Handguns in the night

"…..and for when something goes bump in the night I've got my M3 – Tigerlight - M6 on the nightstand table right next to my trusty Glock - H&K- Baretta, etc"… So reads many a CPF post casually referring to the contemporary realities of home safety and defense.

I grew up in a small suburb of a big city years ago when the biggest headline in the local paper one morning was that "Red", our popular postman had been convicted of tampering with the US mail and would be spending the next few years as a guest of the state. If there was a bump in the night it was likely to be good neighbor Ethyl S. sneaking in our unlocked back door to place a tin of her fresh baked, scrumptiously delicious chocolate brownies on the dining room table as a surprise for my Mom. If you told anyone you had a Glock on your night table he'd probably say "of course you have a Clock on your night table, doesn't everyone"?

You get the picture.

OK, we all know how things are today, but what surprises me is how frequently I see references to nightstand/handgun light combos on CPF. I live in a city that criminalizes the most elemental efforts of self defense, yet most of my friends and colleagues feel quite safe in their high rise apartment buildings ensconced behind a phalanx of doormen, elevatormen and service personnel of all types. I would feel perfectly safe going down to the laundry room at 3AM, or leaving my door unlocked for hours at a time.

I feel safer in a well-cared-for apartment building in a good urban neighborhood than I would in a rural or suburban house. A female friend in Michigan was raped at gunpoint in the kitchen of her beautiful but rather isolated house in the country. Many CPF posts that mention nightstand lights and guns are from Southern and Western states, often from less urban areas.

Is isolation the determining factor, or is it just living in your own house where you are responsible for your safety and that of your family? How widespread is the nightstand light/gun combo and how many Flashaholics who live in secure apartment houses in big cities feel the necessity of armed nightstand defense compared to those who live in private surburban or rural homes?

Since I don't have the option of legal self defense I'm glad that I can at least live in a pretty secure place, where a bump in the night is likely to be me knocking into something on the way to the john.

Brightnorm

Brightnorm:

Personally, I prefer a good 12 gauge pump action shotgun for home defense.

There is something about the noise the pump makes when you rack a shell into the chamber that seems to put the fear of God into anyone on the receiving end of this weapon.

You hear a noise downstairs, you rack the pump when you leave your bedroom. By the time you reach the first floor the invader is long gone. This saves your carpet from blood and buckshot holes.

I have lived in the same suburb of Cleveland Ohio for the past 43 years. I have never had "night visitor", but I like to be prepared.

I think your right about living in a single family dwelling and feeling that you are the one person who must be available to protect yourself and your family.

For four years I lived in an apartment on Jane street in the Village in New York. The building was broken into at least twice while I lived there. Other apartments, never mine. At the time, I did not think much about not owning a weapon or being able to protect myself. I was a lot younger then, and those were also different times.

If you can't own a gun, then I believe the best defense is a well lighted building. Entranceway, hallways and shared rooms that are well lighted are always a deturrent to crime.

Of course, two good flashlights ain't bad either. I recommend a Surefire M6 to blind, and a Maglite 6D for... driving nails. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Tom,

I like your flashlight combo /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

BN

I live in a medium/small town (about 70,000) with city limits defined by a mediun town (180,000) a small town (25,000) and two military bases surrounding us. We have a decent police force (actually we contract with the County Sheriff to provide our policing which gives us patrol officers assigned to us in city patrol cars, and immediate backup from the rest of the deputies).

I make my home in a four story, two block long apartment building with secured entrances (the main entrance has a tele-entry system so we can "buzz" people in without having to run down to the entrance to let them in.

Inside, everyone knows everyone else and watches out for everyone else. The hall lighting is on 24/7 and has 90 minute battery backup. We have four emergency stairwells and three elevators. A security patrol cruises our parking lot, and it is well lit.

All doors in the building are rather heavy 1 1/2 hour fire rated doors, and all 91 apartment entries are deadbolted into their steel frames.

There is a S&W 908 on the nightstand and a KelTec P32 on the headboard - those are also my EDC - along with the usual assortment of portable lighting. (Should power fail three of the internal apartment fixtures are battery backup.)

This building has been a safe one since it was built in 1978.

I've lived in rural, suburban and central city abodes, in apartments, condo's and isolated houses. I've carried for the past 33 years, and only twice had to draw a weapon - one time interrupting a 7-11 holdup and once a home invasion (not mine, I was a guest). One of those was urban and one suburban. In fact, the 7-11 was less than 1/2 block from the city municipal building and police station ...

Do I feel safe in this building? Yes. Do I often have my interior apartment door open and unlocked? Yes. Do I bolt it down tight when I go to bed? Yes. Am I still armed? Yup!

In some ways inner city is safer, in some ways, suburban. What makes rural sometimes seem safer is simply less population density. It is probably more un-safe because there is often zero backup an bad things can happen with no one noticing.

Oh, my interior apartment entrance hallway is alarmed with a motion sensor alarm ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I live in a small and quickly expanding town of about 30,000. On top of these 30,000, we've got another 15,000 college students.

I live just outside the city limits; not too crowded, not too isolated, just right. My nearest neighbor is about 200 yards away on the other side of the street, and despite the fact that their *questionable* activities have gone on for years now, I'm not too worried about them...they pretty much keep to themselves. And as long as I've lived there, I don't remember there ever being a burglary at any of the houses on my street.

I always lock my doors and windows. I have motion sensitive lighting outside. I have an alarm. I have a large dog that sleeps light and loves to bark at strange noises.

Having said all that, I still keep a firearm handy. And at night, there's always a Benelli M1 12ga, HK USP .45C (sometimes fitted with a GG&G M3 rail adapter and a Streamlight M3), and a handheld flashlight next to the bed. (I'm still working on a handheld flashlight that I'm happy with...I'm really curious as to how the KL5s will turn out.)

And my girlfriend knows the drill. The Benelli's on her side of the bed, and is there for her to use. We've discussed the what-ifs, do-s, and don't-s. We've made plans, just like we have for a fire, a tornado, and so on.

I like to be prepared. Period. I hate to be without a knife. I hate to be without a flashlight. I hate to be without whatever I need at the moment. And I'd hate to be without a weapon while staring down an unfriendly barrel. I could care less if some meathead is after my stereo. However, if said meathead is after me or someone I love, he'll have to work for it.

I got first exposure to Surefires at a gun shop. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I believe the highest calling of any manmade tool is to defend the innocent from unjust agression. I'm no ninja, but I concur with Ewick: by God, they'll work for it, and I'm no pushover when my family is on the line.

I maintain that a gun may or may not be someones' idea of security, but if you have a gun, you have a duty to follow Rule 4: always be aware of your target and what is behind it. In the dark, that demands a flashlight or nightvision, and most of us can't justify nightvision. Well, maybe that's not true on CPF. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Brightnorm, I think the correlation between serious gun owners and tactical light owners is high. Surefire advertizes in gun magazines. Most of our best vendors are in the "tactical" business. Statistically speaking, if you take a large sample of Americans, one in six will be a gun owner. So I'm not surprised there are a sizeable amount here.

And at least the gun owners I know, it's not a decision of necissity or security. It's something they have, and know how to use, and they don't put too much stock in being a Chuck Norris wannabe.

The question almost everyone seems to ask at some time or other is "What happened". What is it, specifically, that happened to our society to change it into a place where people have to sleep with their guns within reach? I've heard many explanations over the years but never a really satisfying one.

Maybe the title of this thread should be "What happened"?

Brightnorm

Like I said, I don't know of anyone who feels a *need* to have a gun. The own them, can shoot straight, and they would rather have it handy and never need it, than need it and have to go find it in the closet. A gun is no subsitute for proper home security.

If someone felt the were under such danger as to *need* a gun, I would doubt that was because of a rational fear, at least where I live. The greatest threat to my life was middle school /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I enjoy not *needing* guns, yet being able to legally own and use them.

[ QUOTE ]
Blikbok said:
...I believe the highest calling of any manmade tool is to defend the innocent from unjust agression...

[/ QUOTE ]

Blikbok,

I've never seen it put quite like that but that is a concise, elegant quotable tatement.

I cannot describe the frustration I feel living in a gun-hating city that criminalizes the right of law abiding responsible adults to self defense and makes obtaining a gun license virtually impossible.

Unfortunately gun ownership has become a touchstone issue in this country, but I believe that certain things transcend politics, and the right to defend your life and those you care about is or should be one of them.

At least it's still legal own a flashlight /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Brightnorm

[ QUOTE ]
brightnorm said:
At least it's still legal own a flashlight /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

...Just don't get caught tresspassing with one. "Posession of Buglary Tools" is still on the books in many states. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Good question

For one we have better, maybe the wrong word, more complete news coverage than we did 20-40-60 years ago so we hear more about the violent crimes, which makes us feel more vulnerable. Second, there is more violent crime than 60 years ago, at least crime that is reported. When you hear every punk on the corner is "packing" you may feel a need to even the odds. People seem to be less inclined to get involved for any number of reasons including liability and danger. I witnessed a very bad one-car accident a couple of years ago with the car ending up in the ditch on I-95 in the middle of nowhere. I was the first to the car and it was a mess. I begin helping the worst injured and after 5 minutes looked up the hill to see 50+ people standing there watching but nobody was coming to help. I needed some serious help so I screamed at the crowd and one guy came to lend me assistance. Unfortunately I think this is what our society has come to. Most don't want to get involved. For the most part you're on your own which is a shame. I am sure there are areas where this isn't the case which gives me reason to hope.

