from fry's after 30 minutes of reviewing it and the Inova lights.

To be quite honest, after finding this site, I am no longer limiting myself to just this flashlight. :sweat: :broke: I read a little about the Fenix lights and think that might be my second purchase.

This place is filled with people that will get me hooked. It's also filled with people that could (probably) help me get through the addiction. :grouphug:
 

JaguarDave-in-Oz

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2-A) Because the lights are not regulated, and because they require poor alkaline cells, these lights will appear bright for a moment, then dim for a long period of time.
I have P7 and P17 LedLensers using alkalines and they must be not working right cos they both stay hell bright for a goodly long time, not just a moment.

Interestingly I find my P7 and P17 focus into beams that I find extremely useable. In fact, one of the things I dislike intensely about my Fenix TK20 is that it has a decent hotspot that stretches to a reasonable range but the extra light around it (the spill) is just wasteful and distracting when trying to use the torch at any decent distance. That's why I find the P7 and P17 so useful, all the light is focussed into a single solid beam with no wasted light being thrown out into nowhere land.

Horses for courses I guess, but I can assure you that not everybody finds them useless, foggy or has problems with the fact that they are unregulated. The price, on the other hand, well that's definately an issue, it's certainly an expensive torch in Australia.

Plenty of discussion on the the P7 in the review section of this forum of late and most of what was being discussed there would apply to the P14 (a torch which I'd actually love to have bought but I got the feeling that it would be just a bit fat for me in every day use).
 

Dark Laser

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Well, LedLensers are just...different :shrug:. You've got to like them - or not. Sometimes (and especially when it comes to flashlights) you can't decide rationally...CPF is the best example lovecpf

I don't like them very much at the moment (though I have older models - former they had real (design) innovations and good/better ideas), not because of their performance, but for the marketing strategies they have. And especially the prices they want for their lights, even though they cannot hold their promises such as their lumen specs. A good example is my brother's P7 - it gets blown away in total output by a 20€ tecxus Rebellight (rated at 100lm - with driver :laughing:).

@John_Galt: from my experiences, Mags throw as hell :shrug:. I assume you mean the "smaller" ones, not the 4D upwards? If so, you are perhaps right...
 

John_Galt

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@ Dark laser...

I mean the old, incandescent style ones. They "throw" alright, but only a couple inch in diameter circle of light.

I have not had a chance to use a new LED one, but a friend of mine has one, and he says it throws phenomenally well...

My problem with Mag's is that they either provide a circle of "light with a big darkspot in the middle, or the unusably tiny hotspot. The older incandescent versions created no side spill, as most LED lights do today (and, from beamshots of LED Mag's, they do now).
 

JaguarDave-in-Oz

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My problem with Mag's is that they either provide a circle of "light with a big darkspot in the middle, or the unusably tiny hotspot. The older incandescent versions created no side spill, as most LED lights do today
Perspective's a funny thing isn't it. From my personal perspective, those aspects you find un-useable are the very points that endeared maglite torches to me in the first place. I mean the flood with deadspot wasn't real crash hot but it was liveable since flood to me is barely a once in a blue moon necessity whereas that very tight beam was used all the time and allowed me to see a lonnnng way and I thought it was great (still have my 25 year old 4D that I cherish). Same goes for my P17 LedLenser, shine it in the sky and it shows near enough to a parallel edged shaft of light like a light sabre which means the thing can identify an object a long way away.
 
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Dark Laser

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This is exactly what I like about Mags, too. And call me insane, but I think the big donut flood mode rocks :rock:. This is nearly unique in the flashlight world - and it nicely completes and strengthens the floodlight of my Fenix lights. Ever saw it with a overdriven 6-Cell bulb? When focused, it really produces a even usable laser beam :devil:.
 

sidster1011

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Well, it's been a couple of weeks now and, regardless of what the thoughts are about the P14 here, I've managed to impress some of my Mag neighbors. :)

Not only that, I think I've created a craze on my street now. Folks are out to out-do me.

Little do they know of my CPF secret. MMWWAAHHHAHAHAHA!!
:sssh:

Looking forward to the :whoopin:
 

phantom23

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2) They can only use alkaline batteries (they specifically warn against using Lithium or Ni-MH rechargeables). Using Lithium or Ni-MH batteries voids their "warranty".

2-A) Because the lights are not regulated, and because they require poor alkaline cells, these lights will appear bright for a moment, then dim for a long period of time.

