R2 vs R5?.

I have a R2 in my solarforce L2. I have seen a R5 drop in but it claims it only puts out about 150 lumen im sure the R2 is brighter than this (200+) so whats the advantage to the upgrade if it puts out less lumen and dosent throw as far from what ive read?.
Thanks.

The XP-G lineup is much more efficient than the XP-E or XR-E lineup. Consequently, they also have a larger die, which means a floodier beam.

Better battery life, 1) because of the lower forward voltage of the XP-G, and 2) because of less current draw from the batteries. I think Henry from HDS Systems puts it best..."Each lumen becomes more expensive than the last to produce..."

John_Galt said:

The XP-G lineup is much more efficient than the XP-E or XR-E lineup. Consequently, they also have a larger die, which means a floodier beam.

Better battery life, 1) because of the lower forward voltage of the XP-G, and 2) because of less current draw from the batteries. I think Henry from HDS Systems puts it best..."Each lumen becomes more expensive than the last to produce..."

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info but how much in a drop in lumen would you get from an R5 compared to R2?.
Has anyone any links to the xp-g line up.

Horse's Mouth would be a good place to start:

http://www.cree.com/products/xlamp_xpg.asp

Clarification of which package you are referring to would be helpful.

Cree's have at least 4 different types:-

1) XRE
2) MCE
3) XPE
4) XPG

I am assuming that you are referring to 2 different packages:-
Your "R2" output flux is probably referring to the XRE package.
Your "R5" output flux is probably referring to the XPG package because to my knowledge they are not available in that output-bin for the XRE package yet.

As "R5" is a higher output bin than "R2", then given the same drive-levels ie.
current supplied to these emitters, the R5-XPG would produce more overall light than the R2-XRE.

It would not necessarily throw that light further though. In fact because the XRE package has a narrow and tighter beam angle of emission, its quite likely that even coupled with secondary optics the R2-XRE will throw further than the R5-XPG at similar drive-levels.

So really, you need to understand a little about the differences in the packages and also what current the different drop-ins are driven at before you are in a position to make an informed decision.

easilyled said:

Clarification of which package you are referring to would be helpful.

Cree's have at least 4 different types:-

1) XRE
2) MCE
3) XPE
4) XPG

I am assuming that you are referring to 2 different packages:-
Your "R2" output flux is probably referring to the XRE package.
Your "R5" output flux is probably referring to the XPG package because to my knowledge they are not available in that output-bin for the XRE package yet.

As "R5" is a higher output bin than "R2", then given the same drive-levels ie.
current supplied to these emitters, the R5-XPG would produce more overall light than the R2-XRE.

It would not necessarily throw that light further though. In fact because the XRE package has a narrow and tighter beam angle of emission, its quite likely that even coupled with secondary optics the R2-XRE will throw further than the R5-XPG at similar drive-levels.

So really, you need to understand a little about the differences in the packages and also what current the different drop-ins are driven at before you are in a position to make an informed decision.

Click to expand...

Yeah i was talking about an xre R2 vs a xpg R5.
So if im running this on say one single cr123 i should get more lumen with the xpg R5 and better run times but as i know less throw?.
Is that correct.

No, you can have a trade off...

The same output, for longer, with less throw (if using same reflector), or more output, for the same period, and less throw (if using same reflector).

nutzz said:

Yeah i was talking about an xre R2 vs a xpg R5.
So if im running this on say one single cr123 i should get more lumen with the xpg R5 and better run times but as i know less throw?.
Is that correct.

Click to expand...

Its correct that in exactly the same light the R5-XPG should produce a higher overall lumen output than the R2-XRE.

Throw is more complicated because it depends a lot on the type of secondary optic that is used to project the beam.

By secondary optic I mean something like a reflector or a Fraen optic, for example.

These need to be well matched to the light source in order to harness all the light being emitted (ie. the correct focal length is important.)

The design of the optic will also determine the nature of the beam, whether it is floody or more of a spot-like beam for longer distance projection.

I am sure that a secondary optic can be designed specifically for the R5-XPG with either flood or throw in mind.

For instance I have read in the marketplace that the company called Dereelight have now changed their light source in the DBS V3 from an XRE to an XPG and redesigned their reflector for this specifically.

The Dereelight DBS V3 is renowned for throwing well and in the marketplace it is claimed that this change does not affect the throw adversely.

