Why doesnt "Super Blast" mode exist in any torches?

So the question is "Why doesnt "Super Blast" mode exist in any (mainstream) torches?" (not sure about small manufacturers such as draco/peak etc)

Super Blast mode by my definition is an extremely high output mode (think 700lm+ in a 2xCR123 flashlight) that can run only for a very short period of time (3-15 seconds). If it can run for more than 15 seconds, they're not trying hard enough with the output , thus the Fenix HP10 with a "Turbo" that cuts out after 3 minutes doesn't count.

We definitely have the technology to do it (capacitors and leds that can handle the current), and I can certainly see the need for LEO and Military users, but even I would love one, just to "show off" and if i'm walking at night, to identify "noises" in the bushes (mostly foxes, possums and cats, but you never know, one day it might be something else).

Before you "pooh pooh" at a runtime of 3 seconds, count to 3 at second pace, can you identify something in that time? I certainly could. After the 3 seconds you still have your regular 230-300lm regular high output, so I dont particularly see a downside.

I assume the "cooldown" period of time between each "blast" would need to be at least a minute or so.

Perhaps this would be a good question for "4Sevens" seeing as their flashlights receive input from forum users

Re: Why doesnt "Super Blast" mode exist in any torches? (question for 4Sevens?)

There are limits regarding the rate at which cells can be safely discharged.

Re: Why doesnt "Super Blast" mode exist in any torches? (question for 4Sevens?)

So your Super-blast mode would be 3-15 seconds of usable light before thermal holocaust?...No thanks, I cant see the point of having such a mode. I need longer than that to see or find something, and I seriously doubt a short run time would impress anyone.

4-7 would never make such a product, knowing well ahead that everyone would be over-heating them and sending them back for repair.

Re: Why doesnt "Super Blast" mode exist in any torches? (question for 4Sevens?)

Although I get your point and like for multi-mode lights to be driven hard if medium mode is really what you use most of the time I don't see a point in the 3 second "Super Blast" mode.

I always find it funny when people mention a bright light impressing their friends or making someone envious...I just don't find that to be the case in real life.

We are the only one's who are even the least bit interested in lights. Very few are impressed and I'd say virtually no one is envious when someone blasts a beam of light that is much brighter than needed. I'm not even impressed or envious by that and I like lights.

If the modes are spaced out correctly a very bright "turbo" mode is OK meaning a bright light to be used for a few minutes but not sustainable for 1/2 hour. I just don't see the point of what you are suggesting.

Re: Why doesnt "Super Blast" mode exist in any torches? (question for 4Sevens?)

yes its called a SFIII by Arcmania - fits in the palm of your hand - runs off 2x 123's or 1 x 18650 and runs @ 800 lumen's+ for 20 min :naughty: but cost $400+ (and yes I have one)

Re: Why doesnt "Super Blast" mode exist in any torches? (question for 4Sevens?)

This is silly and probably very dangerous.

Re: Why doesnt "Super Blast" mode exist in any torches? (question for 4Sevens?)

super

Re: Why doesnt "Super Blast" mode exist in any torches? (question for 4Sevens?)

JCD said:

There are limits regarding the rate at which cells can be safely discharged.

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Thats why I mentioned capacitors in my post

kramer5150 said:

So your Super-blast mode would be 3-15 seconds of usable light before thermal holocaust?...No thanks, I cant see the point of having such a mode. I need longer than that to see or find something, and I seriously doubt a short run time would impress anyone.

4-7 would never make such a product, knowing well ahead that everyone would be over-heating them and sending them back for repair.

Click to expand...

Firstly, I dont think 3-15 seconds of 800-100 lm would heat up the light anymore than 30 mins of any "Fenix" on turbo(225-240lm). The time limit is of course to prevent any "thermal holocaust". THey would not be able to over heat them, as there would be a cool down time (anymore than I could currently heat a torch by turning it on high mode and leaving it in my pociket by accident)

Secondly, if you need more time than that, you could simply use the low, medium, high modes that would be on it, and it was be exactly the same as a regular torch?

Glenn7 said:

yes its called a SFIII by Arcmania - fits in the palm of your hand - runs off 2x 123's or 1 x 18650 and runs @ 800 lumen's+ for 20 min :naughty: but cost $400+ (and yes I have one)

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Thankyou .

Have you had a thermal holocaust? (now I know 800lm is possible for 20 mins, perhaps this burst should be more like... 1200lm? )

And I assume it drives straight off the batteries? no capacitor?


Anyway, i think everyone has misunderstood the idea, its not a torch that only lasts 3 seconds, its a regular torch, that has a mode on it that is very bright for 3 seconds (min, probably really need at least 5 seconds). It would still be like a normal torch in every other way.