3) They are not well heatsinked.

4) They are not waterproof. The design of the focusing system requires air to be displaced, or it wouldn't focus.
You're talking about old models which are :ohgeez:Newer ones (P series) are better designed.
2) Many people use Ni-MHs in their Led Lensers and nothing is happening (lower voltage doesn't increase brightness, Ni-MH chemistry gives almost flat regulation).
2-A) Have you seen runtime graph? Because I did and it looks at least as good as direct driven 18650 light. Using Ni-MHs regulation is even better!
3) They are good enough for the current.
4) Actually they are. Yes, water gets into focusing system but nothing happens. Emitter is sort of sealed!
 

hyperloop

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You're talking about old models which are :ohgeez:Newer ones (P series) are better designed.
2) Many people use Ni-MHs in their Led Lensers and nothing is happening (lower voltage doesn't increase brightness, Ni-MH chemistry gives almost flat regulation).
2-A) Have you seen runtime graph? Because I did and it looks at least as good as direct driven 18650 light. Using Ni-MHs regulation is even better!
3) They are good enough for the current.
4) Actually they are. Yes, water gets into focusing system but nothing happens. Emitter is sort of sealed!

That is great to hear as i own a P14 myself and do not intend to let go of it.
 

Egsise

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You're talking about old models which are :ohgeez:Newer ones (P series) are better designed.
2) Many people use Ni-MHs in their Led Lensers and nothing is happening (lower voltage doesn't increase brightness, Ni-MH chemistry gives almost flat regulation).
2-A) Have you seen runtime graph? Because I did and it looks at least as good as direct driven 18650 light. Using Ni-MHs regulation is even better!
3) They are good enough for the current.
4) Actually they are. Yes, water gets into focusing system but nothing happens. Emitter is sort of sealed!
1) Nope
2) True, but still LL forbids it, they are just evil to do so without any cause.
3) True if you use alkalines
4) Nope, water gets to the battery compartment too.

For Average Joe the LL P7 and P14 are certainly a good choice, direct driven and designed to use disposable alkaline batteries.
No sudden darkness and no hassle with lousy rechargeables.
Water resistance is good enough for normal use.
Price... HA-II tube, lens, a few resistors, unknown led... Do I hear 40$, no? 30$, anyone? 20$? C'mon people these are really really good flashlights developed in the German flashlight institute, let me shine this thing to your eyes sir isn't it bright, yes only 80 bucks for this state of the art flashlight thank you very much please come again.
 

JaguarDave-in-Oz

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For Average Joe the LL P7 and P14 are certainly a good choice, direct driven and designed to use disposable alkaline batteries.
No sudden darkness and no hassle with lousy rechargeables.
Water resistance is good enough for normal use.
Price... HA-II tube, lens, a few resistors, unknown led... Do I hear 40$, no? 30$, anyone? 20$? C'mon people these are really really good flashlights developed in the German flashlight institute, let me shine this thing to your eyes sir isn't it bright, yes only 80 bucks for this state of the art flashlight thank you very much please come again.
I can't speak personally for p14 ownership but I'm certainly a very average joe with a P7 and those good things listed about it are all good thigns. I've got plenty of use and runtime out of Duracell alkalines in my year of use and I never go swimming with a torch so it's as water proof as I'll ever want.

The other more sarcastically mentioned aspects? - Well, I have no wish to know what specific electrical componentry is inside any of my torches nor do I care to differentiate between resistors, IC's, diodes and the like since to my uneducated eye they are all just miniature electromaggurggens of one type or another one finds in a component catalogue.

I can't see one electromaggurggen being worth much more than another anyway so whether the builder chooses one teensy tiny component over another makes no difference to me in terms of whether I think a torch is worth more or less than another brand or type.

I'm not a torch technophile, I'm far more interested in the torch's case and the beam that shoots out of it. Is it bright? Well actually all brands seem to be. The shape of the beams seems to me to be where one falls down against another, not the actual brightness. Do they run a long time? Well they all seem to when one considers how bright they all are.

In practice in the field I can't seem to find a way to tell the difference in efficacy between any of my supposedly "regulated" torches and the P7. I turn em on, they illuminate my target, when they get too dim to see the target I change batterioes. ALL my torches seem to do that, regulated or otherwise.

I'm either dumb or such feautures just don't make a difference in my usage pattern. It's just like knowing whether my computer has a pentium or a whatsamagoogle, it gets the job I want done efficiently, what componentry it does it with, I don't care frankly I'm not smart enough or aware enough to tell which one has what.

