M60/M60L; 2 or 3 Cell...

OK, I need help deciding, and I have OCD and don't have enough money to own both configs for both drop-ins...I have a C2, a C3, an M60, and an M60L...

Which malkoff should I run in which? I kept the M60 in the C2 for the longest time due to it's more compact nature and an older KL3 on the C3. I just got a replacment HA Bezel in for my C3 again, and now want to run malkoff's in both.

Being as the M60 is brighter, and therefore more useful (generally speaking), should I put it in the C3 to have the brighter light longer? Or use the M60L in the C3 for an ultra long runtime light??? Opions welcome and wanted! Which would you do and why? Please help me with my indecisiveness!!!

(I'm sure this will help other CPF'ers looking at these two drop-in's/lights as well...)

Thanks in advance!

I have similar choices, and decided to put the brighter Malkoff into the 9p (3 cells like your C3), and the lower power into a 2 cell SF. In a emergency power outage, though, I might settle for the lower light output of the M60L and want the longer runtime by having it in the 3 cell host. It's an easy enough swap if and when that kind of event occurred. In the meantime, I want the maximum performance out of the M60. All the above assume you are using primaries in the C3, and not rechargeables!

I understand your conundrum a little too well, I think about this almost daily. :tinfoil:

Question: What cells are you using, CR123's or LiIon rechargeables - 2x17500 in the C3 and what in the C2?

Edit: BTW I would prefer having the full-power M60 in the C3. One reason being that cells are less efficient (containing less usable watt-hours) at high drain rates. As the M60 will have a higher drain rate than the M60L, I'd rather let the more demanding LED module utilize three CR123's in series rather than two (~7.5v vs ~5.0v). As you can see from the data below, providing a greater voltage to the M60 regulation circuit results in a substantial decrease in overall current draw, which would be easier on each of the three CR123's. With the M60L, this is less of an issue - that lower-drain module is far less demanding on the cells (no matter what the configuration), so your 2 CR123's will be at least comparably efficient in that case.

MrGman said:

M60__from Regulated power supply,
Volts___amps___watts______,
3.0_____0.09____0.27__,
3.2_____0.22____0.70__,
3.5_____0.38____1.33__,
3.6_____0.51____1.84__,
3.8_____0.66____2.51__,
4.0_____0.86____3.44__,
4.2_____1.08____4.54__,
4.5_____0.85____3.83__,
4.7_____0.88____4.14__,
5.0_____0.80____4.00__, At 5.0v from 2x CR123, the drain should be 0.80 amps
5.5_____0.74____4.07__,
6.0_____0.69____4.14__,
7.0_____0.60____4.20__, For 3x CR123, this interpolates to ~7.5v, 0.58 amps - much easier on the cells.
7.9_____0.56____4.42__, This also results in sightly more overall wattage than from 2x CR123, 4.3 watts vs 4.0 watts - a brighter M60. :thumbsup:
8.0_____0.53____4.24__,
8.4_____0.50____4.20__,
8.5_____0.49____4.17__,
9.0_____0.47____4.23__,
9.5_____0.45____4.28__,

Click to expand...

[comments above made by me]

I ran some calculations comparing these two situations a while ago and IIRC I came up with the result that CR123's could deliver ~10% more total watt-hours when in the lower amperage configuration (3x 2.5 = 7.5v and .6 amps) than in the higher amperage configuration (2x 2.5 = 5.0v and .8 amps). In other words, a small amount of free energy from each of the three cells compared to using just two cells. (And again, this behavior shouldn't really show up with the M60L - it's much gentler on the cells to begin with, so you don't really gain any additional efficiency by going to the third cell.


