Old Don Mcleish two stage cap plus a Malkoff head = ???

pangris1

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So, I'm getting back into flashlights and am playing the what if game.

I have an old McLeish two stage tailcap intended for a first generation SF L4.

If I bolt that up to a E2 body and put a VME with a Malkoff M60LL, what would happen?

Will I actually get a two stage light, bearing in mind that the Mcleish unit has the circuitry in the switch?

ETA -

Or, even better yet - put the McLeish on an E1B body, with an M30W??

Inquiring minds...
 
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gswitter

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It can work with a Malkoff drop-in, but how well it works will be dependent on the value of the resistor in the tailcap, the voltage of the battery and the voltage that the Malkoff driver drops out of regulation. Malkoff even sells a resistored, 2-stage retainer for his MD2 light that works the same way.

Since you mention the L4, the resistor in your tailcap is probably a 22 or 30 ohm. It should work with an M30* or M60*, but the difference between the resistored low level and the "high" of the M60LL (for example) might not be all that significant.

Edit: I've used one of those 2-stage tail caps (60 ohm, if I recall) with an M60.
 
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pangris1

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Thanks very much for your reply.

OK, so if I have the tailcap and figure I might as well use it...

Malkoff or otherwise, assuming the switch is using a 22 or 30 ohm set up - what would be the best head to use with it to optimize the low/high set up?

I'm not versed in the technical side to the point that I can translate what a 22-30 ohm really means - would it potentially allow for one of the TLS heads rated for 256 lumens to be a 256 with a low stage? Or better optimized for another Malkoff head?

If it would make more sense to use it against a much brighter lamp to get it to drop out of regulation... that would be good.

I hate being a n00b. Sorry for all the questions. I'm a moderator on glocktalk and bayoushooter and I feel like one of those guys who comes in asking what he needs to do to stop shooting low and left and what hollowpoints to put in his clips... thanks for your patience.
 
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gswitter

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No problem. Someone had to explain this stuff to me, too.

As far as best head to match with that switch... like most things, it depends on your wants/needs.

These 2-stage switches work by adding a resistor to the circuit to limit the current to the LED. To roughly calculate the low output for the switch, you can determine the current (in amps) by dividing the battery voltage (in volts) by the resistance in the switch (in ohms). Then look up the output of the LED for that current.

For a Malkoff M60 being powered by two CR123A's using your 2-stage switch:
6V / 22ohm = .273A (or 273mA) or
6V / 30ohm = .200A (or 200mA)
Substitute 7.4V and recalculate if running off two rechargeable cells.

For a M30 powered by a single CR123A using your 2-stage switch:
3V / 22ohm = .136A (or 136mA) or
3V / 30ohm = .100A (or 100mA)
Again, substitute 3.7V and recalculate if running of a rechargeable cell.

As far as I know, current M60's and M30's use Cree XR-E Q5 emitters. The graph on the XR-E spec indicates a Q5 will put out (very roughly estimated):
85 lumens @ 273mA
70 lumens @ 200mA
55 lumens @ 136mA
45 lumens @ 100mA.
I'd personally go with the lowest low and highest high possible, so for the Malkoffs, I'd probably opt for an M30. I've never tried this particular set-up (I don't own an M30), so I'd verify with someone that a 2-stage switch will work with that drop-in. I suspect it will though.

Some of the lower output M60 drop-ins probably won't work with your switch because even at the restricted current, the driver won't drop out of regulation. You also want the normal output of the drop-in to be sufficiently above the estimated low for your switch. You need roughly a 4x difference in lumens for it to appear to be twice as bright to your eye.
 

McGizmo

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A faulty memory coupled with no experience with the Malkoff heads (at least relative to the question) precluded any constructive or instructive responses. Age is just part of the problem. :nana:

I felt the answers could come from those on CPF in the know and it appears they have. :D
 

pangris1

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For the record, I probably should have said...

"5-6 year old McLeish 2 stage L4 switch" rather than "Old Don McLeish"...

but at least a few people got a chuckle in.

I'm going to give it a try - whats the worst that can happen?
 

Chrontius

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Burn out the resistors on the switch?

But hey, then you can replace them with ones that work, if the board's intact.

If you're now not brave enough to try, how much do you want for the switch? :nana:

Okay, I kid. I talked to Gene Malkoff waybackwhen, and he said it'd probably work fine on the M60, but all bets were off with his then-current P7 modules due to the relatively ridiculous currents that pulled.

Edit: anyone know where I can find a McE2S somewhere?
 

pangris1

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Is there any way to figure out which resistor is in my McE2S?

I take it they are out of production... :nana:

I'm open to putting this on whatever light it will provide the best results with - one cell, two cell...

I have an E1B host body that I could put a VME and a M30, or I'd be happy to get a E2 body and use any given M60 or variant as appropriate,

Or a TLS head... whatever is going to work the best as far as the balance between high/low.

