"Who" is CPF

\"Who\" is CPF

With some of the posts and brawls lately as well as the need to point fingers and place blame, I for one am not proud of the CPF collective of which I am a member.

Candidly, I have seen and read some of the most intelligent posts regarding illumination tools, their use and design as well as great thought provoking posts on other subjects and topics.

Unfortunately I have also read some of the most stupid and ignorant posts on same subjects and topics; both forgivable as they result from lack of knowledge or in some cases perhaps inability to grasp the matter at hand.

But in aggregate, "who" is CPF and how would we be perceived by the outside world as well as how do we perceive ourselves? Do we have realistic expectations, proper understanding and insight towards ourselves, dealers and manufacturers of flashlights and related goods? Are we a *reasonable* group or a gang of fanatics who expect too much from others? Shall we provide perfection ourselves before we expect it from others?

Some notable quotable fellow from the past is said to have made a comment about he who throws the first stone. Seems to me we have a few rocks flying around and I think it plain sucks!

Actually since I'm not sure how I should I live my life, I find it much easier to suggest how you should live yours. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I was shocked a few years back when I asked my step son and friends if they knew what the Golden Rule is. Aside from some weak guesses at some law of physics or something, they had never heard of it! Dang, am I that old? Was this a rule that just the people in my small community where I grew up knew about?

Have we earned the right and is it imperative that we be so quick to judge?

Without tolerance, things just don't fit together right. You run into interference, friction, incompatibility and failure. After failure, trouble shooting, repair and sometimes finger pointing result. Repair is often possible and sometimes quicker if the finger pointing is left out.

Some of us have said things and behaved in manners here that we may come to regret. Without tolerance, the potential for damage is greater.

Sorry, I can't quite verbalize the concern and caution I am feeling so I'll let this ramble stop.

I can't help but think that some will think I have been spurred on to write this as a result of particular posts or persons within but this verbal diarrhea is more a result of many posts of recent vintage where I feel a need to cheer, jeer or correct or criticize has been exercised in a detrimental manner for the good of CPF and the collective. It seems to me that any comment or action which is at the expense of another forces a need for sides to be chosen and allows for conflict to enter. At times this can't be avoided nor should it be but I presume with a collective maturity here, battles can be chosen wisely and with less frequency??

Since I am typically a loner and CPF is one of my few ventures into group dynamics, I admit to lack of qualification in making most of these comments. And of course even though the horse is not mine, please feel free................. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

- Don

Re: \'\'Who\'\' is CPF

I'm kind of a loner too. I spend most of my time here testing flashlights and checking CPF for new messages. And CPF is also my primary form of group interaction, except when I'm at a parade or something (the Seafair Torchlight Parade is in just over an hour - I'll be carrying my cyan 5W LS mod and my 50mW green laser, so if you see one or both it's probably me...the next time I plan to interact with a really big crowd will be the day after Thanksgiving for the Bon Marche Christmas Parade and the Westlake Tree Lighting Ceremony...and I'll laser that ceremony again if the lights don't come on on cue).

I consider CPF to be my "home away from home". I use it more than even my own website - The LED Museum - and I'd hate to see anything bad happen to it or the people who use it.

Oh oh there goes my email noise... gotta run!

Re: \"Who\" is CPF

Don;
I guess I'm philosophically quite a lot like you are. (exception: length of posts) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

To me, the Golden Rule IS a big deal-in personal matters as well as in business dealings. I also think that Some of the negative posts that you are talking about were written in the heat of anger-by younger (and less experienced) in appreciating the BIG value of using diplomacy-especially as a first resort. The big deal is that when there is diagreement, diplomacy wins -hands down in effectiveness 9 out 10 times, so countin' to 10 b/4 posting ain't such a bad idea. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
We're all human and imperfect, so we just need to remember the great value of that Golden Rule.

Who are we?
People who love light-from almost any source (smaller, the better), and techy machines like all kinds of electronics, optical devices, watches, guns, etc.
-Anything SMALL and POWERFUL..absolutely no surprise there! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

There's MY 5 cents worth for today...........

Re:

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif Very eloquent, Don. I haven't been here a year yet, and I have noticed the increase in flames etc. When us "geezers" (no offense!) grew-up, rudeness and lack of civility could get your nose broken and neither the police or lawyers would become involved. People who were known to have "crossed" people were simply avoided- translate don't do buisness with them. I'm probably a loner too, and still being single proves it! Lastly, only typing with 3 fingers tends to limit the length of my posts. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
(Edit: As to your horse, I am not into bestiality or any other funny stuff /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif )

Larry

Re: \"Who\" is CPF

I completely agree with Don.

