Advice on air rifles?

Hey Everyone,

I'm looking for advice on which air rifle to purchase. I realize that this is CPF, I've tried airgunbbs and other forums, but I haven't been able to post or search airgunbbs (they're so exclusive, 3 days and I still haven't been "approved"). I remember a couple members mentioning them in the past, so I thought I'd post the question in general, with the hope that someone out there might have some insight.

I'm looking for a high powered model for backyard plinking, target practice, and pest control. I had been saving up for a firearm, but considering the liberal atmosphere in Mass, and my "neighbors" from the Senior Citizens Home, (who like to leave lottery tickets all over my front lawn, call the police if I walk with a flashlight at night, and call the fire dept. for "out of control" open pit barbecues) I've been thinking an air rifle would be discrete enough to shoot on my property, and legal if someone calls the police.

I have a Daisy 22x, which I find to be great for target practice. Unfortunately, it's been having problems. The early ones were plagued with factory defects, so I'm trying to get Daisy to replace it. The problem is I seem to be a better shot than the rifle itself, especially with a scope. This is especially irritating, and now that I have nothing to practice with, I'm seriously considering something with more power and precision.

I'd never shot a .22 air rifle before discovering the 22x, and I'd have to say I'm hooked. After doing some research, I understand .177 flies straighter and at higher velocities, .22 is slower but offers 70% more power and efficiency, and .20 maintains the straighter flight profile of the lighter pellet while offering 40% more power and less drift. I'm fairly certain I'd prefer a .22 or .20 rifle.

I've considered several spring-powered rifles, such as the Gamo 440 (.22/$185), 890 (.22/$200), and Benjamin-Sheridan RM622 (.22/$200). I like the power and lack of maintenance, but the recoil tends to turn me off. Not the force, I have no problem with .45, .306, and 10guage firearms. As I understand it, the spring rifle's dual recoil action destroys scopes, meaning I'd have to purchase an scope designed for spring air rifles, and a stop to prevent creep. I've also heard that the recoil action is less than realistic.

The other option is Pre-Charged Pneumatic (PCP), which is roughly twice the price, but offers higher power, and multiple shots, without any destructive recoil. The downside is the expensive High Pressure Air (HPA) pump, compressor, or scuba tank required. I've been seriously considering the Korean rifles, such as the RWS Career 707 (.20or.22/$500), Shin Sung Career 707(.20or.22/$500), and Eun Jin Sumatra (.20or.22/$400). I've also looked at the Air Arms 410 (.22/$600-$700 for XHP). From the limited information I've come across, most consider the Korean rifles ugly, but those who have fired them compared to the Air Arms 410 consider them the superior rifle. They're also cheaper. Can anyone offer any input?

Some of my concerns are, PCP vs. Spring air, are they worth the investment? Will PCPs rust or break down over time, compared to the user serviceable spring rifles? If I spend $400-$600, I'd like it to last as long as I do. I'm a meticulous owner, so it would be properly cared for.

Are all Korean rifles of the same quality/manufacture? The Sumatra seems to have the better magazine mechanism, but fewer power adjustments. Which is better? Should I indeed be taking the AA 410 more seriously/is it worth the extra cash?

Also, any experience with .20 vs. .22? I've used .22, but .20 owners seem to swear by them. I mostly trap the rodents and relocate the squirrels (mostly reds) that live in the attic, but they are getting smarter and I haven't managed to catch any in a month, and I still hear them chewing in the walls above my bed at night, and in the walls of the 1st floor, etc. Aside from them, the only other pests would be the flocks of crows and the occasional woodchuck that tries to nest under the house. I have no problem compensating for the .22s more pronounced flight profile, but is the .20 that much better? Will I have a problem feeding it?

As and aside I'm trying to repair a Crosman .22 38T. It leaks something furious, and there's a few parts that don't seem to be in the right place (not the first owner to have this one apart, I'm certain...). Anyone with any ideas?

