CATAPULT OWNERS PLEASE READ - Potential Serious Problem - **SOLVED**

Olef

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Tonight I discovered a potentially catastrophic fault with my ThruNite Catapult serial no 2009100150. I have reported it to ThruNite of course and await their reply but I felt I should post here too in case there are any more like mine out there. I would hate anyone to suffer a problem if I could prevent it.

Quick history - Catapult was purchased in December as a Christmas gift (to me!). Since receipt it has sat on my desk loaded with two AW 2200 protected button-top 18650's. I think I have topped up the cells once or twice. The light has been operated less than 100 times and always for short periods indoors. It has not yet been used 'in anger', it's a shelf (or rather desk) queen.

Tonight I picked it up and as I often do looked down the business end into the reflector (the light was off) - I love that reflector. I was surprised to see what appeared to be a drop of clear liquid at the bottom of the reflector around the emitter. Puzzled, and very aware of the potential for a short circuit, I quickly removed the two 18650's and investigated further.

Upon removal of the head from the light engine I was horrified to find the whole surface around the emitter soaked with the same clear liquid I had seen in the reflector. Looking closer it appears to me that the liquid has come from beneath the white insulating washer that surrounds the emitter and it appears to be present beneath the washer too i.e. all over the star mount and emitter. I have no means of measuring the quantity but judging by eye I would say there is perhaps five or six good sized drops of liquid sat on the surface of the washer and who knows how much more underneath it.

I disassembled the light in order to investigate where this contamination came from. I found no evidence of any liquid anywhere within the light other than on and around the emitter and the base of the reflector. The batteries are perfect. The body tube is dry. The back of the light engine is dry. Taking into account that the light has always sat on my desk head down the only possible place for the liquid to have originated is from within the light engine itself.

I have not done any further investigation pending a response from ThruNite so cannot tell you any more at this stage. My conclusion currently is that the liquid is either contamination from within the light engine from manufacture or perhaps some compound (heatsink paste or sealer) has broken down with the heat (even though the longest the light has run is perhaps ten minutes) and is leaching out the liquid.

I do not know at this stage if the liquid is conductive. Bearing in mind how intolerant Li-Ions are of short circuits I am assuming so until proven otherwise for safety's sake and I am pretty scared as to how close my wife and I have been sleeping with a potential pipe bomb. Overreaction maybe but I think I will be removing all Li-Ions from my lights before bedtime. I admit I am pretty shaken by this.

Here are the pics I took and sent to ThruNite. The first one shows the inside base of the reflector, clear liquid is pretty difficult to photograph but if you look carefully around the right hand side of the emitter opening you can see the liquid from about 11 o'clock round to about 5 o'clock.

_MG_0957.jpg


Here is a shot of the AW cells exactly as they came out of the light. They are completely dry all over and both measure 4.09 volts. This is definitely NOT a battery failure.

_MG_0951.jpg


Here is the back of the light engine. As you can see it is perfectly dry, no contamination whatsoever. The light tube is the same.

_MG_0960.jpg


Finally the shocker. Here is the emitter side of the light engine complete with its puddle of clear liquid. As you can see it is quite literally soaked. (Ignore the strange look of the outer groove in the aluminium, that is simply black cardboard I added as a spacer in order to try and stop my light suffering the popped emitter dome problem others reported.)

_MG_0950.jpg


Sorry for the length of the post but to me this one is potentially serious and I felt you should all have as much info as possible. I will be retiring for the night shortly and I am honestly trying not to imagine 2 18650's in a sealed metal tube shorting out while we slept or even going off during the day when my wife was here alone. Can anyone please reassure me I am over dramatizing this?

I will update the thread with any feedback I get from ThruNite. :(

Olef
 
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kramer5150

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Re: CATAPULT OWNERS PLEASE READ - Potential Serious Problem

At first I thought it would be thermal grease, but thats usually white or metallic gray in the case of AS-5.

