Quark Mini AA Neutral White--Some Observations

MarkW

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After playing indoors and outdoors with my new Quark Mini AA neutral white, here are some mostly subjective observations on the beam and related issues that might be important to a potential user:

(Fully charged Eneloop used throughout)

The Mini AA neutral reveals colors well, indoors and especially outdoors. I did not have a cool white Mini to compare it to, so used my Petl RXP headlamp on comparable lumen settings. To my eye, the neutral tint Mini AA presents a significantly improved, more three dimensional image than cool white, with better color clues to help identify objects-- very useful in an outdoor landscape (walking through brush, or on uneven ground,for example); not as important for indoor navigation or task work, where the settings are more familiar and predictable.

Indoor Note: for close-up, short term work, I might actually prefer the cool white--but for long periods of time, I find the warmer (neutral) tint friendly and easier on the eyes.


Back outdoors: GREAT wide spill, but spot a bit too tight and with too abrupt a transition to be IDEAL for walking/running. This is obviously a personal preference thing, but my wall test, confirmed by a jaunt outside, indicates spot diameter does not reach 2 feet until about 8 feet out from the emitter. When shining it at the ground in front of one's feet, the spot is closer to 1 foot in diameter. Because the spill is reasonably bright on both medium and on high, this does not result in a pronounced tunnel effect, but it would be nice if the spot were wider. It is really not an issue on high, because the spill is plenty bright and it is not necessary to shine the spot near one's feet to see the ground well. The problem is on medium, which --of course--is the preferred mode if long runtime is needed, as on a night hike. Probably high voltage 14500s would improve the beam on medium, but again at the cost of run time,


Interestingly, I found that on low, the beam was fine for navigating a totally dark garage: with no competition from ambient light (moonlight, streetlights, etc.) and on a smooth floor, the spill from the low setting was ample for walking about and the narrow spot not particularly distracting.

Flip side: the narrow spot is quite good outside when using the light on more distant objects. On high beam, and even on medium, what I would call useful illumination is projected out to a distance of about 100 feet. ("Useful"= Is that a bush or a bear lurking at the next bend in the trail??). The Mini spill lights up the foreground/ intermediate area well, and the spot gives nice definition to objects 30+ feet away.

So: as an extremely lightweight supplement/backup to a floody single-AA trail light like the zebra h501, the Mini AA neutral would add a lot of range with optimal color rendering, and the advantage of interchangeable batteries. Nice backpacking combination.

Others have commented at length on the form and mechanics of the Mini, and I have little to add here except to say that for a very small, almost weightless light, I found the ergonomics quite good.

One Conclusion: The neutral Mini AA is tantalizingly close to being a great super lightweight outdoors light. Nonetheless, in my mind it is a legitimate question whether the color/3-dimensional image improvement of the neutral tint is worth the loss of an apparently broader spot and more lumens in the cool white version. Certainly depends in part on how exactly one will most use the light. Since I don't have a mini AA cool white version to directly compare to, I can only conjecture-- But even if I had both, there would be a problem. Outdoors, I don't really WANT to sacrifice the color advantages of the neutral version to get better beam balance. I just want an improved beam. In short, I would like my cake and to eat it too.

How about someone slightly altering the reflector/emitter combo in the mini AA so I get neutral white PLUS a broader spot diameter and smoother blend of spot and spill? Or it might be that a Mini with a neutral R5 (!) would accomplish this without any reflector change???

Hmmm. 4Sevens, here's hoping. . .

And i hope this subjective, somewhat disjointed, and obviously not comprehensive assessment is useful to someone. I got tired of searching multiple threads for this sort of info. Perhaps others can add their impressions to the data/opinion base. Some mini AA neutral vs mini AA cool white beamshots would be helpful-- but IMHO can't resolve the REAL issue: Design the flashlight for the neutral beam, instead of just switching the LED! (And yes, "if wishes were horses. . . etc. etc. :))
 

gunga

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I've got a few of these coming. I'm sure if you wait till mid to late next year, when neutral XP-G are available, you will be seeing the floodier light you desire in neutral with more output.

Can't wait to get mine.

