Are these lights getting too complicated?

1 click, 2 clicks, 3 clicks, 2 clicks press hold, 5 flashes, multiple options menus......Dang!

Granted, they're not all that way.....yet. I had a Novatac (I know, people love this light) and just couldn't deal with it. Then there are the Ra's and Litefluxes....

I just want the thing to come on and go off. A couple 2 or 3 output levels is great, but beyond that I just don't get it. Accidentally click the thing too many times and all of a sudden my flashlight is asking me what I want for dinner

I don't know why I wrote this.

I don't think the lights are getting too complicated, but their description is getting a little off track. I refer to the "tactical" flashlights, often sold with impressive looking pics of SWAT teams holding them, that have multiple levels. :thinking:

Many of our members are in the kicking down doors to get bad guys business, and I'm pretty sure that none of them want their flashlight cycling between low, medium and high on every click while doing that door kicking!

I completely agree with that. I have a single mode Surefire C2 for duty. It pains me to see new cops getting these multi mode/output backup lights. Dangerous.

I'm waiting for them to start having micro usb ports so you can program them via the computer, but that will be a problem for me as I doubt they port the program software to LINUX...:naughty:

Brian

Niconical said:

Many of our members are in the kicking down doors to get bad guys business, and I'm pretty sure that none of them want their flashlight cycling between low, medium and high on every click while doing that door kicking!

Click to expand...

Yeah, really!!

Just goes to show ya, most of this "tactical" nonsense is just that, nonsense. But the mass market eats it up, so better get used to it...

A light doesn't have to rely on a single tail switch to change modes, but for the manufacturer, it's certainly easier to simply reprogram the driver than to physically add another input mechanism to the light.

For truly serious social interaction, though, it's worth the effort, and there are good, truly "tactical" (as opposed to "tacticool") light out there. I think the "control ring" approach seen on the Surefire U2, JETbeam RRT series, Fenix TK21, NiteCore SRT etc. is an excellent concept. Likewise, Eagletac and Olight use a separate bezel "switch" to change modes, and a few use a separate side switch, like the Olight M-30 Triton and others. And of course there's the Surefire approach: 100% on every damn time. Kinda hard to mess that one up.

To the OP, it's difficult to balance features with ease of use. Some lights certainly do better than others. I've never owned a Novatac for that reason, and the only LiteFlux I ever likes was the LF-1 with it's simple two-stage output.

Some seem to strike a good balance, usually by using the programming interface only to set two or more "modes", and making highly unlikely to get into the programming mode by accident. My two favorite that way are my Quark AA Tactical (set to two modes, ~10% and 100%) and my Akoray K-106 (set to three modes, ~10%/50%/100%). Once set, they're essentially fixed mode lights, but if I really, really need a strobe or moon mode, it's there, just harder to get at. Works for me!

+ a million.

Multi-modes are nice at times but when I'm at work when I push the button I want high, now. The problem with the multi-modes via the switch for me is that I sometimes "double-click" the light to get someone's attention.

The best user-interface I've come across so far is the Malkoff MD/Wildcat. Dead simple.

Ahhh...the good ol' U2...Click on...click-off...rotate the foward ring to adjust the brightness...or don't...just click it off...

At least with the UI of the U2/Kroma/Aviator/L1/L2 you don't have to remember how many clicks to get to 50% or full, or whatever...just rotate knob or press harder.

You scored a home run on those UI's Surefire!!! Way to get it right the first time!

In reference to the tactical thread, what makes a tactical light? The "dead man thumb activated" switch on the SF twisties. You drop it, the light goes out, or it doesn't "accidentally stay on". THAT is a tactical interface...along with it it being in an ergonomical position.

It's an interesting question - certainly the more different UI's you have in your collection the harder it is to keep them all straight...

I'm an old line fan of Henry's UI - I've owned an Arc4+, HDS B42XRGT, Novatac 85P and Novatac 120P (which I still own and use regularly - though it does have a K2 TFFC in it for a bit of extra oomph, and it is a screamer). Personally I think it does as good a job as you can with a multimode light - and the options around where and how it starts, as well as the abiliy to move more or less directly from any level to another one is unmatched to this day. Since I don't break down doors for a living it works great for me, and it does IIRC have a tactical mode to always start at 100% but the form factor doesn't seem ideal for field work like that.

I still have a fair number of dual mode lights - Surefire E1L, E2L, L1 and a KL1 head on an Aleph body with a McE2S. I see the value in the push some push more UI more than I used to - it is an intuitive way to interface with the light.

About the only issue I have with a dual mode light is that current emitters have such a wide "bandwidth" between their maximum outputs and the low low that I enjoy - that two levels means you either forgo the top end, forgo a low low (a complaint of the L1) or have a huge gap between high and low. Even Don has moved on to three level lights more or less for this reason. Admittedly with the top end of the Arc4 or B42 being around 40 lumens, 4 levels was arguably overkill, but the top end of my 120P modded is to my eye and compared to my Creemator certainly around 200+ if not pushing a bit more than that - and my Creemator with two primaries is pushing 300 out the front. In both I find 4 levels to be quite useful and I end up using them all (although oddly not maximum as much as the lower levels).

But that is based on my use of my lights as EDC carry utility lights, sometimes dog walking and camping lights where my uses are a lot more varied and the ability to extend runtime, preserve night vision, and still be able to see in that dark corner benefit from more flexibility.