You got me on this one!! good luck though, hopefully other owners will chime in with their experience.
 

waddup

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Re: CATAPULT OWNERS PLEASE READ - Potential Serious Problem

you live in england so im assuming its been out in the rain?


:crackup:
 

MrGman

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Re: CATAPULT OWNERS PLEASE READ - Potential Serious Problem

See if you can touch a small sample of this liquid and see if it feels oily like a lubricant or not. You may want to put it in the freezer and see if it freezes like water or not. Those are two easy tests to do to help further identify it.

If its not water or water based, the likelyhood of a potential short out are very low.
 

276

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Re: CATAPULT OWNERS PLEASE READ - Potential Serious Problem

There is similar stuff in mine but i haven't stopped using it. It doesn't seem like water at all and it doesn't taste like it either( yes i did do that) there is no smell to it and it does not seem like a lubricant for threads on anything since they mostly all have a smell ( i could be wrong).
 

stallion2

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Re: CATAPULT OWNERS PLEASE READ - Potential Serious Problem

that is one of the weirdest things i've come across on here.:duh2: sounds like i use mine more than you but i've not had any problems other than the dome popping off. i guess if i wanted one of my lights to have an 'issue' then it would be a Thrunite. they're pretty attentive to any customer service issues. i will definitely be following this thread.

did you taste it? my parents always taught me that if i didn't know what something was then i should taste it or put it in my mouth...its the only reliable way to identify an unknown substance. you should taste it without a moments hesitation and then immediately report your findings back to us. that way, if something happens, you'll have still passed your findings along and your suffering won't be in vain.:thumbsup:
 

e-ville

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Re: CATAPULT OWNERS PLEASE READ - Potential Serious Problem

I just took mine apart and it had the same thing, Im uploading the pictures right now.

it tastes, feels and smells like oil, or some kind of lubricant that may have put on the board underneath the white resin. the only thing i couldnt figure out was the white buildup around the led itself. like its breaking down into the liquid.

i cleaned it all up and left it on for a minute, then took it back apart and the liquid was back. im thinking its not a major issue, but just incase ill be keeping an eye on this thread, great catch!

the oily fluid was also around the base of the head on mine
IMG_0191.jpg


the white build up
IMG_0193.jpg


I ran a Qtip around the led and everything cleaned up, this is what was on the swab
IMG_0194.jpg


after cleaning and leaving it on for a minute the fluid is back (circled here)
IMG_0198.jpg
 
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cocoro1967

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Re: CATAPULT OWNERS PLEASE READ - Potential Serious Problem

Nice to meet you,

I have a CATAPULT two. Both are the same symptoms.
sn:2009090067
sn:2009090322

:bumpit::bumpit:I focus on this thread.:bumpit::bumpit:
 

Stillphoto

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Re: CATAPULT OWNERS PLEASE READ - Potential Serious Problem

Is that milky white area some sort of epoxy potting? Could it be one of the components of this potting leaching out?
 

276

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Re: CATAPULT OWNERS PLEASE READ - Potential Serious Problem

that is one of the weirdest things i've come across on here.:duh2: sounds like i use mine more than you but i've not had any problems other than the dome popping off. i guess if i wanted one of my lights to have an 'issue' then it would be a Thrunite. they're pretty attentive to any customer service issues. i will definitely be following this thread.

did you taste it? my parents always taught me that if i didn't know what something was then i should taste it or put it in my mouth...its the only reliable way to identify an unknown substance. you should taste it without a moments hesitation and then immediately report your findings back to us. that way, if something happens, you'll have still passed your findings along and your suffering won't be in vain.:thumbsup:

relax i only blacked out once.
 

stallion2

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Re: CATAPULT OWNERS PLEASE READ - Potential Serious Problem

when that liquid came back was the emitter sitting face up?
 

ma_sha1

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Re: CATAPULT OWNERS PLEASE READ - Potential Serious Problem

Might be bad choice of matesial for potting. Stick Probe in the liquid & measure the resistance, if non conductive, then you are safe.

