Quality Ranking of Manufacturers?

Hi all - and Happy New Year to you!

As a newbie to this arena, I have been trying to absorb as much as possible here at CPF (full disclosure - I was a lurker for about a year before I joined). In that time, it appears to me that SureFire rates as the top level mainstream manufacturer as to quality (never any doubt it is going to light when you click). There are a number of manufacturers just below SureFire: OLight/Jetbeam/?. A next level including EagleTac/Fenix/?. Then the DX level of lights.

Would anyone care to make corrections to my observations and give me their thoughts on how the various mainstream manufacturers rate as to quality. And I don't mean to slight Henry, but I do not consider RA as a mainstream manufacturer. I realize he manufactures a quality light, but it is not what I would consider mainstream.

Sorry for any ambiguity. I know what I mean - can't you read my thoughts? :sigh: Thanks for taking time to ask and let me clarify. Okay - I have been asked to further clarify "quality" in my question. So, here goes: quality = Lexus. The relentless pursuit of perfection. Great ergonomics, unquestioned functionality, top notch materials and execution, built to last.

Thank you all - this is a wonderful forum lovecpf !

Whats your definition / criteria for quality?
Your first paragraph "never any doubt it is going to light" seems more like a discussion of reliability and robustness of design.

Might want to define this a little up front, otherwise everyone will be defining quality on their own different terms... leading you in circles.

kramer5150 said:

Whats your definition / criteria for quality?
Your first paragraph "never any doubt it is going to light" seems more like a discussion of reliability and robustness of design.

Might want to define this a little up front, otherwise everyone will be defining quality on their own different terms... leading you in circles.

Click to expand...

i agree, a quality 'made' light might not allways work. a bad machining and finishing job dosnt mean they didnt fit the best switching and superclear 10mm glass lol. needs clarifying

I'm sure your intentions are good, but this type of thread can end up causing controversy and being very divisive.

For example there have been hundreds of threads where major fireworks have erupted between those that perceive Surefire as being by far the highest quality mass manufacturer and those that perceive Surefire as riding on a reputation that they think is overblown.

Unfortunately attacks between these 2 different camps become personal very quickly and the threads are usually locked by the moderators as a result.

I would say that apart from Deal Extreme and Kaidomain, where products are very hit and miss corresponding to the cheap price-point, that most of the mass-manufacturers put out reliable products with reasonable quality.

Reading the reviews of these products is (in the Reviews forum) is probably the most constructive way of determining things for yourself.

This has the potential to head south quickly. I'm sure a mod has their finger on the "Closed" button.

I'll tip toe up to this one. In my overly generalized opinion...

Surefire, Ra, and Peak (along with custom makers) are about as quality as you can get without getting to the "luxury" lights.

Fenix, Olight, 4sevens, Lumapower, Dereelight, EagleTac, etc. are all nice quality Chinese made lights.

DX-style lights are all about "you get what you pay for" level of quality.

Then you have your brick-and-motor platic eveready wal-mart $1.99 lights.... uhhhhggg.

There's my take... nit-pick and disect away.

What easilyled said +1!

Reading through the many posts in the subforums is not only constructive & educational but also a real joy.

EasilyLED - I understand, and my hope was to avoid that type of flaming.

It's just that after being on this forum now for about a year, I perceive that there are definite strata when in comes to where the majority of readers place manufacturers when it comes to quality. If you note in my edited OP where I attempted to further define "quality," I did not mention anything about being leading edge. For SureFire, that is not a key customer quality indicator. Their customers trust their lives to their lights and are willing to pay the price to get that. As you noted, those same customers aren't going to do that with anything from DX/KD. All the other manufacturers fall somewhere in that range. I'm just trying to get a better idea of where that is.

Thanks

I can only judge quality by the lights that I own...

So, in my personal opinion :

1 - Surefire
2 - Quark (very, very close to Surefire quality; almost a Surefire from overseas)
3 - Fenix

People say that Novatac are very good too, but I can only tell about my lights.

It´s curious to mention the only light that I had problems with was my Surefire L1... but I still believe their construction quality is awesome!

I think your question is quite controversial. Have a look at this, IMO everyone has different perceptions as demonstrated in that poll.

Personally my preference (in terms of quality) would be:
1. SureFire (great quality, least bang for buck)
2. Jetbeam
3. Fenix
4. 4Sevens (great bang for buck, but its aesthetic design is not that great. I've only owned 4Seven's Quark Ti series, and seriously, their machining standards are not that great, although good bang for buck)
5. Eagletac (good output, but a lot of sharp edges on my M2XC4 Neutral, meaning things have not been well thought out, not the standard of a true premium flashlight brand)
6. iTP (good bang for buck. From experience, for what it does, its actually even better than its mother company, Olight)

note: i didn't have Maglite in the list, its because i believe Maglite belongs in a different era.

blinkjr said:

Hi all - and Happy New Year to you!

