McCain calls for investigation and security firing

Here is a post from CNN today:

White House: CIA cleared Iraq speech - McCain: 'Hold somebody responsible'

Here is a quote:

"Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, said there should be an investigation to determine how the faulty information made its way into the State of the Union speech and that whoever was responsible for it should be fired."

[ QUOTE ]
ikendu said:
Here is a post from CNN today:

White House: CIA cleared Iraq speech - McCain: 'Hold somebody responsible'

Here is a quote:

"Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, said there should be an investigation to determine how the faulty information made its way into the State of the Union speech and that whoever was responsible for it should be fired."



[/ QUOTE ]

I guess it was the head of the CIA...he`s the one that should have stopped it. At least thats what I understand. At the very least he will be a good scapegoat.

Ya know what Ikendu? I consider this post to be baiting. Ya know why? Because you are only posting little bits and pieces. IMO, these bits and pieces are designed to bait others into inflammatory replies. I would ask that you please refrain from this in the future. If you are unaware that you are doing it, then I would suggest that you try to be more aware in the future. Thank you.

Now for the REST of the quote that you conveniently left out...

[ QUOTE ]
"Hold somebody responsible," McCain said. He added, however, that the controversy over the disputed line does not change the justification for going to war because, he said, Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. "The war was totally justified," McCain said.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like McCain, haven't liked him or trusted him for about 30 years. (long story)

He is only right about half the time, But when he is right, he is RIGHT....

Anyway, George Tenent, (head of the CIA, a CLINTON appointee who should never have held the job in the first place, and should have been fired when President Bush was elected) is ultimately (and perhaps directly) responsible for this particular situation. I hope President Bush will FINALLY get rid of him

Maybe...but perhaps we should see what Mr. Tenent has to say about all this...keeping in mind who his boss is of coures. We may find that it was the janitor that is reponsible for shredding doucuments. Perhap he forgot...and left it on Bush`s desk...and Bush thought it was there for a reason. Mr. Tenent may not have been aware of the contents of the speech. Hmmm...yea...could be.

[ QUOTE ]
Sasha said:
Ya know what Ikendu? I consider this post to be baiting. Ya know why? Because you are only posting little bits and pieces. IMO, these bits and pieces are designed to bait others into inflammatory replies. I would ask that you please refrain from this in the future. If you are unaware that you are doing it, then I would suggest that you try to be more aware in the future. Thank you.

Now for the REST of the quote that you conveniently left out...

[ QUOTE ]
"Hold somebody responsible," McCain said. He added, however, that the controversy over the disputed line does not change the justification for going to war because, he said, Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. "The war was totally justified," McCain said.

[/ QUOTE ]



[/ QUOTE ]

Well, Sasha, in a previous thread, I was called "partisan" after I criticized 2 Democarts and 1 Republican in the same thread. ...I guess I should have found another Republican to criticize to be sure everything was even up.

Now, you are telling me that since I didn't post the entire CNN article (I notice that neither did you)...or at least pick the parts that you felt should be posted...that I'm only "posting little bits and pieces".

You'll notice that the title of the article on the CNN site is: "White House: CIA cleared Iraq speech - McCain: 'Hold somebody responsible'. I posted that on the link title so people would know what the link was about.

The quote I pulled out of the article directly relates to the title of the article. The article could have been entitled... "But the war was still justified", although, CNN didn't choose to title it in that way.

I notice that some of the people on the forum consistently try to make my posts about a different topic than I am posting. I'm posting about the issue of who put the mis-leading content into the SOTU and what should be done about. You apparently want to expand my post to include "But wasn't the war still justified?????". If you want to post your own opinion about that related issue, I'm fine with that. But please don't accuse me of baiting or leaving out relevant text unless you also want to accuse CNN of picking the wrong title for their story.

Ahh, the o`l intent and perception merri-go round in action. A good arguement brings life to our "have you seen my new light" forum...thing I like most is when it stops...everyone has to kiss and make up. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif Let the making up begin /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smoker5.gif

The funny thing to me is that same information was quoted over three times by our last president and many more times by the U.N. So why when our current president repetes what he was given, it suddelny becomes his problem? I guess it is a problem when our president is misinformed no matter what political part he/she happens to be in.

Re: McCain calls for investigation and security fi

Sasha,

I don't think Ikendu's post is baiting. I think the accusation is unjustified.

