Renamed: Tankless water heaters?

DieselDave

Super Moderator,
Joined
Sep 3, 2002
Messages
2,703
Location
FL panhandle
I need help. I have searched but haven't found it on-line. I have found how to install a sweat fitting but not remove one.

I need to remove an outdoor faucet type valve from my water heater. The top of the faucet is leaking. This is a sweat joint and I cannot locate info. on how to remove a sweat joint. I assumed I could heat it with my torch and then pull it out but after 2 minutes under the torch it was still solid. Can I un-sweat it? Do I have to cut the pipe? Any plumbers out there? I've never sweat a pipe but it doesn't look all that tough from what I have read. As long as torch burns aren't tough.

Thanks,
DD

8/2/03
Sorry to revive this thread but...My repairs were not addressing the real problem. It seems I have a small leak in my tank.

I need to replace my water heater this weekend if at all possible. I have looked at the standard stuff at Lowes, Home Depot and Sears. Nothing new there but the install would be easy. I have looked on-line at some tankless heaters but can't find anyone that has one so I can get an actual opinion. I am on electric service, no gas in the house at all.

I have two questions :
Anyone have experience with a tankless water heater?
Is there anything new and exciting in the tank type water heaters?

Thanks and here we go again
 

The_LED_Museum

*Retired*
Joined
Aug 12, 2000
Messages
19,414
Location
Federal Way WA. USA
Re: Removing a sweat fitting? Any Plumbers?

I was going to suggest using your blowtorch on it, but I see you've already tried that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 

MicroE

Enlightened
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
951
Location
Northern NJ, USA
Re: Removing a sweat fitting? Any Plumbers?

Don't take this as an insult.....
Is the pipe empty?
If you try to heat a pipe that contains any water it will be VERY difficult to get it hot enough to melt the solder. Copper is great heat conductor, the faucet is a large heatsink, and water has a high heat capacity. Thus, it is very hard to melt solder in a partially-filled pipe with a fixture nearby.

I am not a plumber, but I have done a bit of plumbing. I would probably cut it off.---Marc
 

MicroE

Enlightened
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
951
Location
Northern NJ, USA
Re: Removing a sweat fitting? Any Plumbers?

By the way. Can you use plumber's packing (sticky string) to seal the valve leak? Is there a washer inside the valve that needs to be replaced?---Marc
 

tsg68

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 1, 2003
Messages
1,248
Location
Breukelen, NY established 1646
Re: Removing a sweat fitting? Any Plumbers?

As above mentioned is the valve stem removeable? If it leaks from the stem and not the faucet you need to replace the O-ring on the stem. you will probably have to open the valve before removing the stem to keep the parts together, so you need to drain the tank. Most washers, O-rings and even complete valves are available at home centers like Lowes or Home Depot.

If you cannot replace the parts in the faucet and you need to break the sweat joint you will need to apply the torch to the joint till the solder liquifies then while still applying the torch to the joint so that the solder doesn't cool, you need to twist the faucet back and forth with a pipe wrench till it comes loose and you can work it off. Clean off the excess solder from the supply on the tank with a wet rag while the joint is still hot. I would put a heat shield of some kind between the joint and the body of the heater to avoid burning something.

TSG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

DieselDave

Super Moderator,
Joined
Sep 3, 2002
Messages
2,703
Location
FL panhandle
Re: Removing a sweat fitting? Any Plumbers?

It's a vertical handle and it's coming right out the very top of the handle. I was kinda blowing it off. I bought the torch, flux, solder and valve a few days back and planned to get to it sometime. Now it's really leaking and requires immediate attention.

Yes there is probably water in the fitting. I turned off the water at the meter but it's probably right up to the valve. I had read this made it tougher but man I heated that thing a long time. Could/Should I bang on it as I am trying to get it out or will it come out easy once the solder is melted?

If I cut it I don't think I have enough pipe left, fixed side and flexible side to re-mate.
 

was_jlh

Enlightened
Joined
Oct 15, 2002
Messages
751
Re: Removing a sweat fitting? Any Plumbers?

Not a plumber, but live in a 50 yr old house with copper pipe, so I've had to do (more than) my share of sweating pipes. As Marc said, an empty pipe is crucial. And as Tad said, twisting while heating is important. Also, are you using propane torch or MAPP? Buying or borrowing a MAPP gas torch may be worthwhile. I could never go back to propane now.

Joe
 

tsg68

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 1, 2003
Messages
1,248
Location
Breukelen, NY established 1646
Re: Removing a sweat fitting? Any Plumbers?