As a newbie to this arena, I have been trying to absorb as much as possible here at CPF (full disclosure - I was a lurker for about a year before I joined). In that time, it appears to me that SureFire rates as the top level mainstream manufacturer as to quality (never any doubt it is going to light when you click). There are a number of manufacturers just below SureFire: OLight/Jetbeam/?. A next level including EagleTac/Fenix/?. Then the DX level of lights.

Would anyone care to make corrections to my observations and give me their thoughts on how the various mainstream manufacturers rate as to quality. And I don't mean to slight Henry, but I do not consider RA as a mainstream manufacturer. I realize he manufactures a quality light, but it is not what I would consider mainstream.

Sorry for any ambiguity. I know what I mean - can't you read my thoughts? :sigh: Thanks for taking time to ask and let me clarify. Okay - I have been asked to further clarify "quality" in my question. So, here goes: quality = Lexus. The relentless pursuit of perfection. Great ergonomics, unquestioned functionality, top notch materials and execution, built to last.

Thank you all - this is a wonderful forum lovecpf !

Click to expand...

I really think most lights are very well made now, but I will add my favorites for what I considder to be a ultra reliable light.

1 Any Fenix T series. I have had a T1, TA30, TA21 and a TK12 I would have no worries about trusting my life to any of them...tied with these is the AE 3AA Q5 dive light.

2nd to these I would put any Surefire Led light that does not simply use the p60 drop in. I only rate them 2nd because while I have had 2x e2L's and one e2dL, there are not any 200L full size SF led lights. Also, I have not had perfect luck with Surefire's waterproofness...but they do not claim waterproofness either. They are still great lights and I always have high confidence in them.

If you guys only knew lol, most of the Chinese lights are made with the same/similar components and the body's cut in the same factories ect ect. I consider most equal or better in quality to anything made in the world today, only so much you can do to a flashlight to make it better. I really dont think one manufacture stands alone in quality, most of my customers say brighter is better. I might have to kick myself for answering to this thread

FlashlightsNgear.com said:

If you guys only knew lol, most of the Chinese lights are made with the same/similar components and the body's cut in the same factories ect ect. I consider most equal or better in quality to anything made in the world today, only so much you can do to a flashlight to make it better. I really dont think one manufacture stands alone in quality, most of my customers say brighter is better. I might have to kick myself for answering to this thread

Click to expand...

That is no surprise to me at all. Quite obvious really looking at how the designs look so similar between different brands.

It is apparent from looking at the reviews, that just like with Surefire, some models stand out compared to others.

The Jetbeam M1-X, for instance, has mainly very positive comments.

This is why in trying to answer the OP's original post, I commented that it is probably more constructive to look at the review threads
rather than trying to set up some kind of ranking system.

What would really make me laugh is if it was discovered that Surefire have an offshore factory (in China) to manufacture their parts
these days.

I think its a fair question, but could use some more clarity so.....

What is quality anyway? :thinking:

Im guessing you are referring to:

"Quality, a degree or grade of excellence or worth" :thumbsup:

That narrows it down a little, but we still have many different aspects with which to grade quality using the definition above.

Depending on your personal background, intended use and preferences, the "quality" will be a sum/combination of all these factors, with more importance/weight given to the factors you prefer/need.

When you are a cake maker, the quality of the cake is influenced by the ingredients,the final baking process, decoration, serving and even matching the cake to the event.

With flashlights....
A quality diving light, may in fact be bright plastic & large whereas a quality LE light may be baton shaped, solid metal & rechargable. I have a personal opinion that quality "is not equal to" plastic, but thats just my crazy opinion.

The end result though, is the finished recipe.

Keeping things fairly simple, I think we can still grade the quality of the flashlight ingredients,
some of which include...

Reliability of use,
Quality (excellence) of Components (eg reflector, glass, driver, switch)
Toughness
Asthetics/Design/Finish
Ergonomics/User Interface
Brightness
Heat Dissipation
Runtime
Packaging
Guarantee
Support
Company Stability
Accuracy & Honesty of Specs

But, remember to keep in mind, different people will place different importance on different ingredients, in addition to the fact that quality is subjective and defined/limited by our experiences.
What we thought was a cool, slick, mobile phone 10 years ago, is an oversized brick by todays standards. Good quality is defined/limited by our existing idea of good quality (even if in reality its poor quality)
As new advances are made, our expectations are raised.
Quality is in flux! Much like lux, the bar is pushed higher and higher.

