Flashlights are not for self-defence!

gcbryan · Mar 15, 2010

There really should be a public service announcement or something on here to the effect that flashlights are not for self-defense

Of course, there would be some who would disagree I suppose but I think most who have thought it through would agree.

A light is a good thing to have in a dark area. Shining it on someone who is trying to sneak up on you would be a good use of the light I suppose as would just making yourself more visible to others.

Purchasing a light thinking it is a self defense tool is just deceiving yourself however. Attack bezels, strobes, high output that is supposed to "stun" someone is just not reality.

Thinking that perhaps it is such a tool is more likely to get you into trouble than realizing that it's not and not counting on it. An attack bezel is probably just going to get you cut.

If you are bigger than an attacker you're good anyway. If not you're just going to get that attack bezel taken out of your hand and used on you.

I keep reading newer members of this forum looking for self-defense lights for themselves and their wives. A gun, perhaps mace, and just staying away from high crime areas/situations are ways to deal with self-defense.

Carrying a flashlight is not except in the sense noted above (in my opinion).

kaichu dento · Mar 15, 2010

I disagree completely on the grounds that we make our own choices. It's also an impossibility for any of us to know who is asking and what their capabilities are.

Best that we answer OP questions in as confident manner as possible without making assumptions that they don't know what they are asking.

Big mistake in your statement suggesting that size will be the deciding factor, and although this is your thread, it's a thread directed at how we should respond to others, and what assumptions we should be making regarding them and their capabilities.

RedForest UK · Mar 15, 2010

I know that lights aren't by any means self-defence tools, shining one on someone isn't going to make them scream and run away. However they do have a few practical applications if you know how to use them. Firstly, any reasonably sized light is a chunk of metal in your hand, if you know how to fight, this will prove useful at some point, as either a kubaton, or if on a tough lanyard perhaps even similar to a nunchuk or a mace, a serious light swung around on nylon cord can hit with a lot of force if done properly.

Also, the strobe mode in itself wont deter an attacker as such, but any bright light will be distracting for a second if shone in the eyes, obviously this is only useful if you have some idea of what to do in that moment, which in most cases should probably be to run.

Another interesting application in street fighting if its dark is the fact you can hold the light out away from your body, people tend to assume the position of the light is similar to your head or chest and as such will attack that point if they have no clear view of your exact position, this can give you the chance to hit them from the side with whatever it is your good at, be it a hook to the head, or a kick to the kidneys, or you can simply step forward and round them and throw them to the ground. I have found this to work quite effectively in the past.

gcbryan · Mar 15, 2010

kaichu dento said:
...
Big mistake in your statement suggesting that size will be the deciding factor, and although this is your thread, it's a thread directed at how we should respond to others, and what assumptions we should be making regarding them and their capabilities.

OK, then a tough little guy will take your attack bezel and use it on you...how's that

gcbryan · Mar 15, 2010

RedForest UK said:
I know that lights aren't by any means self-defence tools, shining one on someone isn't going to make them scream and run away. However they do have a few practical applications if you know how to use them. Firstly, any reasonably sized light is a chunk of metal in your hand, if you know how to fight, this will prove useful at some point, as either a kubaton, or if on a tough lanyard perhaps even similar to a nunchuk or a mace, a serious light swung around on nylon cord can hit with a lot of force if done properly.

Also, the strobe mode in itself wont deter an attacker as such, but any bright light will be distracting for a second if shone in the eyes, obviously this is only useful if you have some idea of what to do in that moment, which in most cases should probably be to run.

Another interesting application in street fighting if its dark is the fact you can hold the light out away from your body, people tend to assume the position of the light is similar to your head or chest and as such will attack that point if they have no clear view of your exact position, this can give you the chance to hit them from the side with whatever it is your good at, be it a hook to the head, or a kick to the kidneys, or you can simply step forward and round them and throw them to the ground. I have found this to work quite effectively in the past.

OK, it's you're a trained martial artist you can make use of a flashlight or a stick or a rock or your hand...I'm pretty sure that most posters asking for a defense flashlight for themselves and their wives aren't so trained.

fleegs · Mar 15, 2010

I am very interested in your post.

My experience shows that you can disorient someone with a flashlight for about 15 seconds or more. It has to be under the right conditions (i.e., dark adapted eyes and not expecting it). My friends and I use to do this walking down a trail at night. They'd hit me in the eyes and I had to stop walking because I couldn't see.

Also, I would think a flashlight would work the same as a spotlight on a house. If you illuminate someone they may change what they were going to do.

I would consider these a defensive application.

What type of defense are you talking about?

Rob

march.brown · Mar 15, 2010

.
All "self-defence" flashlights should come with a free pair of running shoes !

The "torch in the eyes" only gives you a ten to fifteen seconds start (in the dark).
.