CPF is a great place to talk about flashlights. The best actually, IMO. (What other places are there??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif) There have been a few threads that discussed things a little off topic, and were kinda of fired up. The first one or two didn't bother me. There were more though.

I hope all of us at our beloved CPF can be happy and get along. Have a good day! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Re: Who is CPF?

I thought it was Sasha's horse! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif

There has been an increase of "noise" in the forums of late, but for the most part CPF is still one of the more urbane places on the web.

It seems that most of us are more interested in "light" fanaticism, at least while here, than we are in poking at others with a sharpened stick.

For myself, I generally try to keep my contacts with others civil both on-line and off. If things deteriorate to the extent that is no longer possible, I still try to keep it out of public view. If necessary I will go to private contact on-line, and a private corner IRL.

Here on CPF, I've only had to take unpleasantries into private messages once, and most everyone else is blissfully unaware that was going on, as they should be.

Oh! There is one area where I will stand up on my hind legs and make rude noises in public, and that is in dealing with politicians. That is the only mode they appear to understand - being called out in public. That is the only way I've ever found them to pay close attention and to do their jobs.

Want to check on that? Heheheheh. I'll be happy to give you the mayor's, the city council's, the public works director's, and the city attorney's e-mail addresses and you can ask them. They all know me by name and on-sight ...

Golden rule? I think I first learned that in the late '40's ...

Re: Who is CPF?

I must be missing all the action. All the threads I've read in the LED, Modified, and Electronics forums have all been packed full of good info. The threads I've browsed thru here in the Cafe have sometimes been controversial, but given the subject matter it's to be expected; everyone has their own opinions. I've never seen anything out of place. Really, in a "cafe" is there such a thing as "off-topic" ?? In an organic, unfocused conversation between intelligent, thinking people, what would you really expect?

Of course, if someone were to wander into the Electronics forum and respond to any thread with "Bush and Cheney are driving this country into the ground" that would be way out of line, but I don't believe anything like that has happened.
What's the fuss?

Re: Who is CPF?

The acrimony we are discussing wasn't confined to the cafe´ threads..-it was in both the B/S/T, and in the very recent "cheers'n'jeers" section -particularly about the private sale(s) of the SF L4s by one member that went sour.

Re: Who is CPF?

You think this is bad? When I joined my Subaru Car Club two years ago, there were under 4,000 members nationwide. Now there are over 32,000. Just be glad flashlights aren't as "cool" as AWD turbocharged sportscars.

Growing pains. It's all growing pains and there ain't a damn thing to be done. The experienced guys just have to keep guiding the new guys. The mods just have to keep the reins nice and tight but be fair and honest. Keep the best elements of the culture alive through example.

But in time, the place will change. Any place that is dynamic and growing does. Heck, when the Dutch landed on Manhattan, there was just a few hundred Indians in the area. Look at it now.

Wilkey

Re: Who is CPF?

Probably need to evaluate the value of the Cheers and Jeers section. It's nice to be able to send a cheer someone's way and to warn about a deal gone south though.

Perhaps we could re-work a little code to provide a "technical" most recent posts and a "social" most recent posts. So that if you were not interested in being dragged into the discussion you could just be blissfully unaware it was happening. I actually like that idea...

The other possibility would be to force everybody to use a real name. Take away people's anonymity and they tend to think a little more before posting! When I joined up I decided to be who I am and just take responsibility for my actions. I actually AM James S.

Overall though I'm not terribly worried, we will either get this sort of thing sorted out or we'll find a way to keep it from distracting from the overall usability of the board. I'm a member of several techical boards and in most cases they are really fanatical about staying on topic, no arguments. Garbage is removed without appeal. I hope we won't be reduced to that as the nicer of the off topic posts are some of my favorite reading around here.

Re: Who is CPF?

To me, I'm still not yet qualified to truly answer that question. CPF means quite a bit to me personally but it is not reasonable for me to speak for us as a group at this time in a McGizmo thread.

Personally, I find it clarifying when a respected or a respected senior member steps in to corral the commotion. I look forward to it.

When a senior member expresses disenchantment with the group I'm a little saddened knowing I could have done better to help the community.