In smaller lights with small reflectors, I think its quite likely that the XRE will out-throw the XPG, but its unlikely to be by an amount that is significant enough to affect the application that the light was intended to be used for.

The Haiku is a good example of this.

In the McGizmo forum, Don (McGizmo) has replaced the XRE in his Haiku with an XPG-R5 for a new wave of Haikus with accompanying new reflectors.

He has measured a greater overall output but slightly less throw in these soon-to-be released Haiku-XPGs.

As the Haiku was not intended to throw very long distances, this slight sacrifice in throw is not important and the overall higher output is probably
more advantageous.

I hope this answers your question.

Thanks for that reply help make more sense.
Just to take this a bit of subject how many lumens does anyone think a SST-50 operate voltage 2.8 - 4.2 and operate current 450ma - 750ma.
In a L2M using 3.7v cr123 1200mah single cell.
Do you think i could get more than 250 lumens?.Will be also using a ucl lens?.

Good timing on this thread. I just today received an XPG R5-WC drop-in from Kaidomain and swapped it out with the original XR-E R2-WC in an Ultrafire 501B host.

I haven't been sble to do an outdoors test yet since it just got here, but I did do the "dark closet" and "beam spot on the wall" tests. Here's my quick take:

- The XPG R5 does have a more diffuse hotspot than the R2. Some of it is the reflector design IMO, since the emitter is slightly recessed behind the base of the reflector. I suspect there is some light scatter back there, too.

- The R5's hotspot is about 80% larger than the R2's, and there is no "donut" artifact with the R5 like with the R2.

- Spill appears to be about the same as the R2, but a good dark back yard will confirm that.

- Both emitters are WC color bin, but the R5 appears a little whiter to my eyes when beamed side-by-side onto a white wall.

- Both modules have OP reflectors of the same size and general design, although the R2's emitter seems to be mounted more flush to the reflector.

- While the R5 is rated at 400 lumens (as compared to the 250 lumen rating of the R2), I sincerely doubt it's anywhere near that output. I don't have test equipment to back that up, but my eyes tell me it just ain't 60% brighter. Maybe 20%, which would put it somewhere around 275-300 lumens.


All in all, the R5 module in the 501B will make a nice addition to my collection, and I'll retire the R2 until I get another host for it. The 501B with the R2 has been my all-time favorite flashlight until now, but the R5 module may well take its place. I'll know for sure after dark!

Hope this helps.

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nutzz said:

Thanks for that reply help make more sense.
Just to take this a bit of subject how many lumens does anyone think a SST-50 operate voltage 2.8 - 4.2 and operate current 450ma - 750ma.
In a L2M using 3.7v cr123 1200mah single cell.
Do you think i could get more than 250 lumens?.Will be also using a ucl lens?.

Click to expand...

If you supply 750ma to an RPG-R5, I think you'll have close to 200 out-the-front lumens, perhaps a little more.

McGizmo is driving his Haiku at around 600ma and measured 185 lumens.

Check out the IS Sphere thread MrGman has.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/229135&page=7

We now have a tested and confirmed 306 OTF lumens from a P60 drop-in XP-G R4 made by Anto. He will sell them for $45 and will offer the production run with an XP-G R5. I think another 25~50 lumens may be possible. The LED is driven at 1.4A with a single li-on cell.


R2/Q5 P60 drop-ins like Malkoff and Dereelights made 200~230 OTF lumens.

XP-G R4~R5 like Nailbender XP-G R4, Thrunights XP-G R5, And Anto R4, have made 265~306 OTF lumens.

Please note that Nailbender is getting north of 300 OTF lumens because he used a Fivemega 3C Hosts powered with 3 NiMH C cells. So, if you like a P60 drop-in and can tollerate a bigger hosts like the Fivemega C compatible ones you will get more lumens.

In fact, in our testing with Mrgman we gained nearly 200 OTF lumens from a Nailbender P7 P60 by simply swaping the drop-in into that big 3C hosts too. So, It is very believeable that Nailbender is getting such awesome numbers with the XP-G R4 using the fivemega 3C hosts. As other already mentioned the R2 will have superior throw.


bigC

^ So maybe this confirms my seat of the pants estimate of 300 lumens from an XP-G R5 driven my 2xRCR123A's.