So, here's the trick....
1) Decide what QUALITIES you most value in a flashlight
2) Buy flashlights that overperform on those QUALITIES

As the CPF'ers said, search the reviews, to find the lights that match, and you'll be on fire

Best of luck
tgwnn

Alright - I throw up my hands in surrender! I thought I was asking a fairly benign question to see if there was a somewhat general consensus on a quality ranking of the manufacturers discussed on this forum. I know there are a great number of threads discussing various manufacturer's flashlights, but those are, for the vast majority, about particular lights – not the manufacturer in general. The only manufacturer I repeatedly see mentioned for their "quality" (word used be posters) is SureFire.

I was hoping to have a discussion about where other manufacturers, in general (not specific lights), compare to SureFire in the minds of members. Again, I'll make reference to automobiles. If you want a car that is unquestionably reliable and gives you a great driving experience, most people are going to go with a Lexus. They are willing to pay the price to get those qualities. Others may value performance above all and are therefore willing to put up with the idiosyncrasies (and shop time) of a Ferrari or Lamborghini. Still others may not be willing to pay the cost and will accept a light made by a lesser (in their opinions) but still acceptable quality manufacturer.

I understand that it is impossible to say "this is the best light" as only the user can determine that. I am quickly coming to understand why members have such a collection of lights. It's like having a set of tools in the toolbox. You can't use a hammer to screw in a screw…well, at least you can't if you want the screw to perform as intended! Similarly, a 1XAAA keychain light is not going to satisfy the need for, say, an MX2.

So, I will ask any moderator who might be reading this to go ahead and close this thread. I will continue to enthusiastically read the reviews of the many wonderful members (selfbuilt, csshih, ernsanada to name but a few) and learn from them. And I will attempt to curb my appetite to acquire vast quantities of lights! lovecpf

I ask for your forgiveness for my transgressions. :mecry:

@blinkjr

You are too polite!

How about a slight rephrase on the question?

What qualities do you most value in a flashlight?

For me, its generally small size, max lumens, no fuss UI and of course, reliability.

tgwnn

No need to be apologetic, its the nature of a technical forum... details-details-details.

Your question is a valid one, just list (say) 3-4 criteria that defines quality in your eyes. Cosmetic finish, machining fit, beam quality, screw thread feel and fit....etc...

Your first criteria clearly is reliability. How about two more?

FlashlightsNgear.com said:

If you guys only knew lol, most of the Chinese lights are made with the same/similar components and the body's cut in the same factories ect ect. I consider most equal or better in quality to anything made in the world today, only so much you can do to a flashlight to make it better. I really dont think one manufacture stands alone in quality, most of my customers say brighter is better. I might have to kick myself for answering to this thread

Click to expand...

I for one do strongly believe all the Chinese lights, even the higher end ones come from one maybe two different build houses. Of course they will never admit to this, but thats the only way they can maximize profits at such low production volumes.

shrug

Kramer & no_name - okay, I'll give your idea a try. Even though there are more than 3-4 factors that I think go in to someone's idea of quality.

Anyway - let's go with reliabilty, ease of use, ergonomics, & fit/finish.

Thoughts? And thanks again everyone for letting me "refine" this thread. :twothumbs

blinkjr said:

Kramer & no_name - okay, I'll give your idea a try. Even though there are more than 3-4 factors that I think go in to someone's idea of quality.

Anyway - let's go with reliabilty, ease of use, ergonomics, & fit/finish.

Thoughts? And thanks again everyone for letting "refine" this thread. :twothumbs

Click to expand...

Surefire & McGizmo & Arc win at that one. Peak maybe, too, but I'm not convinced of ergos.

carrot said:

Surefire & McGizmo & Arc win at that one. Peak maybe, too, but I'm not convinced of ergos.

Click to expand...

As far as Peak and reliability go, they are pretty up-there. I got a 7 LED Kilimanjaro in Stainless Steel. I put a Energizer Lithium AA in there. How you gonna kill that? Even if one or two LED's go out, the other ones keep going. It's fully potted electronics. Reliable twist switch too. Apart from a missile hitting this thing, there's no practical way to kill this thing.

Sorry for the Peak speech... just trying to get Peak it's due credit. LOL

p.s. If I didn't love my Kilimanjaro so much, I'd video torture tests on it. I still may do that anyways... we'll see.