I'd be thrilled to figure out a way to have a 20-40 lumen first stage and a 200-400 second stage... or a 10-30 first 130-170 second... I'm not at a loss for lights - I'm actually trying to get rid of most of my lights as I realize that I can build stuff using parts like the M60LL and have far superior performance to anything I have presently...

Ideally I would figure out a way to use this switch on a 1 cell body with 10-30 lumens on the first stage and 120+ on the second... anyone who know for sure how to accomplish that, regardless of which LED head I need to use... I'm listening!!!
 

gswitter

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Is there any way to figure out which resistor is in my McE2S?
Scroll down to the answer to "Q: Which resistor value should I choose for my McE2S?" in this thread. It shows how to identify the resistor value based on the color of the screw underneath the spring.
 

pangris1

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This website is a WEALTH of information.

Had a great conversation with "Old Don" (;)) today. Learned a lot.

The switch is at my office, but tomorrow I will investigate... I have a feeling that switch that I figured was an antique might turn out to be a critical componant on one of my favorite lights...

ETA - some of the stuff in that link made me drool... I'm guessing those Aleph bodies are no longer available/cost more than $40?
 
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pangris1

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OK - it is a 22 ohm switch... with that in hand... still the M30? Or an M60L? M60W?
 

pangris1

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I'm not quite that literate in flashaholic terms -

How does that translate to using an E1B host? Is the MC-E KL4 you are referencing a Malkoff or surefire or what? Isn't the set up you are referencing for a two cell set up?

If it makes more sense to use it as a two cell with a 100/500 lumen set up, and the switch can take it, I'm not married to any one idea. I can live with my E1B the way it is...

I want to use the switch I have to make a unique light regardless of one, two cells.

Say it like this - I've already got plenty of flashlights. I EDC an Arc+P AAA and SF E1B. I need another light like I need another hole in my head. That said, I have empty 1 and 2 cell SF E series bodies and this switch, and will buy whatever head - Malk, TLS, whatever - that wil yield the neatest/coolest result - be that a long running 10/80 lumen, 50/250 lumen, 100/500 lumen... I'm easy.

In a PERFECT world, sure, I'd love a E1B based EDC that could do 10-20 lumens on low with an 160+ output on high.

Dazzle me with brilliant suggestions :)
 

jeffb

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Ohms law is the "key" to using the correct resistor.
click here

you can input different voltage, power and resistance to model your needs.

The beauty of "OLD Don's" :nana: Aleph series (compatible with Surefire E)
is and was the modularity and ability to change heads, bodies and tailcaps and drivers (LE or Light Engine) to have "lego" lights.

If you use 1 cell at 3 volts or 2 cells at 6 volts, the resistor will apply a different current to the LE or "drop in" therefore changing the level of light.

The "Sandwich Shop", carries resistors, LE's tailcaps, bodies and assembled lights etc.
click here

TnC also offers E series compatible parts and high quality lights, as well
click here

By the way, "Old Don" is my age, but I don't take offense to age remarks
:twothumbs

Hope this helps.

jeffb
 

mudman cj

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I'm not quite that literate in flashaholic terms -

How does that translate to using an E1B host? Is the MC-E KL4 you are referencing a Malkoff or surefire or what? Isn't the set up you are referencing for a two cell set up?

If it makes more sense to use it as a two cell with a 100/500 lumen set up, and the switch can take it, I'm not married to any one idea. I can live with my E1B the way it is...

I want to use the switch I have to make a unique light regardless of one, two cells.

Say it like this - I've already got plenty of flashlights. I EDC an Arc+P AAA and SF E1B. I need another light like I need another hole in my head. That said, I have empty 1 and 2 cell SF E series bodies and this switch, and will buy whatever head - Malk, TLS, whatever - that wil yield the neatest/coolest result - be that a long running 10/80 lumen, 50/250 lumen, 100/500 lumen... I'm easy.

In a PERFECT world, sure, I'd love a E1B based EDC that could do 10-20 lumens on low with an 160+ output on high.

Dazzle me with brilliant suggestions :)

I'll keep it simple. I use my 22 Ohm switch with a single cell powering a head that is capable of running (nearly) full power from a single cell. The switch adds a very nice low to the setup.

For you, I suggest that you either get a FL-TLS-TX2 or a Malkoff M30 series and use a single Li-ion cell. You don't want the total battery voltage to be greater than what one cell puts out or the low will be too bright. You can use a 17670 cell with your 2 cell body for more runtime or a 16340 (RCR123) with your E1B body for a more compact version.

The Malkoff dropins are great, and are also available in warm tint :twothumbs, but you would also need the E-series VME head.
 

pangris1

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I think it is destined to go on a E1B body with a VME and M30W.

Really looking forward to seeing the results.

Thanks to everyone, especially Don.

ETA - the sandwich shoppe - VERY good timing :)

Does anyone offer an aftermarket side by side body?
 
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