I'm thinking about buying a pistol if I can't get it repaired or just to avoid buying prodigious amounts of 12g powerlets. HW40 ($155) vs. HW45 ($345)? Again, .20 or .22?

Lastly, anyone in the US know of any legislation considering air guns I should be aware of? In Mass? I've done my homework, but I'm sure there's something I've missed.

I realize this is a shot in the dark, but I'd appreciate and information, opinions, or experience you have to offer, thanks guys! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I guess I'm not going to be much help, but when I was a kid, I had a .22 cal Benjamin 312 pump rifle that was superbly accurate and powerful enough for small critters out to about 50 meters.

Wish they still made them; I considered buying one of the Benjamin-Sheridan models but didn't see anything I liked at a price I could afford.

As far as legality, There in the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts, I'd be very careful. Check with your Local Law Enforcement agency: I'd ask a "beat cop" in your neighborhood AND the Chief or Sheriff.

Just the other day I was listening on the radio to the District Attorney for our most populous county, and someone asked about the legality of a BB gun, and she said "all guns are illegal" which is PATENTLY false, especially out here in the wild-wild-west.

She seemed to be very ignorant in all the areas she was questioned on.... Must have gotten hired on her looks or something, but it just goes to show you that you can't trust the answers of the people who should know.... So, talk to the guys who are most likely to arrest you.

Rail,
You're lucky you can buy air rifles up there, it's illegal to sell to NY. I would love to get one again.

I recently went through air gun enlightenment myself! Or should I say, am still going through it! Definitely check local laws before you make a purchase.
I purchased a Daisy Avanti 835, Crosman 1077, Benjamin-Sheridan 392 and a Crosman 1377c that I'm converting to a 1322C w/ Crooked Barn breech and bolt. I just ordered my first springer, an RWS 94 demo, based on glowing reviews and a very affordable price from AGE. I shoot in my basement so I don't need the power (or noise) of a PCP. All have their appeal, but if I were to own just one it would be the B-S 392. Well, at least today it would be. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif I don't mind multi-pumps and it's more accurate than I am.
Another option would be bulked CO2 guns like a modded Crosman 2240, 2250 or 2260. Mr. Bulk can steer you to the best bulk modders as he used to be tops in that game! Check out sites like CO2une, Crooked Barn and MetalWorks Design.

Good luck! I'll let you know my impression of the RWS 94 in .22 when it arrives mid-week.

PS: Other springers I have seen recommended in the $200 range: Beeman R9, BSA Super Sport (also Carbine version)

PPS: This turning out to be more addictive than firearms and flashlights combined /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif

PPPS: Does anyone have a good Crosman 2289g for sale??

Rail, .177 will let give you a flatter trajectory but most of my guns are .22(pellets easier to pickup) The .20 is fine but the main drawback is lack of pellet selection. This is a critical factor with spring guns as most will prefer one or two pellets. A pellet sampler pack is a must unless you just get lucky with your first choice. Two rifles of the same make and model may shoot better with different pellets.

If you like iron sights I would recommend the Williams FP-AG. Don't bother with the target knobs as you need a screwdriver to adjust them anyway.

Another option is a Red Dot sight. You want a small 3-4 min dot or it will cover too much area up close.

Scopes - condensed version - variable features and bigger size lets the two way snap affect scopes more. Seems like the airgun scopes I like best are not made anymore. The Weaver 2x7 rimfire works ok even if the parallax is set a little far out. The Swift 676M is a good buy too. Hard to go wrong with BKL mounts. The BKL Model 253A works great and looks good on smaller rifles. BKL & Swift

Main part is buy plenty of pellets and have fun. Keith

Rail, almost certainly your city/county/village will have some law concerning the discharge of an air rifle. My hometown has an ordinance that covers any projectile-firing device. Legal to own, fully illegal to use. General rule of thumb, be aware of any possibility of being observed before you shoot.

