Yeah, dude, so MY torch has TOO much light ? Well,...

From "Whatever happened to the 9P " thread.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cyclops942:
I have the 9Z (the combat version of the 9P), and it's almost too much light (Gasp! Did I just blaspheme?

) for a pocket light. And while, technically speaking, it does fit in my pants pocket, it makes it a tad tough to sit down without being careful.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cyclops, I'm glad you said that.

I really do want something like a 2AA size, small black hole powered, God-Lite, with focusing to sharp beam, but until the 22nd century...

Meantime, I was thinking about the now discontinued 9N, so maybe I should hurry up - but you gotta enjoy deciding on your first high-end small unit.

So did you mean that the 105 or 200 lumen lamp was extravagant ? A 3D mag is about 35 isn't it ?

At what kind of lumenage is a pocket personal defence light considered to begin, as opposed to just a terrific Flashlight to have.Is it as low as only 65, or much more, ( appreciating that 500 lumens must be really something ).
Does this idea work in the real world, outside of deep darkness, or is it in practice just for clearer threat identification.

The Nitech 300,000 c/p I own is very bright and tightly focusing, but doesn't seem as if it would serve as a great deterrent.

( Looks nervously around a dark street )

( EDIT - By the way, my message's reference to *God-Lite's* is intended to be humorous, and not at all meant as disrespectful to Christians or anyone else )

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>A 3D mag is about 35 isn't it ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You may be right. I read that a 5D Maglite is 45 lumens.

Imagine 105 or 200 lumens coming out from that tiny (by comparison) 9P!! Makes me appreciate why Sure Fires are so well regarded. Pity about the short runtime and expensive lithium batteries though.

LL,

I'm not sure if this answers your question or not (probably not), but the "Combat Light" designation that SureFire uses refers to the shape of the barrel and the presence of some rubber grommet-type grips on the light, as well as a tailcap switch, to make it easy to use while aiming and firing a pistol. To my admittedly limited knowledge, the light output has nothing to do with this designation. I'd be happy to be wrong, though, because then we'd have a whole 'nother category of testosterone challenges!

Cyclops, Thanks !

You've answered a point that I've been wondering about, ie, that Combat rings are separate attachments that will ( hopefully ) fit on a straight body Sure-Fire.( 6R, 6P, 9PN )

But your comment on " almost too much " power, was that your view about the 105 or 200 lumen output ?

And actual combat aside, at what lumen level is an " off-putting " civilian self defense light generally considered to begin at - 65, 105, 200 ?

Lite-Lover

I hope this post helps clear things up (and not the other way around!)
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>The SureFire CombatLights do have the "CombatGrip" grommet rings which are designed to allow a better grip when using with a handgun.
<LI>In the case of the Z2/Z3 or Classic 6Z/9Z (also 7Z & 12ZM), & M3/M3T, the CombatGrips are adjustable in a thinned section of the flashlight body for a best fit for your hand which allows for better grip.
<LI>In the case of the C2 & M2, the PocketClip means that there is a 'semi' CombatGrip which is non-adjustable.

<LI>I'm sorry, but SureFire CombatGrips can not be retro-fitted onto straight-bodied SureFire flashlights.
<LI>The 6R had a 7Z CombatLight rechargeable equivalent which I think has been discontinued (there may well be some kicking about).

<LI>The old style SureFire 9N (rechargeable) or the now discontinued 9P are two different flashlights. There is no 9PN.

<LI>The new version of the Classic 9N is the 9AN.

All is not lost though! I once saw a post which had a TACMIII with a "CombatGrip" style grommet accessory which should fit any 1" diameter flashlight (which is the straight-bodied standard diameter of SureFires [excluding 8X/8NX/8AX/9N/9AN]).

<LI>At close range, the E1 can be off-putting! The P61 (120Lu) is pretty nasty. The MN20 (250Lu) starts putting some longer range blinding effect which the MN16 (225Lu) should also be able to do.

<LI>Serious light (500Lu) is off-putting as quite some distance.

<LI>I would say from my experience of blinding people and being blinded by people with my SureFires; <LI>Anything under 100Lu is irritating. <LI>Anything over 100 Lumens is pretty off-putting. <LI>Anything over 200 Lumens is nasty, <LI>Anything over 500 Lumens is just plain cruel!

<LI>I'm getting a ~350Lu MN61 lamp for my 12PM to see how that rates.
<LI>I'm also considering getting a Z20 and using the C2-BK Bezel with my 12PM instead of the 2.5" TurboHead Bezel to see what the P90/P91 light outputs are like.
[/list]Does this clear up any issues?

Al

Yes, thanks, all advices gratefully recieved. Hey, you replied almost in real-time, blindingly fast !

Lite-Lover

Al, aren't you supposed to be revising for your finals ? ( B.Sc in Lighting ? )

No time for revision for my BSc(HONS) Geology Finals starting May 17th.

At the moment, I have these two weeks to right a ten thousand word report of Climate of England from 1200AD-1600AD based on Proxy records.

I need to take a breaks from Continentality of the English Climate as a result of the Little Ice Age. (Can you understand why?

Anyone know if there's a MSc Course in Flashlights?

Laters!

Al

P.S.
Lite-Lover;
Why not visit SpyCatcher in Knightsbridge, London?

jus a litter question
M6 ans 12PM both puts of 500lu using their brighters bulb.
so it there and diff in there beam??
like color,shape,intensity or size??

Yes there is a difference.

I'd say that the M6 MN21 central beam is "bigger" more a 'flood' beam rather than a 'stab'. This could be due to the central beam of the M6 being less well defined.

I would also say that the M6 is slightly brighter and whiter than the 12PM beam. And the M6 obviously maintains this output for far longer [without any thermal shutdown at all]

The M6 MN21 uses shear quantity of light to illuminate down range where as the 12PM N62 has perhaps a slightly tighter beam.

The M6 MN21 beats the N62 by brute rather than class (am I making any sense? [Do I ever?! ])

This is my experience with two N62 Lamps and two MN21 Lamps...

Al

I agree with Al, as usual.

The 12PM just has a tighter beam of light, but they are pretty close. The 12PM will start to dim very quickly, while the M6 will stay pretty bright. I would say the 12PM actually falls between the M6 MN21 lamp (500 lumen) and the M6 MN20 lamp (250 lumen).

Brock

Brock,
It's gonna be interesting comparing the MN61 with the N62 as well as the M6 Lamps. Sounds like I'm gonna be requiring more DL123As!!



Al

Al, thats for sure. I am hopeing the MN61 is just as bright as the regular 12PM lamp (N62) but a tighter spot. Maybe even a bit brighter since the voltage shouldn't drop as much.

Brock

How good am I?! (you don't have to answer that)

Guess what I've just found?! (you can guess if you want, but if you read on, I'll be telling you anyway)

Remember I said that I once saw a TACMIII with a grommet grip...



And there's even a SureFire M2 (old version) for scale!

Al

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Size15s:
How good am I?! (you don't have to answer that) . . .
Al

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks, Al !
You are an British Gentleman

Natch, it goes without saying that the Sure-Fire version is more elegant, but I love all kinds of accessories.

( Now, If I ever do get a ceramic baby Browning .25, with an extended clip, vented and ported, Law 17 deep violet laser sighted,( EDIT - I've just noticed TTS's Lasermax lasers, so in that style ) I'll be able to use it with the Sure-Fire I've yet to buy ! )