Theoretically (regarding the M60L), that is. Check the following out:

Interesting thing:
The behavior of the M60L hasn't been documented as well as the M60 & M60LL on various voltages. What is most interesting is that the output of the M60LL, while rated for normal operation on 2x CR123, provides considerably higher output from 3xCR123 (& 2xLiIon) per data collected by BigWaffles in his 'Runtime Graphs' thread, resulting in less runtime than it has on 2xCR123 - very interesting behavior indeed. The behavior of the M60L in this situation has not been documented, but if it had greater output (and less runtime) on the 'third cell' (as the M60LL does), this would complicate your choice somewhat.

Hmmm, I have my M60LL in a G2 in the car, now what is in the polished 9P in the car..... think it's a M60.

G2 - LOOONG run time in case of emergency.
9P bright & longer run time than in the G2.

Of course there are also extra batteries in the pelican case with the 9P. :candle::candle:

Wow...thanks for all the useful info guys! Especially those draw and wattage rates Kestrel. That seals the deal for me. I had my M60F running in an older 6Z w/ A19 and I think I'll keep it there. Oh, I run everythnig off SF primaries (even all my R/C set-ups use B65's). Now I just need to get one more malkoff so I have a r/c malkoff set-up (currently using a P60L in a D3 body with an A14).

And yes, Kestrel, I always find myself swapping parts at least ten times eveytime I get a new part, whether it be a new tail-cap, bezel, body, until I find the PERFECT set-up. I just recently got a black clickie and now have a G3D-BK (sweet set-up btw...will get some pic's up soon...). Oh, and the malkoffs don't seem to fare so well with the B65's (5.85'ish fully charged)...too much draw for 4 low capacity cells???

Those M60LL's worth it Nfetterly? I've been loooking at them, but the M60L seems to be the right balance, as the M60 is usually too bright for indoor app's...but since I've been using my Kroma and U2 recently on there low settings, a lower out-put malkoff may be just what I'm looking for??? How would you sum them up compared to the 60 and 60L??? Or even to the outputs of the P60L?

Thanks again guys!

I'd go for the brighter module on the C3.

Off topic I have a Lux III KL3 and put a beam diffuser on it. A very nice long running soft flood light.

Hilariously, I have an M60LF in my G3 and an M60 in my E2e. The choice is yours. It's not permanent, you can always swap them around.

For $25 more you can get a cell extender for your C2 and have the option of having 2 3 celled lights. The downside is that a cell extender on the C2 tube is butt ugly.

I would put the brighter module on the 2 cell format. Shock and Awe! I have a C2 and prefer the latest BOG Cree drop-in over the Malkoff. For the C3 I would put the longer running module on it.

IMO, M60 is best in a 2x18650 lite or maybe 3x123, I would not put it in a 6P sized lite. Shorter runtime, not as efficient.

I like M60L in a 6P clone, works nicely.

I have M60LL in a 9P clone, where I can use it with either 2x18500, 3x123 or 2xAA for maximum flexibility.

Well, for those willing to use RC batteries...

Put the M60 in the 9P format (the C3) and use 2x18500's. You get power AND runtime quite economically that way.

The M60LL can be used in the 6P format (the C2) with a 1x18650 (the 2600 mA from AW) and get pretty long runtimes.

The M60L is a kind of gray area, probably in your case put it in the C2 and use primaries is the best solution, since it has decent runtimes and output in that format (what it was designed to do).

I realize the SF's may have issues with handling the width of the RC batteries, which is why these systems work best w/ clones, aftermarket parts, etc. Boring of the C'x battery tubes may be possible (though personally I wouldn't do it if I had C'x's, which I don't of course).

The M60 should be run on rechargeables, hands down.

Free lumens on such a powerful light just RULE!!!!

So either in the 6P on 2xRCR123s.

Or C3 on 2x18500s.

Your choice :nana::nana::nana::tinfoil:

flashy bazook said:

Put the M60 in the 9P format (the C3) and use 2x18500's. You get power AND runtime quite economically that way.

Click to expand...