This won't apply to a .22 caliber, but I know a trick for use with a .177 pellet gun. Take a BB and insert it into the open (tail) end of a pellet, and crimp it lightly with a pliers to hold it better. Insert the pellet backwards (BB forward) and fire normally. On impact with the soft tissue of a varmint the softer lead material of the pellet will expand/fragment.

Boy, wait until Mr. Bulk gets a hold of this thread, Air guns was his main hobby before flashlights... Might want to PM him. He hangs out over in homemade and modified..

Beeman Precision Airguns /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Dan

As far as legal issues, I've done some research online, and I've managed to come up with this.

MGL- Section 10: License to Carry
MGL: Silencers
Sale of Firearms
Sale of Air Rifles to Minors
Posession of Air Rifles by Minors
Loaded Weapon
Discharge of a firearm - 500ft.

There's only two that I find a bit sticky, the classification of an air rifle and if the 500ft. rule applies, or even, what that means. I'll be completely on my property at all times, including projectiles, but I don't think it makes a difference. I'll try and check in with an officer I know soon.

I have a good impression of B-Sheridan rifles, my father still has an ancient pair he had as a kid. I've never fired them, but he beams whenever he mentions them. Hopefully the quality hasn't changed.

Inverse, please let me know how that HW works out for you. Also, on AGE, prices, customer service, etc. I have no idea who I should be looking to make my purchase from.

Springnr, thank you for the information, and for the links, I especially like the iron sights. I enjoy shooting with the open sights on my Daisy, but they're quite awful. I'd much rather have a quality set as an alternative to the bent sheetmetal and plastic plug that came with it.

Thank you for bringing up velocity. I'm not concerned with owning a velocity monster. As I understand it, the ballistics of a pellet make it impossible to breach the sound barrier (approx. 1080 fps depending on weather) while preserving accuracy. In fact, a pellet cannot even approach the sound barrier without compressibility having negative effects. So the most accurate air rifles are those that keep the pellets at velocities below 900fps.

On the other hand, manufacturers often use lighter pellets to achieve these velocities. These pellets have greater acceleration, but lose momentum quickly and have less energy downrange. If a heavy grain match or hunting pellet is used instead, it doesn't accelerate as qucikly, resulting in lower velocities, and more momentum and energy downrange.

I find this concept intriguing, and I'm interested in knowing whether the heavy pellet approach to improving accuracy and power is worthwhile. It requires a more expensive rifle and more expensive pellets, but could result in an impressive match. That's what originally made me lean toward Korean PCPs, adjustable power levels to use medium grain at low velocity for close range target practice, and high power for heavy pellets. This might be more aggrevation and expense than I need though. I just thought I'd explain my initial range of rifles. My .22 Daisy only fires 550 fps, and I enjoy it (when it's shooting well anyhow) alot. I don't even mind pumping it.

Springnr, could you tell me which rifles you've had experience with? Is the HW 50 MII your preference?

Oh, I couldn't help but notice all the posts from the UK on other forums talking about how silent their rifles were with stock silencers. ATF anti-silencer laws apply to air rifles as well right? I think they even apply to paintball markers. I just thought it was interesting the UK limits output, bans firearms, but allows silencers, and we do almost the exact opposite.

My advice is as follows:

1. Goto this store website. It has loads of reviews and comparisons on all airguns and accessories and you can purchase here as well; I have. http://www.straightshooters.com/ssmenu.html

2. I know another trick as well. There is a way to get a more powerful and more silent rifle than a pellet rifle. It involves using an adapter for a regular rifle. In particular, you need a 32auto adapter for a 308 rifle. The adapter is just a 308 cartridge shaped holder for a 32 auto pistol round. This is used with any 308 bolt action rifle. It is completely... completely silent. It also puts out 130 foot pounds of energy. The ammo should also be cheap. There is only one store selling these. Here's the store:
http://www.mcace.com/
http://www.mcace.com/adapters.htm
you need the 32 acp in 308 winchester. I was told to stay away from the inserts for the shotguns since they are much louder.