Thanks for the observations!
 

pobox1475

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Thanks MarkW. I have a neutral Ti AA coming and it should work out fine for me. It will be a pocket light when larger EDC torches are not convenient to carry. Going to feed it an AW protected 14500 and intend to use mid mode mostly and high only when max illumination is needed for short time durations. Since I have a few lights that will throw a beam wider and farther the inability to run max for long periods is not necessary as a pocket light that will often be used for up close and personal duty. I agree with you in the H501w Mini AA combo.

:thumbsup:
 

cave dave

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I use a variety of diffusers when I want a better transition or wider beam. The textured write-right sounds like what you want for a very mild smoothing effect.
 

MarkW

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The textured write-right sounds like what you want for a very mild smoothing effect.

Yes, good point. I have thought about trying some Write-right, just wish i could try it on the inside instead of the outside of the lens. This might be my next project. . .
 

lightsandknives

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I use a variety of diffusers when I want a better transition or wider beam. The textured write-right sounds like what you want for a very mild smoothing effect.

I just cut a piece of frosted tape and put on my AA and it smoothed out the beam nicely. I may have to find some write-right and give it a try.
 

pjandyho

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Could someone point me the link to write-right? I am not in the States or maybe I have been ignorant about what is available in my home town but I have no knowledge what write-right is actually.
 

MarkW

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Could someone point me the link to write-right? I am not in the States or maybe I have been ignorant about what is available in my home town but I have no knowledge what write-right is actually.

WriteRight is an inexpensive, stick-on translucent plastic screen protector material made for digital cameras and other devices with lcd screens. Apparently the newest, perfectly clear versions are not as good as the original, lightly textured versions for diffusing flashlight beams. However, the textured version is still available from a few sources, although I am not sure that it is still being manufactured. This is a link to what I believe is some of the good version, currently being sold as new old stock on Amazon. There is also some on Ebay, but most of the Ebay listings are the newer version. You might be able to find a local source. There is some discussion of its merits in various threads in this forum--these would be worth checking out, as I have not tried it yet myself. Hope this helps. Link: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00005BHWI/?tag=cpf0b6-20
 

pjandyho

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OMG! This is embarressing! I am a digital photographer myself and I have no idea about this screen protector. Thanks for the tip though.

And thanks to MarkW for the write-up. I am still awaiting the NW MiNi AA to hit my mailbox and I am all excited about it. I believe it should have a somewhat similar tint and beam profile as my Quark 123x2 neutral white, maybe a little wider in flood.
 

B0wz3r

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Back outdoors: GREAT wide spill, but spot a bit too tight and with too abrupt a transition ...

How about someone slightly altering the reflector/emitter combo in the mini AA so I get neutral white PLUS a broader spot diameter and smoother blend of spot and spill? Or it might be that a Mini with a neutral R5 (!) would accomplish this without any reflector change???

Hmmm. 4Sevens, here's hoping. . .
Design the flashlight for the neutral beam, instead of just switching the LED! (And yes, "if wishes were horses. . . etc. etc. :))

This is why I chose a NiteCore EZAA in neutral white for my EDC keychain light instead of a QMini. The EZAAw has a narrower cone of light and less brightness differences between the hotspot and spill areas of the beam. I call this a "combo-beam" because it makes the lighted area more uniform or "floody", and also gives a good amount of throw. It would be nice to have the extra middle level, as the EZAA's only have two, a low and a high, but I find the low setting to be sufficient for 90% of the things I end up using my keychain light for.
 

recDNA

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Anybody have any idea how many lumens in the warm white AA and CR123 Minis?
 

cave dave

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Anybody have any idea how many lumens in the warm white AA and CR123 Minis?

Not sure but i did do a ceiling bounce compared to a Warm White Ra Clicky. The Ra is calibrated to produce the specified Lumens.

Mini AA using eneloop.

The Mini AA on max was just slightly dimmer than the Ra at 72 lumens level.
The Ra burst mode (100 lm) was noticeably brighter than the MiniAA on max.

I'm estimating around 60 to 65lm for max for mini AA on Nimh.