JulianP · Mar 15, 2010

There are many forms of self defence. Just lighting your way in a dark alley deters attackers, as light draws attention to something bad going on. A powerful flashlight will also light up offenders for those CCTV cameras, which otherwise only record dark shapes holding dark objects.

In ancient times, Romans said "Malus odiat lux" ie Evil hates the light.

Anyhow, how many CPF members go on walks at night without their flashlights?

Yeah, I thought so.

kaichu dento · Mar 15, 2010

gcbryan said:
OK, then a tough little guy will take your attack bezel and use it on you...how's that

Well with that response it's starting to look like you're assuming yourself the judge of who's capable of what. By the way, where did I get the attack bezel?

Sounds like you have first hand experience of having this done to you.

gcbryan said:
OK, it's you're a trained martial artist you can make use of a flashlight or a stick or a rock or your hand...I'm pretty sure that most posters asking for a defense flashlight for themselves and their wives aren't so trained.

There you go again assuming things you don't know. Apparently you'd like someone else to be in charge of everyone elses decisions because they don't know what's good for them.

News flash: Not a good idea in government, not a good idea in flashlights, or the rest of life for that matter.

Vesper · Mar 15, 2010

fleegs said:
What type of defense are you talking about?

Exactly! As a hand to hand weapon, not so good. Spotlighting the guy trying to climb in the neighbor's window... very good defense. There are many possible situations.

kts · Mar 15, 2010

Try this...

Yesterday night I woke up after sleeping maybe 4 hours, turned on my Fenix LD10 in complete darkness..BAM..my eyes :poof:

...and this was just 120 lumens shining on the wall.

And I work as a welder, so Im no stranger to bright lights

So I could imagine that a flashlight could buy you some time (seconds) to run/kick or whatever you would do in such a situation.

Jash · Mar 15, 2010

Flashlights are not for self-defence!

REALLY?

Tell you what, you bring whatever light you have, I'll bring both my 4D maglites, you attack me and let's see who's left standing.

Guaranteed I'll be eating with a knife and fork, not through a straw.

Disclaimer: I do not endorse organized violence on any level. This is purely a social experiment.

RedLED · Mar 15, 2010

GCBRYAN,

I totally disagree with you. You do not know what you are you are talking about.

OCD · Mar 15, 2010

I too, have seen the persuasion of a Maglite, 1st hand.

Long story short, some big dude thought I cut him off in traffic when I clearly did not. He got out of his truck and started yelling at me. When my dad got out of the truck with my 6D and told him (not so politely) to get back in his truck, the troublemaker became very polite and did as asked.

There is no clear right or wrong in this debate, IMHO. Every situation is different.

csa · Mar 15, 2010

I just wish people would stop believing the "strobe is useful for self defense" BS.

MrGman · Mar 15, 2010

There is no guarantee of success to self defense with any "tool" there is only the hope of success based on training, awareness, skills, motivation, and sheer will. Those people who have posted for flashlights for their wives are probably already well aware of its limitations as this has been discussed over and over, live in places where they can't have access to better "tools" due to laws. Having at least a light to attract attention to themselves and let would be muggers know that they are already seen may be better than absolutely nothing as a first step. Its already been beaten to death that its not an end all solution. You are not covering any new ground here.

I expect this thread will be shut down shortly as it serves no new and meaningful purpose but just raises already covered issues and starts arguments.

toby_pra · Mar 15, 2010

march.brown said:
.
All "self-defence" flashlights should come with a free pair of running shoes !

The "torch in the eyes" only gives you a ten to fifteen seconds start (in the dark).
.

+1 :thumbsup:

Fulgeo · Mar 15, 2010

I disagree. I go for many long walks at night and a modified 3D Mag is my torch of choice. I do not modify my flashlights with attack bezels. I do modify my Flashlights in such a way to drastically improve their lumen output. The ability to generate a dazzling burst of light in those areas where the burbs rub up against the wilderness has saved me numerous times. I could go into a large litany of personal examples but will not clutter this thread with that. You also have mention and I quote "If you are bigger than an attacker you're good anyway. If not you're just going to get that attack bezel taken out of your hand and used on you." I want to say size does not equate strength. I know what you are getting at but usually the slightly smaller than average person has learned to fight because they have had to. I am 6+ feet tall so I have no personal axe to grind. The theory goes that the larger than average guyz do not get pushed around as much. The smaller than average guyz have been pushed around a bit, so they have a better idea what to do when it happens.

wingnut86 · Mar 15, 2010

kts said:
Try this...

Yesterday night I woke up after sleeping maybe 4 hours, turned on my Fenix LD10 in complete darkness..BAM..my eyes ...and this was just 120 lumens shining on the wall.

Why would you shine it at the wall?? Common sense should have kicked in well before that.

flasherByNight · Mar 15, 2010

A pen can be used for self-defensive, would I choose it as my primary weapon if stuck in a gladiator arena, of course not.

Flashlights are not for self-defence!

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