How to make XPG throw further than XRE? Use a better Collimation! - A DEFT Clone Exp.

XPG has a Surface area 2x of XRE, in most cases, one would not be able to achieve more throw with XPG, especially in same size flashlight. The experiment below will be comparing XRE R2 vs. XPG R5, they may be shorted as "R2" & "R5" respectively.

This experiment used a DEFT Clone, the DX Shower head host with a 68mm head (~2.7 inch). It look like DEFT, except that DEFT host is even bigger (80mm head), which is too big for my liking & also only available in Black (Also from DX) & I like the bare Alu. version better. So, I decided to go with this DEFT little brother as start.

Left to Right:

Mag 1C, Mag 1C Clone, DEFT Clone/DEFT Jr., Mag 2C.


This is a size half way between mag & DEFT. I was able to fit a much larger Aspherical lens from DX: 13618. 66mm lens.
I had to grind down the edge of the lens to make it go in, not too bad, 15-20min job on a mini grinder.
Here is how it looked next Mag bezel:




The most challenging part is the lack of space above the switch, there's only 10mm space, in order to get the LED to the focal point of this big lens with longer focal point, I had to:
1. Grind open the inside of Bezel opening, to push the lens out by 2mm or so.
2. Make a Copper "Reverse Heat sink', kind like a copper cup to hold the LED inside & deep, pretty much sitting on top of the switch. I used XPG R5 on 14mm board from Kai & glued down with thermo adhesive.

The heat sink is made by two pieces: a bottom copper disk & a copper tube section, they are soldered together & then further grind down to fit tight above the switch with Thermo paste between the Heat sink Cup & the flashlight.




Because the lack of space, there is NO room for any driver.
Luckily, the flashlight comes with a 4AA battery holder. So I hardwired one
location to turn it into a 3AA holder. Now the finished light is ready for testing:
(Note, the switch is a 3 position switch, I am only using on/off function, so the way it works now is On/off/off/On,
instead of on/off/on/off, not a big deal)

In between the Mags, Left is Mag 1C clone with 50mm Aspehrical, XRE R2 driven to 1Amp.
Right DEFT Jr. with 66mm Aspherical lens, XPG R5, Direct Drive on 3AA Ultimate Lithium 1.75V batteries.


Beam shots are: Left = XRE R2, Right = XPG R5, Distance is about 20 ft.
The Cat at the left doesn't like me right now, as I shined in her eyes & temporarily blinded her :shakehead



Same as above, just reduced exposure so you can tell the spot brightness apart.
You can see that the bigger lens was able to colinmate the XPG R5 to a spot smaller than the XRE R2 spot (Which is already tiny). Also, the XPG spot is noticibly brighter than the XRE spot, therefore will achieve further throw!



I've also tested it with 3AA Eneloop NIMN & 3AAA Alk. batteries,
both worked similarly & both are very bright, but the Ultimate Lithium AA is noticibly brighter than both.

Re: How to make XPG throw further than XRE -- A DEFT Clone Experiment

I'd like two dog buiscuits and some pepper please:nana:.


Hahaha.... Just kidding. On a serious note, nice work:thumbsup: as usual.


Casey

Re: How to make XPG throw further than XRE -- A DEFT Clone With Better Collimation

ti-force said:

I'd like two dog buiscuits and some pepper please:nana:.


Hahaha.... Just kidding. On a serious note, nice work:thumbsup: as usual.


Casey

Click to expand...

Thanks!

I'll include some free dog buiscuits with pepper if I decide to sell the build later on BST.

Re: How to make XPG throw further than XRE -- A DEFT Clone Experiment

ma_sha1 said:

Beam shots are: Left = R2, Right = XPG R5, Distance is about 20 ft.

Click to expand...

Have you seen Carrot's thread "Stop referring to LEDs by their bin code"?

Apart from that, you've rather effectively proved everyone wrong who said the XP-G will never throw better than the XR-E. Well done.

Edit: Hm, what sort of current is that XP-G drawing?

Re: How to make XPG throw further than XRE -- A DEFT Clone Experiment

Unless I'm missing something, you're putting a smaller lens over the XR-E than the one over the XP-G and then saying that the XP-G can throw further. I fail to see how that proves that the XP-G can throw further, given the inequalities in the setups. What happens if you swap the LEDs? I suspect that if you did that, the XR-E would have a smaller and brighter spot than the XP-G in that setup.

Don't get me wrong, it's good work, but I'm just not sure how valid this is.

Re: How to make XPG throw further than XRE -- A DEFT Clone Experiment

TorchBoy said:

Have you seen Carrot's thread "Stop referring to LEDs by their bin code"?

Apart from that, you've rather effectively proved everyone wrong who said the XP-G will never throw better than the XR-E. Well done.

Edit: Hm, what sort of current is that XP-G drawing?

Click to expand...

Thanks, I don't know the current, actually, I can't even measure the tail cap
AMP even if I have an amp meter. The battery carrier have both positive & negative on the same end.

Re: How to make XPG throw further than XRE -- A DEFT Clone Experiment

Th232 said:

Unless I'm missing something, you're putting a smaller lens over the XR-E than the one over the XP-G and then saying that the XP-G can throw further. I fail to see how that proves that the XP-G can throw further, given the inequalities in the setups. What happens if you swap the LEDs? I suspect that if you did that, the XR-E would have a smaller and brighter spot than the XP-G in that setup.

Don't get me wrong, it's good work, but I'm just not sure how valid this is.

Click to expand...

I am not trying to say XPG will always throw further, in fact, my opening line indicated that one would not throw further with XPG than XRE if everyting being equal.

To make a XPG light throw further than a particular XRE light, one just need to kick it up a notch.

Throw of led light is a combination of LED Surface brightness + Collimation.
XPG (2mm die area) driven to 500 lumen will have the same surface brightness as XRE (1mm die area) driven to 250 lumen. Once you match the surface brightness, then put a better collimation system on the XPG, you can beat any particular XRE thrower you set as target, but it doesn't mean another light can not be built & improved based on XRE & come back to beat the particular XPG light.

Re: How to make XPG throw further than XRE -- A DEFT Clone Experiment

ma_sha1 said:

I am not trying to say XPG will always throw further, in fact, my opening line indicated that one would not throw further with XPG than XRE if every ting being equal.

To make a XPG light throw further than a particular XRE light, one just need to kick it up a notch.

Click to expand...

My apologies, when I read your first line:

XPG has a Surface area 2x of XRE, in most cases, one would not be able to achieve more throw with XPG, especially in same size flashlight.

Click to expand...

I must have been reading it differently to how you intended. I suspect several others were also under that impression, thank you for the clarification.

Re: How to make XPG throw further than XRE -- A DEFT Clone Experiment

Very nice ..... :thumbsup:

The projected beam looks a lot better than the XRE, a nice square blob
Looking at your comparsion photos, it looks as if the XPG beam has none
of the rainbow rings that the XRE normally has.

Re: How to make XPG throw further than XRE -- A DEFT Clone Experiment

tx101 said:

Very nice ..... :thumbsup:

The projected beam looks a lot better than the XRE, a nice square blob
Looking at your comparsion photos, it looks as if the XPG beam has none
of the rainbow rings that the XRE normally has.

Click to expand...

Thanks tx101. I like the square blob better as well, it doesn't have the
"battery button top" look of the XRE die, which would look annoying if you have "button top" upside down or side ways.

Also with "less rings", perhaps due to XPG doesn't have a metal ring around the die so it looks cleaner?

Overall, this is a pleasing spot, I wonder What if I drive it with 1 C Li-ion
DD? The current will probably pump up to 2-2.5 Amp range, I think
the XPG with copper cup sink can handle it.

Imagine over 500 lumens pumped into a spot smaller than XRE Aspehrical

It will not out throw the DEFT which has even bigger lens, but probably out-throw just about any other LED light except DEFT?

Re: How to make XPG throw further than XRE -- A DEFT Clone Experiment

ma_sha1,

Nice work as always. I very much enjoy your custom work and creativity!!

A little off topic here, but I am trying to get my hands on some newer Ledil optics (regina/tina) for use in a multi XPG build. It certainly won't compete with your current DEFT clone, but I'm hoping to get better throw than what is currently available. Perhaps some smaller (~18-20mm) custom aspherics would do the trick for multi XPG mods (like Led Zep's black dog here).

Re: How to make XPG throw further than XRE -- A DEFT Clone Experiment

Ma_Sha,

If you ever make these available, I'd love one especially in an 18650x2 format :twothumbs

Great Work!

Ray

Re: How to make XPG throw further than XRE -- A DEFT Clone Experiment

Thanks!

I made a 3x XPG on LXP Optics, it throw better than P7 but not as far as SSR-50 on 5 Amp(SSR-50 on 5 AMP had almost mag85 level of throw).

Usually, multi Aspherical will throw further than Multi Reflector of same diameter, but it's a pain to align the spot up thou.

Hill said:

ma_sha1,

Nice work as always. I very much enjoy your custom work and creativity!!

A little off topic here, but I am trying to get my hands on some newer Ledil optics (regina/tina) for use in a multi XPG build. It certainly won't compete with your current DEFT clone, but I'm hoping to get better throw than what is currently available. Perhaps some smaller (~18-20mm) custom aspherics would do the trick for multi XPG mods (like Led Zep's black dog here).

Click to expand...

Re: How to make XPG throw further than XRE -- A DEFT Clone Experiment

Kid9P said:

Ma_Sha,

If you ever make these available, I'd love one especially in an 18650x2 format :twothumbs

Great Work!

Ray

Click to expand...

Thanks! I don't do custom runs, just make lights for fun. Too many ideas, too little time. Although I do end up selling just about everything I make, it seems the coolest ideas can only be the next ideas.

This host will not fit 2x18650. However, if you take a Silver Mag 2C head & grind down the head, you can make an adaptor for this "Turbo head" to go on Mag 2C & the run 2x18650 from there. Lots of lots of grinding thou

Re: How to make XPG throw further than XRE -- A DEFT Clone Experiment

ma_sha1 said:

Thanks tx101. I like the square blob better as well, it doesn't have the
"battery button top" look of the XRE die, which would look annoying if you have "button top" upside down or side ways.

Also with "less rings", perhaps due to XPG doesn't have a metal ring around the die so it looks cleaner?

Overall, this is a pleasing spot, I wonder What if I drive it with 1 C Li-ion
DD? The current will probably pump up to 2-2.5 Amp range, I think
the XPG with copper cup sink can handle it.

Imagine over 500 lumens pumped into a spot smaller than XRE Aspehrical

It will not out throw the DEFT which has even bigger lens, but probably out-throw just about any other LED light except DEFT?

Click to expand...

Couldnt agree with you more on that :thumbsup:

I think your right on the metal ring around the die :twothumbs

I'm tempted to junk my XRE in my Mag 2C aspheric and replace it with
a XPG now

Re: How to make XPG throw further than XRE -- A DEFT Clone Experiment

I agree that the thread title is misleading. How would you feel about a title change? You have reason to be proud of your build, but misleading titles just cause confusion. The new title should not imply that the XPG will throw further than the XRE all else equal. I'm just waiting for Saabluster to chime in on this thread.

Aside from that though, I am a fan of your work and this is a really nice build you have here. Well done. :thumbsup:

Re: How to make XPG throw further than XRE -- A DEFT Clone Experiment

Thanks!

I have changed the title, I hope everyone is happy now

To me the title was fine, it makes a point across that because LED is one of the two key factors in throw, (not the only factor) to make one throw further than the other, you just need to make a better collimation system.

I am having a hard time coming up with a short title to deliver the same message. I think "Miss leading" has more to do with the XPG/XRE/Throw subject matter, rather than the title itself. Plus, anyone who read the first sentence would realize the clear intentions I have.

Anyways, for now, I added "better collimation" to the title to avoid being viewed as "XPG throw better XRE period" :sigh:

Re: How to make XPG throw further than XRE - A DEFT Clone With Better Collimation

The title now reads:

"How to make XPG throw further than XRE - A DEFT Clone With Better Collimation"


I hope now it won't make people think that I am claiming a better collimation than DEFT, as I am not.

Re: How to make XPG throw further than XRE - A DEFT Clone With Better Collimation

I have to agree with Muddy. I know you know that the XR-E will always out throw the XP-G when used with the same optic setup but the title leads people down a wrong path from the get-go. The evidence of this is in the response already seen in this thread. A judicious change to the title of this thread will help keep it on track and avoid throwing off the less informed. Thanks!

Re: How to make XPG throw further than XRE - A DEFT Clone With Better Collimation

Saab,

You must made the post while I was changing the title, does the new title make it clear enough?