Bloom Energy

RAGE CAGE

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I saw a brief teaser on the TODAY show this morning- a black cube- ceramic fuel cell (Bloom Box) and some type of larger green box like device- about the size of 2 large side by side refrigerators- on of the individuals indicated it is designed to augment and eventually replace the power grid. I have not had time to do any in depth research yet- guess only time will tell.
Rumor of an IPO on Wed.- that will be fun to watch on the NYSE.

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Inside the box, one disc can produce energy to "power a lightbulb" (60 W, assuming a full power lightbulb). The discs are produced from baked sand and then painted on each side with the special ink. In between the discs an inexpensive metal (not platinum) is placed. According to Mr. Sridhar, 64 discs could power a Starbucks.

From the start, the eight-year-old company has been shrouded in secrecy, and its executives remain tight-lipped. But some details are slowly leaking out. Stu Aaron, Bloom Energy's vice-president for marketing and product management, confirms press reports about a University of Tennessee trial in which a Bloom box capable of powering a 5,000-square-foot home proved twice as efficient as a traditional gas-burning system and produced 60% fewer emissions.
The company won't comment on reports that the city of San Jose recently granted online auction giant eBay (EBAY) permission to install five fuel cells from Bloom Energy that will generate up to 500 kilowatts of power, nor that search giant Google (GOOG) is separately testing the system. But Bloom Energy does confirm it's aiming its initial systems at business customers that want to explore whether they can get reliable green energy at the same price or less than they now pay the electric company.

Sridhar figures it will take three to five years before Bloom boxes reach "grid parity" for home use, or price competitiveness with traditional residential-scale electric supplies. Replacing gas stations is expected to take longer, and depends on the emergence of new vehicles. "We are really building an industry, not a company," says Sridhar. "We need an entire supply chain around us to scale."
 
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jtr1962

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Technically, a fuel cell is an energy storage medium rather than a power source. Nevertheless, some form of inexpensive energy storage medium is needed if we are ever to adopt renewables such as solar or wind in order to better match demand to supply. It should be interesting to see if this is the energy breakthrough we've all been waiting for.
 

Flashlight Aficionado

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How many discs will fit in a cr123 flashlight? Hey, I can't believe I am the first to ask this question on this forum. :whistle:
 

wyager

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This appears to be nothing special, just some fuel cells.... I've been messing with these since 3 years ago. It's just energy storage, nothing impressive. And putting them in a battery would be stupid, they have very low energy density and require lots of tubes, tanks, water, and when the gases mix (02 and H) they are explosive.
 

RAGE CAGE

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This appears to be nothing special, just some fuel cells.... I've been messing with these since 3 years ago. It's just energy storage, nothing impressive. And putting them in a battery would be stupid, they have very low energy density and require lots of tubes, tanks, water, and when the gases mix (02 and H) they are explosive.

Make sure and remind all those that are likely to send this IPO to Google like prices real soon......"nothing special here"...move along.
 

TedTheLed

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..significantly they mentioned ONLY ONCE and fleetingly, what and how much fuel the box consumes -- which was either natural gas, or biogas at "about half" the rate of current generators (no discussion of this fact ensued)..and the box costs $200,000 ! You have to be using alot of gas to make that pay off..
and you are still connected to the gas "grid" - dependant on trucks and roads instead of wires..
 

mn_doggie

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60 Minutes did a very good segment on the company last night. They showed several installations (Google, Ebay, etc.) that generate significant amounts of electricity.

It is not a storage device.
 

Kremer

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Technically, a fuel cell is an energy storage medium rather than a power source.

How so as storage? IMHO it is an energy transformation device, from the chemical energy in the fuel to electricity output. Basically a solid state version of using an internal combustion engine to spin a generator.
 

jtr1962

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How so as storage? IMHO it is an energy transformation device, from the chemical energy in the fuel to electricity output. Basically a solid state version of using an internal combustion engine to spin a generator.
In essence it does the same thing as a battery, except the input is liquid fuel instead of electricity. It's not a brand new energy source tapping something we haven't yet tapped, such as zero point energy or fusion. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for any way to store and/or convert energy to a more useful form. A fuel cell is worlds better than an internal combustion engine in terms of noise/emissions. However, this just isn't the breakthrough I had been hoping for which would make our current energy sources obsolete.
 

RAGE CAGE

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However, this just isn't the breakthrough I had been hoping for which would make our current energy sources obsolete.

Well- it could eventually make our current High Tension Transmission system that is in dire need of upkeep obsolete- that would be a start IMHO. Seems like we have an abundance of Natural Gas in the Shale oil fields- enough for 40 or 50 years at least.
 

Kremer

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In essence it does the same thing as a battery, except the input is liquid fuel instead of electricity.

If the fuel was stored internally yes ...but the vapor fuel is piped in, so it's not energy storage, it's just a different method of generating electricity from your choice of fuel.
 

LuxLuthor

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As discussed on 60 Minutes, the most important aspect of this device is to replace/augment/bypass the aging electrical grid with clean, abundant natural gas or other workable fuels. The prototype prices are irrelevant to what mass produced prices would be.

People who think there is only one magic solution to electrical energy supplies are naive. We need all these ideas and new sources in addition to oil, coal, solar, geothermal, ocean, nuclear, wind, bio, hydro--yesterday. Once you have a variety of viable solutions developed and in production, you can start phasing out less desireable sources.
 

TedTheLed

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yes the boxes are neato-
especially if they prove to be durable..
The attitude on 60min was a bit hysterical though, and lacked significant bits of information, which makes one even more skeptical, instead of less..
also it doesn't thrill me that the little box to power a home that they sparked everyone's interest with, wasn't real..yet.
 

Kremer

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I don't think they even mentioned power output at all other than 'light bulb' which is vague. I'd like to know how many kW those double fridge units can deliver.
 

LuxLuthor

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I don't think they even mentioned power output at all other than 'light bulb' which is vague. I'd like to know how many kW those double fridge units can deliver.

Well the direct testimonials and actual $$$ savings from credible Google & EBay customer sources makes it clear that it is at least a possibly viable technology...but any and all energy resources and supplies, new and old should be developed and used until the best rise to the top. I would regard corn ethanol as an abysmal failure...but if they can get switchgrass or some other sensible bio source to work, cool.

60 Minutes has a longstanding reputation of being a dressed up National Enquirer "dog and pony" TV show presenting sensational, highly controlled, one-sided promotional agendas, or oppositional hit pieces, rather than providing balanced, reliable journalism on any topic...so who knows at this point how far Bloom can go.

As the end of my linked Yahoo story says:

Indeed, as experts point out, there are still many questions that remain about the Bloom Box, which until Sunday's 60 Minutes interview had been shrouded in secrecy. The mystique surrounding the company has certainly added to the excitement preceding its Wednesday launch.


"The hype to some extent is good because it's bringing new attention" to fuel cell technology, says Mr. Makower, much the same way the buzz around Tesla has brought new attention to the electric car market.


"If he can reach $3,000 for a 1 or 2 kilowatt system that provides both heat and power, that's a real game changer. But the real question is delivering," says Pernick.



Pernick says he's encouraged by the silicon technology that Bloom is using to make its fuel cells, but still has many questions. And, he says, "there's no one technology that's going to change everything in electricity. These transitions take decades, not years."
 
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