As to the "quality" of the P7 well there's three parts to quality for me, the light that comes out the front, the solidity of the case itself and the reliability of the unit. My P7 torch stays hell bright for a long time so point one, check. The case/body of the P7 appears to be strong, smooth in the hand, aesthetically shaped with no silly ridges or changes of diameter in the main body, everything fits tightly into a solid feeling unit and until I came to this site I never knew (and still don't yet care) what is HA-II and what is not since they all to me just look like black aluminium. Sure, some of the black paint has worn off my P7 on its edges but the case doesn't appear to be in danger of wearing through to the point of the batteries escaping captivity yet (and not for a couple of centuries use by the look of it) so point two, check. The torch has operated for a year being dropped, battered and used with not a single glitch so point three, check too.

Judged using my criteria it sounds to this particular member of the great unwashed to be as good a quality unit as any of the other torches I've come across and my unfortunate experience with buying five other brand torches in an attempt to try to replace the P7 (I wanted to get rid of the need for buying AAA's) seems to adequately demonstrate to me that even though it has a higher price, the P7 is well worth it and of better quality. My P7 is the only LED torch I've bought that didn't require some work on arrival or in service to "make right".

Yep, for this joe average it's high priced compared to some other torches but worth it. Mind you, I guess it ain't really that expensive when looked at comparitively in the real world. For the price of a tank of fuel ($1.35 a litre in my town) for a number of my jaguars I can buy one and a third P7's so a P7's price is basically throw away money anyway.

That all said, I reckon it could do with some improvements like a clip, a switch that was not so easily bumped on and a lock of some sort to ensure the head stays held at the focal point I set it to. The battery size was abig problem for me but I can't complain about it having triple A's anymore since I've just gone out and got some Imedion rechargeables and a Maha C9000 to charge them with so that solves my biggest gripe, the cost (and the sometimes scarcity) of batteries to feed it.

I've managed to convince myself that the P7 still does it for me over my TK20, Quark AA2, Fenix L1D wiht 2xAA tube and Nitecore D10 (though the D10 is pretty damned impressive for such a little guy). It sure looks like I'm in the minority in this forum on the internet but I've never actually met anyone out here in the sticks with a P7 that doesn't love it.
 
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hyperloop

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Got myself a P14 and P5 and i like 'em, freedom of choice is the way to go :D glad you're liking your P7, as long as you like it, that's all that matters doesn't it?
 

JaguarDave-in-Oz

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Too right mate, as long as mine works for me it don't matter what anyone else buys.

I just thougth I'd offer a bit of a perspective from someone who isn't a "collector" or technical "afficionado" cos in many cases people like me approach torch decisions differently to many "flashalholics" on here and sometimes view quite different things as important. It may be useful to someone looking in to see whether a P7 might suit his needs since I feel that there's a lot of negative stuff simply based on "technical theory" said about them on here that clouds whether or not they might really suit a particular person in real life or not.

In reality I have a whole bunch of LED torches simply because in the end I've found that the only way to test whether a product is going to work for me in my particular environment and usage habits is to buy one and try it since everyone else's opinion relates to how they use it and that's invariably different to me. I love my P7 as it comes closest to my ideal tool in the way I use it but honestly I don't think anyone's yet made the torch that's really perfect for me, if only I could mix and match features from different brands.......

It's just like with cars, they've never made the car that suits me one hundred percent which is possibly why I've owned nearly two hundred of em over my lifetime trying to find the one car that fits my needs exactly but like torches I just end up running three or four different ones at any one time.
 
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d2eux

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holy cr#p, now you've done it. Looks like I'm going to have to shell out for a new torch just to see what they are like.
good luck if you can find it. so far Ive been only able to see it at UK and Korean online stores. For the UK stores its 64 pounds, roughly 100 big ones.

There's also a "M14", which on one ebay.co.uk store says is "waterproof", which is really hard to believe
 

JaguarDave-in-Oz

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I'm sure it won't take tooooo long to get. Australia is already a very popular export destination for Led Lenser products so we'll no doubt get the new ones soon.......

I'm not too worries about waterpoof-ness, the current ones are plenty resistant to the amount of water I expose mine too. The lockable focus is what I'm really looking forward to (probably would help water resistance too actually) as it will help when I'm shooting over it.
 
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