Malkoff M60L / M60LF efficiency?

cfromc

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I've searched for about 2+ hours and haven't really found what I'm looking for. Does anyone have M60L or M60LF or M60WLF runtime charts for 2xCR123 and 3XCR123? There seems to be a lot for the M60 and M60LL and even the M30s but not much in the way of the L-series. I'm trying to determine the output and runtime for the L-series in 2-cell and 3-cell SureFires. Basically, I want to see what would be most beneficial since I have a spares carrier with 6 batteries. Will 4x2CR123 last longer than 3X3CR123? Will the 3-cell light produce more output than the 2-cell? I know it will on the LL but at the expense of runtime.

Any help is appreciated.
 

Kestrel

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This is a very good question, I've tried to read just about everything posted here on the Malkoffs since late 2007 and I can't recall seeing any posts that cover what you're looking for. The M60L's just don't get the love, do they?

Will 4x2CR123 last longer than 3X3CR123? Will the 3-cell light produce more output than the 2-cell? I know it will on the LL but at the expense of runtime.
Edit: And you already know the big secret, which is the M60LL on 3xCR123 vs 2xCR123. I would like to know if the M60L has the same behaviour.

As an aside, the M60 doesn't, as you may already know. It will draw ~0.8 amps from 2xCR123 (~5v) compared to ~0.6 amps on 3xCR123 (~7.5v). In this situation, the CR123's can deliver 5-10% more total watt-hours per cell for the lower drain rate, so you do get more runtime for the same wattage with two sets of 3xCR123's compared to three sets of 2xCR123. The question is whether the M60L does the same thing. As we already know, the M60LL is a completely different animal in this respect.
 
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BigHonu

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Wait, so the M60LL is brighter on 3x123 (with shorter runtime) vs 2x123 (but longer runtime)? Subjectively, by how much?
 

Kestrel

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Wait, so the M60LL is brighter on 3x123 (with shorter runtime) vs 2x123 (but longer runtime)? Subjectively, by how much?

LOL, that's the secret, it must be due to having a different driver. BigWaffles tested the M60LL in his huge 'Runtime Graphs' thread and got the following:
  • 2x SureFire CR123: ~18 hours (!!!) of regulated runtime at XX measured lux
  • 3x SureFire CR123: ~12-13 hours of regulated runtime with approximately 60% more measured lux IIRC - yielding a calculated output bordering on M60L performance.
M60LL: 7.5v vs 5.0v: substantially less runtime but substantially more output at the higher voltage. Very interesting behavior indeed - the M60 doesn't do this.

The big question is whether the M60L driver behaves like the M60 or like the M60LL. :thinking:
 
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cfromc

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I have one M60LL, a M60LF, and an M60WLF (and a M60WF weaponlight). The LL is in a 3-cell light and I don't mind the loss in runtime since it is better than the P60L I used to have in the light. Both Ls are in 2-cell bodies but I'm thinking about putting one in a three-cell light but I'd like to know that there is some benefit to doing that, if not better run-time efficiency, then at least better output. It is a glovebox light so good output with great run-time is better than great output with only "good" runtime is the ticket I suppose. Or, I may even switch the LL to the 2-cell light and the put the L in the 3-cell light. Its so hard to decide since the 2-cell specs are very different from the 3-cell specs, at least on the LL.
 

cfromc

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Yes, that thread comes up every time I search for the M60L but there are no solid run-time charts for the M60L in the thread. I think I've read the thread about four times just to see if I missed anything. There is also nothing comparing the runtimes and output on 2-cells v. 3-cells. I think for now I will just leave it in a 2-cell body and have three sets of spare batteries.
 

etc

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I tried most of Malkoff's modules but M60L is my favorite module and it's what goes into the EDC 1x18650 lite. It's a very nice balance of lumens and runtime.

I too browsed the forum, unable to find runtimes for M60L. The chart posted above is accurate and is consistent with my experience, you get a solid 4+ hours.




Will 4x2CR123 last longer than 3X3CR123?