PS on a LiIon 14500, the Ra is blown out of the water so its hard to estimate a lumen value. Since the Mini AA is not rated to use LiIon I don't plan on using it in this configuration.
 
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B0wz3r

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Anybody have any idea how many lumens in the warm white AA and CR123 Minis?

According to 4Sevens website the output levels in lumens are exactly the same for the cool white and neutral white versions of the Mini AA. I couldn't find any disclaimer on their site about lowered output of the neutral white model like there is for the limited run neutral white regular quarks.
 

Morelite

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According to 4Sevens website the output levels in lumens are exactly the same for the cool white and neutral white versions of the Mini AA. I couldn't find any disclaimer on their site about lowered output of the neutral white model like there is for the limited run neutral white regular quarks.
The disclaimer is above the specs, the spces for the neutral white have "(cool white specs)" in the paragraph above. There is no specs stated anywhere for the neutral white.
 

B0wz3r

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The disclaimer is above the specs, the spces for the neutral white have "(cool white specs)" in the paragraph above. There is no specs stated anywhere for the neutral white.

This is true for the neutral white version of the limited edition of the regular Quark AA model, but I see no such disclaimer on the page for the neutral white mini AA.
 

Morelite

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I see what you mean, but it does state "cool white version" after the words "max output"
 

cave dave

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According to 4Sevens website the output levels in lumens are exactly the same for the cool white and neutral white versions of the Mini AA. I couldn't find any disclaimer on their site about lowered output of the neutral white model like there is for the limited run neutral white regular quarks.
That info is available somewhere in the 600 posts of the neutral white Mini AA intro thread.

Both the Q3 5A3 (aka Neutral white) and cool white R5 bin Mini's are run at the same drive levels. The Q3 bin used in the Neutrals is not as efficient as the R5 bin. Using the flux bins info located in the Cree data sheets I calculated the Q3 bin should be ~68% the brightness of the R5 bin. This would give a max lumens of 61 lumens for the Q3 5A3 "Neutral-white" Mini AA.
 

pjandyho

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Just got my neutral white MiNi AA tonight and even though I was informed that it is going to be slightly dimmer than the cool white version, I was still slightly disappointed by it's output. Maybe I am asking for too much but having owned some other AA lights that output more lumens, I expect the MiNi AA to perform.

Remembering that David from 4sevens did mentioned that the MiNi AA to be capable of running AW's 14500, I tried it. It works and is much brighter but it got very hot after 2 minutes. The heat did stay consistent after about 5 to 6 minutes but the lens is all fogged up due to the intense heat on the bezel. The fogging only disappears after the light cools. I don't see this when running the AA alkaline except with a much lower output.

Now I am wondering what is going to happen to the Ti version of the MiNi AA that I just ordered if I were to run the AW 14500 in it. Since titanium has much poorer heat conductivity, I am thinking if the LED would be damaged by the intense heat generated using AW 14500.

Anyone owns the 123 version? Does it get very hot when used with primary batteries?
 

cave dave

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...

Now I am wondering what is going to happen to the Ti version of the MiNi AA that I just ordered if I were to run the AW 14500 in it. Since titanium has much poorer heat conductivity, I am thinking if the LED would be damaged by the intense heat generated using AW 14500.

Anyone owns the 123 version? Does it get very hot when used with primary batteries?

Neither of the mini models are compatible with LiIons. This was updated on the intro thread (see below) in the marketplace, but it seems like a lot of people missed that info. They have also failed to update the med runtime for the Mini AA on their own webpage even though they know it is incorrect.

Important Update 12/24
Hey everyone,

Couple important clarifications concerning the Minis:

1. The manual incorrectly specifies RCR123 compatibility. Actually, the thermal design of the Mini only supports 3V. The circuit is okay for lithium-ion but temperature becomes a problem. Typically, on low and medium modes it is okay, but the thermal design is not meant for more than 3V batteries on high. Future manual batches will reflect this (i.e., they won't state RCR123 compatibility).

2. The manual incorrectly specifies that the Mini AA runs for 18 hours on medium. This is a typo. The correct runtime is 8 hours on medium.

Peter
 
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