Deft FTP vs. Dereelight Aspherical R2

Hi folks,

I have on loan a Deft FTP and a Dereelight R2 Aspherical. I wasn't too impressed with the throw of the Deft and expected more, so I purchased the Dereelight R2 just for testing to confirm my suspision.

I have Lux meter: Model CA813 by AEMC and took peak lux readings of both. I made sure I was exactly 1 meter away and I topped off the 4 Eneloops on the DEFT FTP just to be fair.

With both lights focused to project the square die at 5 and 10 feet I got this:

DEFT FTP = 60.6K lux
Dereelight R2 single mode = 68.5k lux

Then I took them out of focus little by little untill I got highter lux readings from both. Interestingly enough they both produce more lux way way out of focus. Here is what I got when defocused:

DEFT FTP = 105.6k lux
Dereelight R2 single mode = 75.9k lux

I had 4 other CPF members over at my home yesterday and we were all super excited to actually see a DEFT in person. At around 300 yards I they looked about as bright and identical throw. Perhaps it was the ambient light or I need to bump it up to 500 plus yards to clearly see which one is king of throw, but this will likely happen this weekend.

Here is the Dereelight


This is the DEFT FTP with the Aspherical Removed:


Here is my testing grounds:

Reserved..

for 500 yard beamshoots and more testing.

Either your DEFT is bad or your Dereelight is extremely good, in my test the DEFT was nearly twice the brightness of Dereelight and I did only use alkaline in the DEFT. You can see the test here.

Interesting!

I have the original Deft (with precollimator) and a Dereelight Asperical (equiped with a Q4/5A).

As I have no meter, I only rely on my eyes and the Deft is the clear winner, by far in terms of throw...

Wow...this should be interesting!

I honestly expected the DEFT to be clearly brighter, but myself and the other members who saw them side by side yesterday would agree that it is not.

It may seem to offer a tiny bit more light at 300 yards, but it may be our eyes or the price tag bias.

I think this is exactly why I need to do 500 yard beamshoot and review.


These are the OTF readings of the DEFT FTP
DEFT FTP___________________________R2 w/ No Aspheric_____________ 4 Eneloop Pack______________________ 259.2________________ 1 sec
DEFT FTP___________________________R2 w/ No Aspheric______________ 4 Eneloop Pack_______________________ 240.0________________ 30 sec
DEFT FTP___________________________R2 w/ No Aspheric______________ 4 Eneloop Pack_______________________ 235.4________________ 1 min
DEFT FTP___________________________R2 w/ No Aspheric______________ 4 Eneloop Pack_______________________ 224.6________________ 2 min
DEFT FTP___________________________R2 w/ No Aspheric______________ 4 Eneloop Pack_______________________ 223.1________________ 3 min

This is what the Derelight w/Aspherical and with the DBS reflector:
Dereelight DBS R2 pill____________ Dereelight R2 single mode____________1 IMR 18650_______________________225.4_________________ 1 sec
Dereelight DBS R2 pill______________ Dereelight R2 single mode______________1 IMR 18650_______________________213.8_________________ 30 sec
Dereelight DBS R2 pill______________ Dereelight R2 single mode______________1 IMR 18650_______________________209.2_________________ 1 min
Dereelight DBS R2 pill______________ Dereelight R2 single mode______________1 IMR 18650_______________________204.6_________________ 2 min
Dereelight DBS R2 pill______________ Dereelight R2 single mode______________1 IMR 18650_______________________202.3_________________ 3 min
Dereelight Aspherical ____________ Dereelight R2 single mode____________1 IMR 18650_______________________140.8_________________ 1 sec
Dereelight Aspherical ______________ Dereelight R2 single mode______________1 IMR 18650_______________________137.7_________________ 30 sec
Dereelight Aspherical______________ Dereelight R2 single mode______________1 IMR 18650_______________________135.4_________________ 1 min
Dereelight Aspherical______________ Dereelight R2 single mode______________1 IMR 18650_______________________133.8_________________ 2 min
Dereelight Aspherical______________ Dereelight R2 single mode______________1 IMR 18650_______________________133.1_________________ 3 min

HKJ,
Hope you don't mind me using these for now. What was the distance on these longshots of yours?


Deft OMG the original


Here is your DBS Dereelight pix




HKJ,

I borrowed your pictures for now to show how you saw the DEFT was clearly brighter. I saw your review when you published it and was expecting the same results you got. For the record I have the DEFT FTP, which is not identical to the one you tested. If I am not mistaken the new FTP is suppose to be driven at 1.4A, brighter, and more throw to boot.

Well thanks for the test. I would say something is not adding up here though. I'm not saying that this is the problem but your lux test should absolutely not be taken so close. The beam has not reached maturation at that point and will bear little resemblance to reality. Your eyes are another thing. The FTP should appear brighter to your eyes. I wonder how you guys had the beam "tuned". It takes some work for me at times to get it in the sweet spot. If you tore the light down it may not have gone back together the same as received. When I sent it to Criag my instructions were to make sure to get familiar with how the beam should appear before doing a tear down. I just started gluing the pre-collimator in place to avoid having owners inadvertently knocking it out of place but that was not done on the tester. Don't know that that is the problem though. I am leaning more that way because the output numbers I see from your test look right. That makes me think that it can not be driver issues. Can you double check the output in the sphere again to make sure it is still where it is supposed to be?

bigchelis said:

If I am not mistaken the new FTP is suppose to be driven at 1.4A, brighter, and more throw to boot.