Re: Why doesnt "Super Blast" mode exist in any torches? (question for 4Sevens?)

OK, I"ll bite. How should "super blast" be implemented in the user interface?

Re: Why doesnt "Super Blast" mode exist in any torches? (question for 4Sevens?)

carrot said:

OK, I"ll bite. How should "super blast" be implemented in the user interface?

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Well, I would guess your going to want immediate access to it when you need it, so probably a separate button, similar to what Olight has on some models for strobe.

Theres no point having it buried away in the UI somewhere, its like a "oh what was that noise" -> "super blast in that direction immediately" type thing.

Re: Why doesnt "Super Blast" mode exist in any torches? (question for 4Sevens?)

so you want a manufacturer to overdrive an emitter for 4-5 seconds which could have a bad effect on it yet you also want a warranty on it in case it fries the LED doing this too..... right? one reason it isn't done is it would add a lot to the cost of the light, first you have to have a circuit that can withstand the higher output, heatsinking that can protect the LED for a short while, and batteries that can safely supply the current without overheating and blowing up (lithium ions... eek) tack on an extra 75% to the price so a few people can buy such a light while the rest of the people buy the non super blast version.

Re: Why doesnt "Super Blast" mode exist in any torches? (question for 4Sevens?)

Firstly, I dont think 3-15 seconds of 800-100 lm would heat up the light anymore than 30 mins of any "Fenix" on turbo(225-240lm). The time limit is of course to prevent any "thermal holocaust". THey would not be able to over heat them, as there would be a cool down time (anymore than I could currently heat a torch by turning it on high mode and leaving it in my pociket by accident)

You are assuming that people are willing to turn the light on and count up the seconds, and exercise the discipline to turn it down in time.

You can easily overheat an emitter in as little as 10-15 seconds. I have done this to a P7, direct driving it off an 18650 cell. It was not on for more than 10 seconds. I was using a heatsink that was too small, and it turned blue.

Secondly, if you need more time than that, you could simply use the low, medium, high modes that would be on it, and it was be exactly the same as a regular torch?

If something is in plain enough view to spot it in ~3-15 seconds... I am not going to need ~800 Lumens to see it. Its going to be out in the open enough to spot with 200 Lumens of well directed light. So your blast mode is of no real practical use... IMHO. The times I really do need that much light, are times when I am really digging for something buried in the corner of my garage, or food preparation at a dark camp-site (for example).

Its a very flawed, failure-prone design that you are suggesting. I personally would not have any use for a mode like this. Furthermore, if I wanted a brighter light... I would just buy one designed for that much light and heat generation. There are more lights available now than before, with the SST-50 and multi-MCE designs, that are solid thermal designs.

The idea of over-driving an LED in an under-heatsink'd small host body is nothing new in the CPF-DIY circles, where its not uncommon to find DIY mods designed specifically for short bursts ONLY. But to warranty a product on the retail market... is a risky business decision, IMHO.

Re: Why doesnt "Super Blast" mode exist in any torches? (question for 4Sevens?)

yes i did understand what you meant about a 3-15 sec turbo/boost/kill mode - but as some one said could you/we exercise discipline and not cook the light.....dunno but it could have a timer built in I suppose.
And no the the SFIII does not over heat over the 20 min when constant on - thats what $400 buys you......the technology(it does have a hand wound coil in it)

Re: Why doesnt "Super Blast" mode exist in any torches? (question for 4Sevens?)

You guys aren't thinking outside the box enough.

Switch: It would be a pull switch that you had to put two fingernails (I would assume thumb and index finger) under to activate by 'pulling' it. No accidental turn on, two hand operation. Pushing the switch back in activates charging for the....

Powersource: Built into the light, you have a small, isolated, rechargable battery with a VERY high discharge rate and a slower charge rate that charges off the batteries you insert for normal use.

This way you cannot over-discharge anything or turn anything on accidently or even too often as the smaller built in power source needs time to recharge allowing the whole unit and user, to be safe.

Or you could just EDC an SR90.

And obviously some you aren't REALLY flashaholics.

*EDIT* After having gone a played with my quark 2AA tactical, it occured to me, 200lumens out of a AA powered light, WHAT THE!!.

A few years ago, 200 lumens was BRIGHT for any led powered light. I remember reading some threads from the past where people were getting excited about 100 lumens.

Give it another year or two, mainstream manufacturers will be making 800 lumen pocket lights simply because the technology will evolve to a point where it is safe to do so. Remember when 0-100km (60 miles) in 10 seconds was considered fast. Now most family cars can do it in less than 8. Same thing here.

It's a fair bet it will be less than a decade before we see 2000 lumen pocket rockets.

Re: Why doesnt "Super Blast" mode exist in any torches? (question for 4Sevens?)