Well, none of the M60* modules will work on 4x123, the voltage is too high and will cook it in a second. I got a specially modded one of a kind M60 that runs on 4x123 and plan to do the same thing with M6*L and M6*LL.

Having said that, I don't like 3-cell (3x123) lites. I like 2x123 and 4x123, because you can use 1x18650 and 2x18650, respectively.

The only virtue of a 3x123 lite is that you can use 2xAA cells in it. I think I tried M60L on 2xAA Lithiums but decided that M60LL likes that config better.
 

cfromc

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I don't want to run 4CR123s - I was thinking about the run time difference of a 3-cell light times 3 vs a 2-cell light times 4 since I have a spares carrier with 6 cells in it. I'm thinking the 2-cell light times 4 will end up with the most run-time, perhaps with a little loss in total output. If it were truly a long-term emergency then output would take a back-seat to runtime I would imagine.
 

etc

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I would think that M60L would be brighter on 3x123 with shorter runtime; and slightly less bright but longer runtime on 2x123.

Any actual experiences would be helpful.
 

CPFBiology

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I would think that M60L would be brighter on 3x123 with shorter runtime; and slightly less bright but longer runtime on 2x123.

Any actual experiences would be helpful.

Would be interested in this as well.
 

etc

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M60L is all my all-time favorite. Great balance between runtime and lumens.
Would be real interesting to try M61L as well but I suspect I won't like it as much as M60L.

compare M60L vs M61

M60L is brighter if you compare any one square cm. from M60L vs any other square cm. from M61. The total output of M61 is of course far greater but any given point is illuminated better with M60L than with M61. M61 is only better if you want to look at a far greater area, then it makes sense. It lights up the whole room vs a spot.
 
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CPFBiology

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M60L is all my all-time favorite. Great balance between runtime and lumens.
Would be real interesting to try M61L as well but I suspect I won't like it as much as M60L.

I was under the impression that the M61L would be the same as the M60L, only a little bit brighter.
 

etc

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It depends how you measure brightness. Because the spot of M61L is not as tightly focused, it cannot possibly be as bright *at any particular square inch* in M61L versus M60L, even though the total lumen output might be similar, or even greater as in the case of M61.

I superimposed M60L beam onto the beam of M61 and I could easily see the M60L hotspot, which is more intense. These are different lites with different applications. Good to have both.

I think 80% of the time, M61 is more useful, to me, but the other 20% of the time, M60L or M60 cannot be replaced.

OT, but to complement my array of lites, I want M61LL but I have no plans to replace my M60L with M61L.

In any case, back to the subject, M60L is not going away any time soon, for me that is. I have the original hand-etched module with a very nice warm tint and perfect beam profile.
 
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etc

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I get about 4 hours on M60L + Panasonic 18650 2900 mAh unprotected Li-Ion cell. Seems like it runs and runs and runs like the Energizer bunny. With occasional usage, I go multiple days without recharge.

Now I run M61 more often and it's a lot more thirsty, I swap 18650 daily just to make sure I have a fresh charge.

Should get a bit less with AW cell as it's 2600 mAh.
 

etc

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You can clearly see from that chart, that the lower levels like L or LL get you most bang per buck. You get more lumens at any one instant with M60 or M61 but the *total* lumens projected per set of cells or battery is far greater with M60L and M60LL.
 

angelofwar

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You can clearly see from that chart, that the lower levels like L or LL get you most bang per buck. You get more lumens at any one instant with M60 or M61 but the *total* lumens projected per set of cells or battery is far greater with M60L and M60LL.

Yeah, the L's are my favourite...and they're easy on the R/C's. Been using my M60L, and M60LF's on B65's for about a week now with out replacing/recharging the cells, and ZERO drop in output yet...And there's not alot the M60 can do that these can't. I now have an RC set-up that I'm very confident in! Thanks Gene and SF! :wave:

I ran my M60L for about an hour a month ago, when a watermain backed up, and it performed like a champ. No drop in out put, and no excessive heat build -up. These are the best all-round Malkoffs (IMHO).
 
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