Click to expand...

Just saw this. Actually the FTP is run at less amperage than the Enthusiast model which HKJ tested. The lens on the FTP has a revised profile which has less chromatic aberration and so slightly better collimation of the beam. Even at the reduced amp levels the DEFT should still beat the DBS easily.

I think the only way to evaluate these two lights is to aim them towards an infinite distance, and see which goes farthest. I think that might be more revealing, than trying to evaluate brightness intensity at a fixed distance.

bigchelis said:

HKJ,
Hope you don't mind me using these for now. What was the distance on these longshots of yours?

....


HKJ,

I borrowed your pictures for now to show how you saw the DEFT was clearly brighter. I saw your review when you published it and was expecting the same results you got. For the record I have the DEFT FTP, which is not identical to the one you tested. If I am not mistaken the new FTP is suppose to be driven at 1.4A, brighter, and more throw to boot.

Click to expand...

It is ok that you uses the images. The distance is somewhere between 100 and 200 meter. In the same beamshot I also did a lux measurement at 4 meter and the DEFT had about 80% more lux than the Dereelight.
I used alkaline batteries in the DEFT, that might reduce the maximum output. I have promised saabluster that I will include it with lithium batteries, next time I do a big thrower/HID comparison.

I'd put good money down that testing the lights at a longer distance will show a very different story. The tip off is the increase in lux when defocused - focused is the farthest throwing, but if the beam hasn't gone far enough to collimate effectively shifting the focus too close (defocusing for any practical use) would result in higher readings.

You folks were right.

I re-took the readings by moving the meter exactly 5 meters away from my table. Now, the DEFT offers about 50% more lux.:thumbsup: I fixed the beam to focus the die image as perfect and intense as possible on both lights with topped off cells for both.

AT 5 meters:

DEFT FTP = 4,900 lux

DBS Aspherical R2 = 2,500

bigchelis said:

You folks were right.

I re-took the readings by moving the meter exactly 15 meters away from my table. Now, the DEFT offers about 50% more lux.:thumbsup: I fixed the beam to focus the die image as perfect and intense as possible on both lights with topped off cells for both.

AT 15 meters:

DEFT FTP = 4,900 lux

DBS Aspherical R2 = 2,500

Click to expand...

Wow, thats quite an improvement. FWIW, we were taking that poor deft apart and playing around with it all night... like 4 monkeys in a lab. Good to know a little adjustment goes a long way. (drum roll please)

bigchelis said:

You folks were right.

I re-took the readings by moving the meter exactly 15 meters away from my table. Now, the DEFT offers about 50% more lux.:thumbsup: I fixed the beam to focus the die image as perfect and intense as possible on both lights with topped off cells for both.

AT 15 meters:

DEFT FTP = 4,900 lux

DBS Aspherical R2 = 2,500

Click to expand...

I'm not the greatest at math but isn't that almost like 100% more? Thanks for retesting.:thumbsup: I'd be interested to see it tested from even farther. I think the DEFT can actually perform even slightly better than that. One thing to note when tuning the DEFT. I do not aim to have a perfect projection of the LED die with all its current spreaders visible. Part of my design is that this does not happen as I think having the lines in the beam is distracting. It should be a square shape but the key is to find the balance of red and blue in the matured beam. Tuning has to be done at closer to a hundred feet to be best. I am quite used to it myself. When it is in tune the beam at 32' or so will look like an even tint across the beam but on the fringe will be a slight purple color with blue just to the outside of that. This fringe color is not really seen when in use at the intended distance.

Just as a side note the highest lux numbers will come by aiming the area of the LED just inside of where the bond wires connect. The current density is highest there and therefore the surface brightness is highest there.

That's not just 100% more for the Deft, but the DBS has only 50% less... :duh2:

I tested the two lights on a big building about 500 meters away, a litle less perhaps. While you see the beam of the DBS (Q4, remember...), the Deft actually lights the building up, looks like double brightness to my eyes or so!

kramer5150 said:

we were taking that poor deft apart and playing around with it all night.

Click to expand...

gr, we have no "jealous" smiley.

csshih said:

gr, we have no "jealous" smiley.

Click to expand...

Dont worry Craig the DEFT FTP survived.

I want to point out that my LUX Readings were at 1 meter initially, then at 5 meters. It slipped my mind that 5 meters is not 15 meters.

To get the most lux from the aspherics you want the die slightly out of focus. If you can see the die clearly you're not where you want to be. You almost need a lux meter to find the sweet spot. Keep adjusting the focus until you get the highest reading. Basically you want it to look like you are taking the die's clear image and de-focusing it a bit, but you should see an intense hot spot appear in the middle of the image of the die.

bigchelis said:

Dont worry Craig the DEFT FTP survived.

I want to point out that my LUX Readings were at 1 meter initially, then at 5 meters. It slipped my mind that 5 meters is not 15 meters.

Click to expand...

5 meters makes much more sense, you had me quite confused :duh2:

I do the same thing, I have no 'mental image' of how far 5 meters is, so I convert it to 15 feet in my head.

Interesting point about focusing aspherics, I wasn't aware that defocusing made a slightly more intense small hotspot (though I assume the overall output drops quite a bit).