Personally I think that HDS/Ra/Novatac and Milky's firmware have it about as right as you can get for multi level lights. The HDS UI remains my favorite, but with Milky's bells and whistles and flexibility (theater, memory, tactical, miser modes) it is hard not to find a solution that will meet your needs. And of course Milky will do a custom program for you to suit your individual desires to a "t" should you desire!

My Nitecore D10 is handy for showing off but people are easily confused when they try to operate it. I have a hard time getting it into SOS mode sometimes.

bthrel said:

I'm waiting for them to start having micro usb ports so you can program them via the computer, but that will be a problem for me as I doubt they port the program software to LINUX...:naughty:

Brian

Click to expand...

As long as they publish the protocol (or use an existing protocol like USB Mass Storage), us Linux users will be fine.

-flatline

Gatsby said:

It's an interesting question - certainly the more different UI's you have in your collection the harder it is to keep them all straight...

Click to expand...

EXACTLY!

Many a time I am using a light only to find it had modes I forgot about, or I forgot how to access them. At that point I start going through my lights and figure out what to put up on BST.

As a noob who isn't kicking down doors (unless it's my own and I've forgotten my keys), I'd have to agree about the complication factor. I prefer simple UI's. The JetBeam selector ring is great. Thrunite's sequential modes as one presses the switch is also great (though a memory feature would have been nice). Quark's is perhaps the best compromise (for me) between multiple modes and ease of use: tighten bezel, soft-press through modes; loosen bezel, soft-press through other modes. Anything more than that and I'm not interested. Three clicks here plus a quick tighten/loosen bezel there... no thanks.

My candidates for worst UIs: JETbeam Mk.II X / Dexlight X.1 (tie, since they have the same UI). "Normal mode" is a fairly standard 5-mode, although the order is weird (Mid > Low > High > Strobe > SOS); but the real killer is, if you turn it off while in Low — the mode I use the most — it comes back on in a cumbersome 16-mode "advanced UI", and you have to cycle through all 16 to get it outta that @#$%^&* state, all the while looking like you've got a discotheque in your hand. Very amusing for non-flashoholics.

Oh yeah, and both use PWM at a frequency only slightly higher than the strobe. :sick2:

Two very well-built, good-looking lights, and very good performers for their time, but DAMN they can be frustrating in actual use.

TECENG said:

Many a time I am using a light only to find it had modes I forgot about, or I forgot how to access them.

Click to expand...

Heh heh heh… Yeah, ya gotta get in the habit of keeping a file of the UI "maps" for some of 'em. Otherwise, they're sorta the flashlight equivalents of a VCR that flashes "12:00" all the time

Clearly there is a market for lights with multimode/configurable user interfaces, so the obvious answer to your question is no (otherwise the companies making them would be going out of business).

Personally I think it is a sign of good design that I can navigate a torches multiple modes in a nonlinear way using only a single on/off button. Of course that makes the user interface a little more complex, so if you're the sort of person who struggles with modern technology (like using a smart phone, or programming a VCR/DVD player etc.) then these torches are not for you.

Maybe we all just need to get one of these:


JK.....

I do like the options and flexibility a lot of the UIs give you, but for the most part I agree that most are OTT.

My most favorite interface right now - Titan T1A. Turn ON, turn more = brighter, turn other way OFF.

Now the Ra has a pretty tough interface (most complicated light I have), but it does have the redeeming quality that you can choose any of 23 different levels for each of 4 presets - that is flexibility I like. When I buy a light with 3-4 levels of someone's else choosing I usually like at least one level (Hi) and maybe one other but always wish I could change the remaining levels. HDS gives me that option - so the payback is worth the interface.

I have no problem programming the light, as long as the instructions are there, but it' just too easy to jump into a programming mode by accident, and then I'm all screwed up cause there's no menu on hand to get it working again.

This happened with the Novatac. I'm using it one day and all of a sudden all it will do is come on low. It took me an hour to figure out it had gone into programming mode, and about that long to get it back right again.

I just prefer simple twisty's or at most a 3 click linear output. I guess that's why I have so many Peaks. In fact, except for my EZAA, all of my lights are American made, and mostly twisty's.

I'm going to have to go against the grain and give a :twothumbs to Ra, HDS, Novatac, others with a programmable UI, and especially LiteFlux. Their versatility is what attracts me.

Wouldn't mind seeing a new LF2XT with a few more modes.

Geoff

Yes. I'll take a dumb one or two mode light any day. Forget strobe, forget SOS, forget disco mode, I just need a high and a low.

Flying Turtle said:

I'm going to have to go against the grain and give a :twothumbs to Ra, HDS, Novatac, others with a programmable UI, and especially LiteFlux. Their versatility is what attracts me.

Click to expand...

I think the strength of the Ra/HDS/NovaTac (and LiteFlux) UI is that the default behavior can be easily set so that it functions like a simple 1-level light. And they are set that way from the factory.

I almost always have a Clicky or LF2XT in my pocket, and the reason I choose those specifically is that I know I can hand either of them to my wife, daughter, or anyone else and not have to explain how to use it. They click the button, it comes on at a reasonable level. All the other features are there if *I* want them, but they don't get in the way of someone else using it.