Graham

Re: McCain calls for investigation and security fi

[ QUOTE ]
Graham said:
Sasha,

I don't think Ikendu's post is baiting. I think the accusation is unjustified.

Graham

[/ QUOTE ] I agree.

Re: McCain calls for investigation and security fi

Later today, CNN posted this about the story...

Tenet admits error in approving Bush speech

My question is, what do people think should be done at this point? It is not about whether the war was justified or if Bush did great wrong or lied to us or any number of other things.

Just...if the CIA Director takes responsibility for this error, what should be done?

For my own self, I haven't completely formed my opinion just yet. I'd like to know more about the circumstances that led to the mistake. I do know this, with all of the problems we have that need good, experienced intelligence personnel...I'm not too quick to ask people to resign. Although, if the circumstances would turn out to be negligence (or incompetence)...I suppose that might be appropriate.

Re: McCain calls for investigation and security fi

You all are correct. Ikendu's post is not baiting. It is trolling. I apologize for using the wrong term.

Re: McCain calls for investigation and security fi

ikendu, Sasha and I moderated a political board long before CPF was opened. We can spot flamers and baiters right away. We might be a little rusty because even at it's worse, CPF is really tame compared to what we put up with before. This is heaven compared to what's out there. So we've become a little complacent. Rusty.

Anyways, you're initial post is a classic troll post. Part of the story is summarized. Just the right amount of facts to inflame a targeted group. Not until one opens the article is the full quote found.

Doesn't matter if it's posted on CPF or somewhere else. It's a post designed to inflame. Whether intential or not. Whether a large group or a small group is targeted. That's what it will do. Inflame someone. I'm not asking for sanitary posts. Just a little more thought put into discussions of politics.

P.S. Where did the quote come from?

[ QUOTE ]
"Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, said there should be an investigation to determine how the faulty information made its way into the State of the Union speech and that whoever was responsible for it should be fired."

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: McCain calls for investigation and security fi

I beg to differ regarding so-called "trolling". Headlines are just that. Headlines don't necessarily highlight the complete summary of the statement, just the first line or at most two. Whether or not this is summarizes accurately the jist of the complete report, headline are meant to "arouse interest", not necessarily inflame the readers. I think ikendu just did that. Just like a topic that is just starting out. If the title is too verbose, some will just skip it. If it has already, by its title, presented a premise and conclusion, again, people may skip that since it is obvious. Instead of <font color="red">inflame</font>, I think topics <font color="green">stimulate</font> the potential readers and encourage participation.

Just my 2¢

Ed

Re: McCain calls for investigation and security fi

What you say is true. I agree completely. But he posted more than a headline. And less than a full quote.

Re: McCain calls for investigation and security fi

I'm not impressed that Tenet, a Clinton holdover badly in need of friends, could be convinced to fall on his sword for the president.

I would have expected the CIA would review the information to make sure no spies would die from the disclosure, not that the information is accurate, particularly if they had already commented on the accuracy some time earlier.

I don't have the name, but there was a retired diplomat saying that Cheney's office sent him out 11 months ago to determine if the information was accurate, and that he debunked it then, long before it ended up in the state of the union address. Cheney denies it.

I think it significant that Powell did not use the information in his presentation at the UN. My impression is that Powell has very high ethical standards and rejected the information as not good enough, while the president seems to just latch on to any tidbit that fits his preconcieved world view.

I guess those of us out in the cheap seats won't know the truth until they all write books 20 years from now.

Re: McCain calls for investigation and security fi

Here's a link to the AP release on Tenet's acceptance of responsibility:

AP article on Tenet press release

TSG

Re: McCain calls for investigation and security fi

I don't think it's trolling either.

Re: McCain calls for investigation and security fi

I think it is.

And after posting and lurking in many newsgroups/forums that I had some control in and those that I had absolutely no control in since 1996, I think I'm more than qualified to spot flamers and trollers.

I'm giving this one a pass because I think it's unintentional.

Re: McCain calls for investigation and security fi

Here is some more information on Joseph C. Wilson IV via Andrew Sullivan's link to an NRO article by Clifford May.

VP Cheney sent Mr. Wilson to Niger for (quotes from Mr. Wilson's NYTime Op-Ed) "drinking sweet mint tea and meeting with dozens of people" and that he found it "highly doubtful that any such transaction ever took place."

The NRO item has quite a bit more information on both Mr. Wilson and both sides of the issue.

-Bill