Tried that for about a year and it's "OK" but the problem is, 18500 cells have stayed behind the latest and the greatest developments in 18650s. I have AW's cells and the capacity is only 1500 mAh, where as a single 18650 now is 2,900 mah from a reputable maker such as Panasonic.
18650 is just marginally bigger than 18500 but has so much more mAh. This is the reason I decided not to mess with 18500s at all.
That and the fact that I salvaged dozens and dozens from laptop cell packs, 18650 is a much more common cell.

This means that M60 on one 18650 gives you better runtime than on two 18500s. Granted, you get more lumens with the latter. Of course that's not the only reason why that is so.

Stalking again, Bullfrog??? LOL! Unfortunately, I don't have 18650's. I do have plent of B65 config's though...it's just the M60 didn't seem to last too long on these (not sure of the MaH rating of the B65 though). And since my M60 (in what ever host) is my bedside light that accompanies my Smith & Wesson, I prefer to use primaries. I am using my M60F in an old 6Z though, using RCR123's with pretty good results. Maybe when I get to the sand-box, I'll start using the M60 w/ my B65's???

As far as using other host's, etc., flashy bazook, I prefer to keep my stuff all genuine. I did buy a A19 clone one time...and it wouldn't screw onto any of my lights cause the crappy threads :thumbsdow. So now I just use genuine SF parts with my malkoff's.

Haha - you know it.

I guess a lot depends on what you will be doing with the light - regarding my M60 (and now M61 which I will run exactly the same - RCRs), I use it for taking the dogs out or to check the backyard. Either way I do not ever need more than 30 minutes of runtime in this scenario and then the cells are back on the charger.

Self defense and combat scenarios are a different story in my book - when you get back other "there" are you responsible for paying for your own CR123s? Either way, in that situation, I dont think I'd want to use RCRs for the same reason you keep primaries in your SF next to your bed...

Well one thing is for sure - Malkoffs rule! Especially since they are so easy to swap from host to host (where most of the fun is ) and tailor the specific setup for the specific need...

P.S. Just to make your decision that much harder, I'd recommend adding another Malkoff into the mix and picking up an M60LL from Gene while they are still at $39... Especially as an emergency light they just cannot be beat. I think its overlooked a lot, but the M60LL is roughly the same output as a Surefire P60L, but with much longer regulated runtime. The LL is still my favorite Malkoff :green:

There is nothing "Low" about M60LL, it's a very bright lite on 3x123 or 2x18650. It may be 'low' compared to M60.

Checking Malkoff's website, the M60LL is out of stock.

I am guessing it's permanently out of stock.

carrot said:

Checking Malkoff's website, the M60LL is out of stock.

Click to expand...

etc said:

I am guessing it's permanently out of stock.

Click to expand...

Wow when I ordered mine with my M61 a few weeks ago I swear there were over 100 units in stock...

Oh would I love an M61LL - and a Warm would be even better...

I would use the M60/61 on the 3 cell body. Ideally, it would be a MD3 body so I could use the 2 level ring and change out the heads as necessary. Still, the M60L and M60LL seem to be very efficient on 2 primaries, so it would be hard for me to rationalize going to a bigger setup.

Regarding the M60LL, there were 30+ last week when I ordered mine, and they were at that level for a long time before that. I wonder what happened to them? From all reports, this dropin seems to be the most versatile of the bunch. Good thing I got one before they disappeared.

angelofwar said:

As far as using other host's, etc., flashy bazook, I prefer to keep my stuff all genuine. I did buy a A19 clone one time...and it wouldn't screw onto any of my lights cause the crappy threads :thumbsdow. So now I just use genuine SF parts with my malkoff's.

Click to expand...

And if you want to use a 18650 rechargeable battery, how do you do it using "genuine" SF parts?

The whole logic of using after market parts is to get what you want by mixing and matching. Using a "genuine" SF body to start with does not make any sense for this purpose since you pay way over what you need to achieve your objective.

And, by the way, a Leef body is actually better than the "genuine" SF 6P body, just check the quality of the knurling, the solidity and strength of the part, the looks, etc.