3. Whatever you decide on do it immediately. Soon you wont be able to buy pellet rifles without a permit or paperwork. They may be banned. Sooner still, the 308 bolt action rifles will be banned. You watch the news on tv. You don't have to be a genius to see the way this country is going on gun control which includes air rifles.

For those for whom money is no object I present my dream air rifle:
Delta 32 -1 Delta 32 -2 Delta 32 -3
Here is the link to Barnes Pneumatic

Oh these things are beautiful! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/huh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Go HERE and anyone can get on. It is frequented by the best and most experienced airgunners, as well as about a million newbies a day.

I have been completely out of airgunning lately (although I still have a half dozen airguns laying around along with all the acoutrements necessary for their functional deployment thereto) but I would go for PCP or bulk (that's "BULK", not powerlet) fill CO2 guns. Recoil-free for ultimate accuracy, and most models have multi-shot capability for when you need that all-important follow-up shot...

One thing to consider is that the PCP rifles without a built in moderator (silencer) are LOUD, some louder than a .22. Detachable moderators are used all over the world but are illegal in the U.S., so if you go PCP I suggest getting a model with a shrouded (silenced) barrel. Also, the cost of a good PCP rifle is considerable, and most people use a scuba tank or air compressor to fill their PCP which is a large additional cost. Even the hand pumps are around $150. Of the air guns you mentioned above, I would only consider the Air Arms 410E (high power, quiet, and can have a power mod done to shoot lower power when desired) or as someone else mentioned a Benjamin pump rifle. A fellow named Tim McMurry does 'steroid' mods on them that boost the power. Iron or peep sights are best on these. The Korean rifles are neat but too loud unless the power is turned way down. Of course if noise is not an issue, you can get a Career in 9mm which is just plain incredible.

I like the springer guns but don't care for the Gamos. I have a Beeman R9 which has plenty of power and is fairly quiet (all springers make mechanical noise) in .20. Pellet selection is not a problem if you have shop that carries airguns besides Wally World and the like. Of course, you can always get what you want by ordering on the internet. Springers can be hold sensitive, meaning if you grip the stock too tightly or loosely, the point of impact changes. They're a little trickier to shoot than the CO2 and PCP guns.

Mr. Bulk's link is the probably the best advice here. A few days of reading and you'll have enough information to make an informed choice.

i have a crosman 277 w/ scope- it is the best

Re: Advice on air rifles? *DELETED*

Post deleted by springnr

Hey this is Sigman's son, the one that went to Wilmington, NC, to compete in this vary subject. Although the Air Rifle I shoot is far more accurate than the ones that you are talking about for plinking in the back yard, it still can be fun. My choice rifle is the Feinwerkbau P70, i shoot the exact same model picured at http://www.straightshooters.com/beeman/bdfwbp70.html Every once in a while my fellow shooters and I like to place various items down range to "have fun". This offers a different satisfaction than shooting at the targets we're supposed to be aiming at.

There are two categories of Air Rifle shooting, Sporter and Presicion. The difference between the two is that in the Sporter category the shooteres are only allowed their rifle, a sling and a glove. Presicion however, allows the sling and glove, in addition to a jacket, pants, shoes, and a kneeling role. The Sporter rifles are less expensive but offer no less accuracy.

I would just like to encourage you to try to get any children you have or know involved in either category of Air Rifle shooting either in a club or at a local high school. This sport is small and we need more people to gain interest in this struggling sport. At the high school I currently attend as a sophomore/junior we have had around 30 people try out for the team both years and have not made cuts because of the low attendance. At the end of the season we end up with 15-20 still regularly showing up to practice. To compete with another school we have 12 students shooting for score and 2 alternates standing by if something happens to one of the shooters.

It would be greatly appreciated if you could find some kids to practice and compete in this sport or if you could try to get involved with a school team or club team and get the word out that we need more participants. I don't know if this will offer any help with the plikning aspect of this thread but if you could help out with something this post will have accomplished something. Thank you for your time.

**Edit by Sigman = Fixed link **