Tasting it is risky, might be cacinogens.
 
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SirJMD

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Re: CATAPULT OWNERS PLEASE READ - Potential Serious Problem

See if you can touch a small sample of this liquid and see if it feels oily like a lubricant or not. You may want to put it in the freezer and see if it freezes like water or not. Those are two easy tests to do to help further identify it.

If its not water or water based, the likelyhood of a potential short out are very low.

Thats a quite bad generalization ;)
 

ThruNite

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Re: CATAPULT OWNERS PLEASE READ - Potential Serious Problem

Dear All:

Thank you for posting your concern regarding the Catapult. The oil that you are seeing is actually heatsink grease and is an integral part of the engineering that allows the Catapult to run a heat-generating emitter like the SST-50 on high for extended periods. The heat sink grease is injected into the LED and driver housing during assembly and has proven to be of enormous value in helping to dissipate the heat generated by the large emitter. Occasionally a small amount of heat sink grease can escape through one of several vent holes, but it is non-conductive and non-corrosive and will do no damage to the light. It can simply be wiped off with a clean rag or Q-tip. There are no worries regarding the safety and operability of the light. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me at [email protected]. I will be happy to assist you.


Thanks again and sorry for inconevenience Caused to All.
 

e-ville

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Re: CATAPULT OWNERS PLEASE READ - Potential Serious Problem

when that liquid came back was the emitter sitting face up?


it was sitting face down, it sits on my desk bezel down so i wanted to have a consistent test

EDIT: THANKS THRUNITE!! i love a manufacturer that truly talks to the people!!
 
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Olef

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I received a personal reply from ThruNite this morning basically explaining the same as they did above. They included a picture of the heatsink grease which I will upload when I get home from work for reference. (edit) Here it is -

grease.jpg


I have put a meter across the liquid and confirmed what ThruNite have said. It appears to be non conductive showing infinite resistance and no continuity. It is like a light oil such as 3-in-1 so I am heaving a sigh of relief and will happily clean up and reassemble my Catapult tonight.

Thank you very much ThruNite for a superb product and absolute top quality customer service, you have reconfirmed my faith in both the product and the company :thumbsup: It is a pleasure to do business with you.

Olef
 
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65535

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Probably plain old mineral oil, cheap, non conductive, and completely non toxic. But it is a laxative.

It would be tasteless and is slightly more viscous than water.

Though I personally would not be happy to have it on the emitter dome or the window or reflector as it does screw with the optical properties of whatever surface it's on.

While having the circuit and LED in a suspension of a relatively thermally conductive liquid, it should be sealed better.

BTW even though it sounds like, and I imagine it to be mineral oil. Do not eat it, if I'm wrong it could prove to be pretty bad for you, then again it is ill advised to eat anything you don't know is safe to ingest, so you know, don't be stupid in that regard.
 

Rod911

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Just checked mine and when the reflector head was taken off, there was a round circle of clear liquid left on the white disc. However, it wasn't substantial and it could only be seen if directed towards a light source at an angle.

I don't know if temperature has any affect on this issue, but it's summer here. Regarding my use of the light - probably up to one hour of non-stop use every second day on medium in the wee hours of the morning.
 

LepicFoto

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Just took mine apart, i looks like it is a "oile" from the thermal compound.
Removed the plastic disk from around the emitter. poked a pinhole someware around the outside of the disk, take care the emitter is NOT glued in plase, it is the disk that holdes it center, and tight on the heatsink. remove the thermal compound from around the emitter replase the disk taking chare to aligen the emitter and the square hole in the plastic ring, it goes in rather tight. I use me light to do SAR work and it is the best ever, outshining the old handhelt halogen lights, you just gotta love that light. (pardon my spelling) best regards from the cold north, northern point of denmark, 56°57'50.60"N 10°16'3.92"E
 

looman

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What if the unit was dropped whilst on and a droplet rolls onto the LED lens ?

Unlikely but possible, What does Thrunite suggest as a remedy in the event of this happening please.
 
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