Dave I think you have to make sure the heater is shut down and drain the tank before you proceed.

Despite the solder joint, the pipe is still going to be tight on there so that is why I suggested the plumbers wrench and a firm, but not forceful back and forth motion, try to see when the solder goes fluid then start to twist it. But be careful not to break the pipe copper is pretty easy to snap.

TSG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

tsg68

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 1, 2003
Messages
1,248
Location
Breukelen, NY established 1646
Re: Removing a sweat fitting? Any Plumbers?

Joe is right too Dave, the MAPP gas gives you a much hotter flame than the propane. Good luck.

TSG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

DieselDave

Super Moderator,
Joined
Sep 3, 2002
Messages
2,703
Location
FL panhandle
Re: Removing a sweat fitting? Any Plumbers?

Got it apart and am about to reinstall.

As long as my whole house isn't flooded tomorrow morning, mission complete. The advice was just what I needed. A couple of tricks and a little confidence and it seems I have a new skill.....Please don't leak, please don't leak.

Thanks a bunch
 

tsg68

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 1, 2003
Messages
1,248
Location
Breukelen, NY established 1646
Re: Removing a sweat fitting? Any Plumbers?

Keeping my fingers crossed for ya Dave!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

TSG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

DieselDave

Super Moderator,
Joined
Sep 3, 2002
Messages
2,703
Location
FL panhandle
Re: Removing a sweat fitting **Mission Complete**

Mission Complete
Thanks TSG, was jlh, MicroE and the toilet man...The LED Museum

Almost forgot tools required:
Vise grip
Pipe wrench
Leather gloves
Torch
Matches
Flux and flux brush
Solder
Sandpaper
Hammer
Nail puller
Screwdriver
Pry bar
Nails
(Did I mention I had to take the water heater closet partially apart?)
Pizza Pan (Don't tell my wife but I used it as a protector for some wiring against the torch}
Sons T-Shirt (Used as a sopping tool)
Fire extinguisher (only used as a standby, just in case)

LAST BUT NOT LEAST

SUREFIRE E2E
BADBOY 500 MOUNTED IN A BRIGHT IZE HEADBAND
 

Willmore

Enlightened
Joined
Mar 5, 2002
Messages
435
Location
Hamilton, NJ
Re: Removing a sweat fitting **Mission Complete**

Aluminum foil works pretty well for a heat shield material, too. Cheap and easy to form.

Sweat joints for water? Not fun, but if you don't like it, try black iron pipe for natural gas sometime. *shudder* I hate gas....
 

Saaby

Flashaholic
Joined
Jun 17, 2002
Messages
7,447
Location
Utah
Re: Removing a sweat fitting **Mission Complete**

Whaat? I don't see a Suburban in there anywhere. You should be ashamed of yourself.
 

tiktok 22

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 8, 2002
Messages
1,273
Location
Illinois
Re: Removing a sweat fitting **Mission Complete**

Hi Guys,

Just a tip. When sweating a fitting, there can be no water in the line. First shut off the water, then always open the valve(as to not build up pressure from the heat). Open a water valve that is below the water valve to keep water that might be leaking past the shut off valve from entering the line where you are working. If its not possible to open a valve below the one you are working on.....cram a piece of bread into the pipe to stop it from leaking. This will keep the water out long enough to sweat the fitting back on. When done, open the valve and the bread will dissolve and flush right out.

cheers,
kev
 

DieselDave

Super Moderator,
Joined
Sep 3, 2002
Messages
2,703
Location
FL panhandle
Re: Removing a sweat fitting **Mission Complete**

I gotta tell ya I had a fear of building up pressure. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif The tight spot I had to work in forced me to face the joint head on instead of from the side. I locked open the relief valve during the project for a piece of mind. I often wonder how the diesel Suburban can handle it without leaking. Tonight I plan to replace all my outside sweated on water faucets. Torches, flashlights and pressure, I am a manly man. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 

was_jlh

Enlightened
Joined
Oct 15, 2002
Messages
751
Re: Removing a sweat fitting **Mission Complete**

Congrats, DieselDave, no stopping you now.

Joe
 

sunspot

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 22, 2001
Messages
2,707
Location
Graham, NC
Re: Removing a sweat fitting **Mission Complete**

An extra hint that I did not see on this thread. Heat the female side of the joint. The liquid solder is drawn to the heat. It insures that the joint is filled with solder and not just on the seam of the joint.
 
Top