I think I just recently purchased one that falls into that category.

Mac's SST-50 EDC

The existence of IMR cells sort of makes cell discharge rates a non-issue for this type of application.

Re: Why doesnt "Super Blast" mode exist in any torches? (question for 4Sevens?)

I think something like this would be useful on a weapon light, though 15 seconds would be a minimum.

It would give you sufficient light to navigate, then more light when you need to see a target well. Activation of the high level would be from an easily accessable button or a pressure switch.

Yes you could use two lights, but with this function you wouldn't need to.

I'm not neccessarily agreeing with the over stressing of the LED, but the low with fast access high is a winner. Turning heads or lightly pressing tail switches till you get the level you want is just too slow.

Re: Why doesnt "Super Blast" mode exist in any torches? (question for 4Sevens?)

kramer5150 said:

You are assuming that people are willing to turn the light on and count up the seconds, and exercise the discipline to turn it down in time.

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No i'm not, just like the HP10 in my first post, it would have a timer in it (or limited capacitor size) and the light would go back to high after the timer/capacitor is used.

The light would not be able to be put back on that bright mode immediately as it would take some time for the batteries to re-charge the capacitor. A resistor could be used to make the capacitor recharge more slowly if required.

kramer5150 said:

If something is in plain enough view to spot it in ~3-15 seconds... I am not going to need ~800 Lumens to see it. Its going to be out in the open enough to spot with 200 Lumens of well directed light. So your blast mode is of no real practical use

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lol what? so your saying 200lm is just as good as 800lm at spotting something?

Imagine the scenario, you hear a noise in the distance, now this distance is further away than you can illuminate EFFECTIVELY with your 200lm (maybe you can make out the outline or whatever, you can make out a person has something in their hand, but not what it is), but now you can push a button, and you have 800lm? cant you see the benefit of that? I can anyway. The 5 seconds or so would be long enough for me to make out if that item is a torch or a gun or whatever. Also (for LEO) it would blind the person more effectively if you suspect they are a threat. If such a thing ever exists you need not buy one, but I know I would.

Lynx_Arc said:

so you want a manufacturer to overdrive an emitter for 4-5 seconds which could have a bad effect on it yet you also want a warranty on it in case it fries the LED doing this too..... right? one reason it isn't done is it would add a lot to the cost of the light, first you have to have a circuit that can withstand the higher output, heatsinking that can protect the LED for a short while, and batteries that can safely supply the current without overheating and blowing up (lithium ions... eek) tack on an extra 75% to the price so a few people can buy such a light while the rest of the people buy the non super blast version.

Click to expand...

They wont need to "overdrive" the emitter, they can just use an emitter up to the task (SST90)

Yes it will add a lot of cost to the light. You can pick up a regular decent 2xCR123 for $50 or so, in my question I gave it up to $200, so thats a 400% increase in price I have factored in.

No additional heat sinking would be required due to the short runtime of the burst.

The circuitry to handle the currents already exists, otherwise the Olight SR90 would not exist.

Re: Why doesnt "Super Blast" mode exist in any torches? (question for 4Sevens?)

I agree that this could lead more people to damage (and thus return) their flashlights, and that it could potentially damage certain cells.

Interestingly, however, the Ra clicky lights work exactly as you've suggested: they turn on to a "burst" mode that shines for 10 seconds before settling down to a more sustainable "high" level for the next hour. And I agree: often, all I need is a few seconds of max level output to identify what made a sound...

- FITP

Re: Why doesnt "Super Blast" mode exist in any torches? (question for 4Sevens?)

lol what? so your saying 200lm is just as good as 800lm at spotting something?

Imagine the scenario, you hear a noise in the distance, now this distance is further away than you can illuminate EFFECTIVELY with your 200lm (maybe you can make out the outline or whatever, you can make out a person has something in their hand, but not what it is), but now you can push a button, and you have 800lm? cant you see the benefit of that? I can anyway. The 5 seconds or so would be long enough for me to make out if that item is a torch or a gun or whatever. Also (for LEO) it would blind the person more effectively if you suspect they are a threat. If such a thing ever exists you need not buy one, but I know I would.

Yes most definitely, there are times 200L is sufficient for me personally to locate items. I can find objects within 50-60 feet, around the house and outdoors with a malkoff M60 just as easily as with a 3500 Lumen HID.

But certainly there are scenarios where brighter is better. All I am saying is that I would want a longer run-time at those brightness levels... and theres no reason why todays higher end emitters and lights can't achieve a longer (and safer) run time, if the light is designed with good heatsinking.

Re: Why doesnt "Super Blast" mode exist in any torches? (question for 4Sevens?)

Jash said:

Or you could just EDC an SR90.

Click to expand...

I did that for a night. :naughty: