To LEO's, how much light do you really need?

BeeMan458

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I'm curious as to a "realistic" answer to this most subjective of questions.

My arsenal is stocked with JetBeam products. Overall, I'm very, very happy. For EDC, the RRT-0 and the Jet-III M. For throw and flood, the JetBeam M1X and an on order, RRT-3. To all you LEO's out there, do you need more than the above while on patrol? How much light do you LEO's need, at the ready, so as to take the night away from the bad guys and keep ya'll safe?

Oh, and while I'm asking, which is your patrol preference: cool or warm tint as to the Jet-III M?

:confused:
 
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dano

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I'm curious as to a "realistic" answer to this most subjective of questions.

My arsenal is stocked with JetBeam products. Overall, I'm very, very happy. For EDC, the RRT-0 and the Jet-III M. For throw and flood, the JetBeam M1X and an on order, RRT-3. To all you LEO's out there, do you need more than the above while on patrol? How much light do you LEO's need, at the ready, so as to take the night away from the bad guys and keep ya'll safe?

Oh, and while I'm asking, which is your patrol preference: cool or warm tint as to the Jet-III M?

:confused:

Every LEO is different, with different needs.

I'm perfectly satisfied with my Streamlight SL20x and a (currently) G2Z running a P61 lamp. No LED's on duty for me, as I have had too many in-field failures with them.
 

Mr Bigglow

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Every LEO is different, with different needs.

snip . No LED's on duty for me, as I have had too many in-field failures with them.

Clearly different, because I went to LEDs for their dependability. But I invested in a certain famous US brand of flashlights, so....
 

BeeMan458

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At 850, out the front lumens, would either of you two say that the JetBeam RRT-3 will be putting out enough light to steal the night away from the bad guys when searching a field or back alley way? Is 850 OTF lumens really enough light when doing search and rescue next to a river on a stormy, rain filled night, or do you need more?

:confused:
 

Mr Bigglow

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Having started out in the days when alkaline batteries were radical innovations, meaning with flash units probably putting out 10 lumens, I've always been happy with anything over, say, 60 true lumens. Currently my newish E2DL emits around 200, they say. So 850 would be an awesome increase over anything I've ever NEEDED- but OTOH I can't speak to river rescue issues.
 

Swedpat

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Without success I have during months tried to sell my unused in the box Fenix TK10 to some police officer at the local police station. I spoked to several of them but they are satisfied with their Ledlenser 3AAA they received by the police authority...:(
 

BeeMan458

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I can't speak to river rescue issues.

I know that in vacillating, rain drenched, river environment based distances, where one might be conflicting with other lights, nature sucks up light fast at the shadow boundry.

So far what I've come up with is, 850 OTH lumens, under ideal conditions, should be good for shadow filling light at 400'. When the JetBeam RRT-3 comes in, and the next stormy night occurs, I guess it's down to the river to get my feet wet to find out what's what. I'm going guess that the effective distance is reduced to 200' - 300' due to the weather related conditions sucking up some of the light.

:thumbsup:

Swedpat wrote:

I spoked to several of them but they are satisfied with their Ledlenser 3AAA they received by the police authority...:(

I have to agree with your above frown.

;)

How far do you guys really need to be able to see at night so as to be safe from the bad guys who are hiding in the shadows?
 
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Alberta-Blue

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I use a three light system (Surefire recently started marketing it as the "Tactical Trinity" but the principal is the same) Basically I always have 3 lights available to me at any given time.

I ALWAYS have a Belt primary and a pocket back-up, and, depending on the duty and armament, I will either have a weaponlight or a fullsize on my rig or within arms reach.

The idea is that you have a light immidiately available for virtually any circumstance you encounter without fumbling around, that you should have enough light available (at full output) to use constantly for approximately 50% of your shift (in my case 4 hours... I have power available for 6), and that you have multiple redundancies if any one (or two) lights fail on you. This seriously limits that chances that you will ever be caught in the dark in the middle of a bad situation.

It works too... not long ago we had a power failure at work, and guess what; I was the ONLY officer in my work area that actually had a flashlight (that wasnt an original mini-m@g). So I passed my backup's out and we continued to work until power was restored.

Currently my lights are as follows:
Belt Primary (but needs to earn its trust): Newly purchased Surefire AZ2
Pocket Back-up: Surefire A2L
Weaponlight: Surefire X300
Full-size (ish): Surefire M6 (Rechargable modification)
 
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BeeMan458

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Thanks for the reply Alberta-Blue. Looks like I'm on the right track.

How much do you feel you need in lumens when looking for the bad guys in the rough or doing river search and rescue at a two or three hundred yard distance?

:confused:

I can only put the package together as it's you guys who do the actual work.

:thumbsup:
 
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Alberta-Blue

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Well my M6 Rechargable has a Low Output Lamp Assembly option for general use and I can swap it out for the Lumens Factory HO-M6R which will give me a solid 400-450 lumens out-the-front (OTF or Torch Lumens) and with one hell of a throw for about 35 to 45 minutes. I find its enough to use effectively for a spotter.

However that being said the M6 is relatively old tech that is being adapted and modded by people to extend its life and usefullness. Personally I am waiting for the Surefire M3LT to be released so I can size it up as my M6`s successor.

The M3LT is alleged to have around 400 OTF lumens focused in a TIR lens for one hell of a throw monster. Its also powered by 3 CR123A`s so it saves cost over the M6 and has the same output.
 

BeeMan458

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Thanks again.

:thumbsup:

Sounds like the threesome being putting together will work out just dandy.

JetBeam RRT-0 for the pocket.

JetBeam Jet-III M for the belt.

JetBeam RRT-3 for the spotter.

This, of course, coupled with Pila charger, two sets of 18650's and a fresh box of Surefire CR123A's.

:party:
 

Paul_in_Maryland

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I'm reminded of the exchange between the chocolate maker and her peasant customer in Chocolat:

Chocolat maker: "How many [of my aphrodisiac chocolates] do you need?"
customer: "How many do you have?"
 

Hogokansatsukan

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Not sure if it's how much or what type. I keep a Milky Room Sweeper on me for clearing houses, and it works great for that and any close encounter, but even though it kicks out 650 plus lumens, it's pure flood. Great for close up, but certainly lacking at distance. About a month ago I had to clear a large property within the city limits. It reminded me of Sanford and Son. The Room Sweaper worked great, as there was no distance over 40 feet that one could see anyway. I find floody lights better. Just last thursday I was using it and was able to see a person hiding in a room out of the corner of my eye. Had I had a tight beemed light, it might have taken me longer to spot him. Well, the part of him sticking out anyway.
If I were with the Sheriffs Department, I would go for more throw as they are working more in the desert rather than the city.
As far as lumens go, the more the better, but to each his own. It does come down to personal taste and experience.
 

M@elstrom

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I'm reminded of the exchange between the chocolate maker and her peasant customer in Chocolat:

Chocolat maker: "How many [of my aphrodisiac chocolates] do you need?"
customer: "How many do you have?"

+1 :thumbsup:

Whilst more is generally better (there are obvious exceptions), providing you already carry a decent low-to-midrange light for up close work why would you not want/need an exceptionally high output light? :thinking:
 

BeeMan458

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If I were with the Sheriffs Department, I would go for more throw as they are working more in the desert rather than the city.

Flood vs throw?

:thinking:

Our son will be working the southern Oregon area along Hwy 5. There's a lot of open space but he'll also be working the city beat.

Flood Vs throw?

:thinking:

The RRT-3 is expected to arrive any day now for testing purposes. The RRT-3 has 850 lumens OTF and some six different power settings, not counting strobe and standby. I expect it to be more of a thrower than flood. I'm trying to limit this odyssey to three lights as I could easily go from three to five in a heartbeat.

:D

With all the choices out there today, how much light is enough? Do you guys need a FireSword IV while out in the field and then when does the light itself become too unwieldy or simply a PITA to use? FWIW, personally, I find the JetBeam M1X to come up short after a hundred feet or so. Maybe I need a darker venue.

:confused:

"Hey rookie, why are your pants dragging like that?"

"Dad got me five lights for graduation and I didn't want to seem unappreciative."

:naughty:
 
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Bullet120

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For 12 years I have lived by my Stinger. I switched departments about 3 years ago and they issue UltraStingers. At my previous dept, we had two SL-20s assigned to the car. I rarely took those out. At this dept, I have become accustomed to using the UltraStinger on a full time basis. Its manners are good. Long enough to tuck under the arm, decent throw and good flood for a car stop.

With that being said, I just upgraded both of these lights with Terralux drop ins. The Stinger is like a new light and outshines the new DS C4 polystingers. The Ultra has a decent throw, but the spill makes it terrible for car stops and I don't believe the color suits well for throw/searching.

So, I've been in the search for high quality LED's. I received an LED Lenser X21 last week. While I certainly can justify the cost and make use of the available light, I will be returning it. I have decided that other regulated lights are what I'm after. However, having that much light available has strengthened my desire to buy real, high quality lights.

In the flood mode, I was able to light up entire back yards during noise disturbance/party calls. Certainly adds to your security when fewer people are hiding in the shadows. On the throw mode, I was certainly able to see further/bigger/better than anything before. I believe a light with this much output changes the game for an LEO at night. Searches are more effective and reduce the amount of distance you may have to travel to investigate an area. If you're in the beam, there is no more hiding.

I hate to give up the versatility of the X21, but from just a short period of use, its painfully obvious the output tanks quickly. I, having little tolerance for something I perceive to be second best, have decided to try an Olight SR90 and Fenix TK30 combo. I plan to use the diffusing film trick shown in other threads to make the TK30 a brilliant flood. I envision the TK30 becoming my regular patrol light, while keeping my Stinger on my belt for trusty back-up, where its been for 12 years. The SR90 will come out when I get out to search, which in my assignment at an inner-city division, is quite often. I'll also use it from the car to to roadside searches and spot house numbers.

It is amazing that as officers who live in the dark and are always looking for things that go bump in the night, that we don't put more emphasis in lighting. On a department with 400 officers, I cannot think of anybody carrying anything other than a light available for "free" from our clothing allowance, ie: C4 Poly/Stinger, UltraStinger/Strion/SL20 or SL35. When I whooped out my X21, people noticed. They would request I come to their call, just for the light.

I think I've rambled enough to boil it down to say I believe you need to be above 600 lumens to be at a point you can see everything around you comfortably on a typical close quarters call inside or outside (yard/street/car stop, etc.) Previously, with the above mentioned lights, you could use some spill to notice other things but needed to put the hot spot on whatever you wanted to actually see. With a true flood, this is no longer necessary.

When going to ground searches, the sky's the limit, which is why I'm getting the SR90.
 

BeeMan458

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When going to ground searches, the sky's the limit...

Thanks for your through and thoughtful reply. As lights come in and are tested for effectiveness, I'm fast finding the truth of your comment above. The only problem I'm having, I can't order up every possibility so as to take them out into the world and give them a test spin. That's why I ask the question, "...how much light do you really need?"

So far, my brightest test beam is about 450 OTF lumens, which is short of your minimum suggested six hundred lumen recommendation. The next light coming in will have some eight hundred and fifty OTF lumens. If that light doesn't cut it, I'll have to go to what I call the "super-thrower" category such as what you suggest, the Olight SR-90 or the FireSword IV; "Quality well spent."

I want, "at the least," a fully lit hundred yards out of the deal. So far, four hundred and fifty lumens seems to give about fifty yards in what I call "fully" lit. Fully lit to me means, being able to easily see details on a tall building's wall or roof details from a normal distance across a swimming pool courtyard of a condo/townhouse complex. I'd like to be able to see into the shadows of tall trees without conflict from ancillary light sources; one light swallowing up another's light beam. Fully lit to me means going onto a high school campus at night and being able to light (clear) the football field from any position on a stormy night. Being fully lit means, going into a trucking yard or commercial warehouse complex and light any porch or loading dock under the worst stormy nighttime lighting conditions during a blackout. For safety's sake, to me, these are reasonable expectations of one's heavy duty, duty light.

Damn military (Navy) ruined me. Because now I want to own the situation and nothing less.

:scowl:

The good news, I get to keep all the samples.

:grin2:
 
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mn_doggie

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I'm surprised no one responded with how many lumens are in sunlight? :shrug:
 

Jeffa

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Black Hawk Gladius on my duty belt, easy to use one handed. I like the Gladius because I can rotate it to the first selection which for me is the lowest light setting and go hands free placing it in my teeth and working with two hands undetected. The third setting (fully clockwise) is intermitant which I use for tactical/building searches. The middle setting is strobe which I have only used in training or signaling during field searches for missing persons.

Streamlight TLR-1 bright and long lasting, no problems to date

Olight M-30 Triton small enough to carry in a cargo pocket with spare rechargeable batteries.

Polarion PH40 when a lot of light is needed.

Surefire L4 Lumamax for off duty. Small with just the right amount of light.

Fenix TA-30 at home next to the bed (just because)

I worked for many years in the AZ desert and now work in snowy, cold northern Minnesota. A warmer tint is more important to me in the snow or when near or on the water.

None of my lights have a warm tint right now but I will try to remedy that in the near future.
 

BeeMan458

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Polarion PH40

:mecry:

Wow!

Jeffa, thanks for the response. What I'm trying to find out is, how much light do you LEO's find that you actually need in the field as opposed to different lights used. That Polarion looks like it would be some light to have in the field. Is it worth the price when compared to other HID's?

:confused:

So far, I'm good with the everyday pocket carry and the utility belt choice, but I'm in question at to a flood/thrower for field use when looking for the bad guys in fields, schools, commercial complexes or doing search and rescue on a dark stormy night.

"Somebody want to get some light over here!"

:thumbsup:
 
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