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Mike_TX said:

^ So maybe this confirms my seat of the pants estimate of 300 lumens from an XP-G R5 driven my 2xRCR123A's.

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Click to expand...

So,
Far we only one has tested at 300ish OTF. I have in my hands the Dereelight XP-G R5 P60 drop-in, which I got from Craig for testing in MrGman IS Sphere. Moday; we will know if this one also makes 300ish OTF or all steam.:sick2:

bigC

R2 VS R5

Output will be higher with the R5 all things being equal .
The R2 will throw further , but have a narrower beam .
The R5 will be more flood but not throw quite as far as the R2 , you may lose 25% throw or more depending on the reflector . But you will make up for this by lighting up more around you .

A good R2 should do 220 - 250 Lumen [ and possibly more if its a real good one ]

A R5 should do 280+ Lumen , very much dependent on flashlight itself .
http://www.picturegood.com/image-487E_4B46A7FD.jpg

Pictured is my P60 host with a XP-G R5 in it , and it sits on right about 300 as pictured .

I have seen where claims of 400 are being made , and I did order such product to see if its BS , but then people are claiming 2A current ?
Still not arrived .

old4570 said:

R2 VS R5

Output will be higher with the R5 all things being equal .
The R2 will throw further , but have a narrower beam .
The R5 will be more flood but not throw quite as far as the R2 , you may lose 25% throw or more depending on the reflector . But you will make up for this by lighting up more around you .

A good R2 should do 220 - 250 Lumen [ and possibly more if its a real good one ]

A R5 should do 280+ Lumen , very much dependent on flashlight itself .
http://www.picturegood.com/image-487E_4B46A7FD.jpg

Pictured is my P60 host with a XP-G R5 in it , and it sits on right about 300 as pictured .

I have seen where claims of 400 are being made , and I did order such product to see if its BS , but then people are claiming 2A current ?
Still not arrived .

Click to expand...

I am glad you mentioned R5's driven at 2A because the AA P60 drop-in XPG-R4 from Nailbender went DD on me. It made 3.5A at the tail and held that current to as low as 3A when the AA Tenergy cells were at 1.21v. This puts the current at the LED at around 1.8A and the OTF lumens suffered. I sent it back to Nailbender for a regulated drop-in, not direct drive and able to run off 2 AA Tenergy cells. Here are the results and keep in mind that at 5 minutes the Javeling 2 AA hosts was hot, the bezel and the cells were also hot. In this case more current was less lumens.
Nailbender XP-G_R4 DD,______207__turn-on____________2AA Tenergy NiMH_____Dereelight Javelin 2AA size Host,
Nailbender XP-G_R4 DD,______198__30 sec,____________2AA Tenergy NiMH_____Dereelight Javelin 2AA size Host,
Nailbender XP-G_R4 DD,______185__60 sec,____________2AA Tenergy NiMH_____Dereelight Javelin 2AA size Host,
Nailbender XP-G_R4 DD,______169__120 sec,___________2AA Tenergy NiMH_____Dereelight Javelin 2AA size Host,
Nailbender XP-G_R4 DD,______120__180 sec,___________2AA Tenergy NiMH_____Dereelight Javelin 2AA size Host

Wow , that sags hard .





Mine draws 1.61A with two AA's pictured , 2.54v [ measured at tail ] or 4Watts .
And very little sag / XP-G R5 and 1A buck boost driver
Host is a generic 9P [ 501c ] and I got it as it has far less bulk than a L2

Wow, nothing scientific here, but I just did the dark-backyard test with two otherwise identical Ultrafire WF-501B's, one running its original XR-E R2-WC ad the other running my new XPG R5-WC - both on 2xRCR13A's.

The difference is stark - the new XPG R5 is much more floody, while the R2 is a distinctly superior thrower. Both will light up trees 50 yards away very nicely, but while the R2 puts a spot on them, the R5 illuminates almost the whole tree.

The point is that I didn't realize how much more flood the R5 has until I could test it at distance and in some darkness. But these are now very different flashlights and I like that. The 501B body and size is perfect for me, and to have two of them so different is nothing but good.

To the OP - if you want a powerful FL with a wider beam pattern and smooth hotspot, go for the R5. For more throw and reach and more distinct hotsot, get an R2. You really can't go wrong with either one IMO, but the choice is yours.

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Can anyone post a link to a good p60 R5 drop in?.
Thanks.