Because of my kids I no longer keep a firearm loaded in the house. They are available but I would need 60-90 seconds. This doesn't mean I am unarmed because I do feel the need for an immediately available weapon to protect my family.

[ QUOTE ]
Blikbok said:
...If someone felt the were under such danger as to *need* a gun, I would doubt that was because of a rational fear, at least where I live..,I enjoy not *needing* guns, yet being able to legally own and use them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that it's better to not need and have than it is to need and not have.

In my city in the 70's there was a feeling of lawlesness and near anarchy in the air and many law abiding people felt and expressed the need for viable personal defense but were afraid to arm themselves illegally.

It comes down to having options, and it's a real shame when the right that you enjoy and perhaps take for granted is denied to millions of people because of misguided notions of what constitutes a safe sociaty.

Brightnorm

I don't think one single event is at fault. However, I believe the so-called "sheep mentality", the justice system's failure to instill fear into criminals, and a general decline in common courtesy are all huge influences.

The criminal element has been taught by honest citizens over the last few decades that their actions WILL NOT be resisted. They have been taught by the courts that their behavior WILL NOT be adequately punished. They have been raised in environments void of respect and responsibility. What should we expect?

I fully agree with Blikbok's take on this. The people I shoot with are a hugely responsible bunch. They take the time to educate themselves; they practice their marksmanship and weapon handling safety; they value their right to keep and bear arms. They take their ownership of firearms very seriously. They don't pretend to be movie stars.

A firearm is a tool, and should neither be feared nor disrespected. A TOOL. Nothing more, nothing less.

The nation has been watching TV and it doesn't like what it sees.

Exactly. And who can blame them? Watch some T.V. Listen to a little radio. Check out a few news websites. What do you notice?

All negative. Never a "Granny shoots intruder, saves herself and husband", or a "Responsible armed citizen stops burglary", or a "Violent crime has dropped after the introduction of the new CCW law." Sadly, I'd be surprised if Thomas got as many thanks as he did strange looks for his efforts (read above).

And then, when some ***hole goes on a rampage and kills a few co-workers at his plant, someone stands up and says, "Excuse me. Don't criticize this man. He was human too ... don't exclude him. He was a victim, too. ... He was a kind and loving human being."

Right. Firearms killed those people all by themselves. (In stern tone) BAD FIREARMS...BAD BAD BAD. (Join in, everybody!)

Wrong. He was an ***hole with previously documented mental and substance abuse problems who should've had his ownership priveledges revoked.

If all news stories were told as accurately as firearm-related news stories, Jayson Blair wouldn't have any trouble finding a new job.

Wow...Sorry for going so far off topic. This stuff really frosts my jockeys. Rant complete.

Not too far off topic. If all we see on the news is crime, shooting sprees, and riots, then aren't we going to try to protect ourselves against those percieved threats?

People aren't going to wait until they are threatened, they will act before they are threatened, and the news is a source of information (however slanted) of what is happening to other people.

My concern about these articles is twofold. First, obviously, is the misleading of the American public on firearms related issues, leading to laws backed by the uninformed which backfire in the face of the law abiding citizen. Second is the resulting increased firearm ownership by undertrained/unqualified citizens, leading to more accidental discharge/mistaken identity shootings, creating more fuel for the media fire.

Oh, well. You all have a safe weekend. I'm outta here.

Im just happy i live in a country where guns are a very very rare sight. ive only seen them being carried by cops, and thats pretty rare too.

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kakster said:
Im just happy i live in a country where guns are a very very rare sight. ive only seen them being carried by cops, and thats pretty rare too.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can understand that reaction if a country is relatively peaceful with a very low violent crime rate, a generally mild perceived threat level and the rarity of firearms even among criminals. That is one reality.

In the USA there is a different reality, both in perception and actuality, and our reactions are tuned to that different reality. In Japan nobody has guns and the society works. In Switzerland everybody has guns and the society works. In our country too many of the wrong people have guns and good people perish.

Each society must deal with the everyday facts of life according to what they actually are.

Brightnorm