As far as your horse goes, Don, it is a Clydesdale, whether you own it or not; it is the horse you ride. It craps bigger than me but I think that I do my best to shovel it up and fertilize a tiny garden of knowledge that upon fruition, is minimally gifted to others.

Who is CPF? Maybe it is combination of personalities. What is the essence of CPF? Maybe it those members who, like yourself, know what's up and are willing to share it.

Not sure about this? Let's watch this thread. I predict there will be some wise things stated and some humorous things said but no one will crap on this thread except the horse you rode in on.

Re: Who is CPF?

I am only new here, but I think all the people who have written this thread are among those I listen extra carefully to, and open threads because of, and expect both much knowlegde and good style from. So I guess you are a prominent part of the CPF personality.
I haven't visited those non-technical sections you mention (what's cheers'nJeers?), so I haven't seen more than I think two or so slightly irritated posts that I can remember. The quality and density of the info (which I am now thinning out) is impressive, as well as the good humour. I guess I'll take a spin and see what you're talking about now. Bye

Re: Who is CPF?

All good and valid points that are well written by some very experienced members (pun intended) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Yes we bicker, yes we disagree but for the most part it's a philosophical argument here in the Cafe. When we get to name-calling and pointed accusations we need to do as Tomas stated and take it behind the scenes. I have used this method a few times and the person I want to have a "serious" conversation with tends to be more receptive because I'm not publicly humiliating them. I also use PM for advice when the forum doesn't need to know my business or wouldn't care, right Tomas? I solicited his help earlier today on a item I need to purchase because I knew he had the information but I didn't feel like sharing it with the world.

Maybe we all need to reread our post before posting and ask ourselves how we would feel if it was written about us and posted in public. If the answer is, "I wouldn't like it one bit" then...send it via PM, e-mail or delete it. The old adage, "Praise is public and punish in private" certainly holds true here. I don't want to imply I'm not guilty so maybe I need to "practice what I preach" more consistently and we can all have more fun. I will still debate and point out my perceived errors in others thinking but will try to do it with respect.

We can't get everyone to agree on the current day of the month because some people live in other parts of the world from where we are. We can be right and wrong at the same time depending on perspective. Our differences make us stronger and wiser. I love it. I come here for all matters of advice and knowledge. I have received help on everything from sweating in a pipe joint, fixing my computer, to buying a camera. Oh yea, I've heard there's some info. on flashlights here as well. What a wonderful place to be able to come and get the answers to life's toughest questions. We are fortunate to have CPF. Let's all try a little harder to self-moderate but for heaven's sake let's don't try to agree on anything except it's better to be a conservative. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
No group hugs /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Re: Who is CPF?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gifDieselDave,

The true meaning of conservatism.

Larry

Re: Who is CPF?

Now this is the "group tone" that I'm used to on the CPF!

Name calling, ranting, raving, pushing it to the limits...are uncalled for in this public forum. I was hoping that the "sour tone" in some of the recent posts would be a temporary spike.

There will always be an "emotional tone" to the posts of those who haven't taken the time to "think it out and get their ducks in a row". Communication shuts down when those "sour tones" are posted and progress stops!

Then there are the "childish ones" who just want to argue and push the rules to the limits for some sad or sick personal reason. They usually succeed in getting themselves temporarily banned and either come back to play nice or find another sandbox to mess up!

Overall, there's a well behaved group here and I salute those members. Hey, I'm human...I'm sure I'm going to post some emotional tone now and then, but I really never intend to hurt anyone's feelings or "start any fires"!! If that happens, I usually backup, regroup and apologize...I may still feel disgruntled or...however, I would hope that I would maintain control and my manners in public.

This is not a day care center...It's hard to put into words what the CPF actually is. It is so much more than just a place to further photonic technology by such a group of diverse individuals.

You know the ole' "You abuse it, you lose it"...let's not let that happen!

Re: Who is CPF?

wow Don!
this is almost EXACTLY the thread I wanted to start today, so thanx for the effort /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif !

IMO the increase in rudeness occurs almost exclusively in the forums where money is concerned, meaning dealer's corner, B/S/T and Cheers'n'Jeers.
I see fights between sponsors or sponsors and manufacturers and now even between individual members. Maybe this is a sign of the increasing member count AND the addition of a "Capitalism Center" which meant a big step away from an indipendent forum. in Germany we say "when money is concerned, friendship ends", sad but true. I think we will have a hard time regulating this problem. when it comes down to profit, the possibilities of a compromise are often diminished ... it's business, not a friendly light-related discussion any more.

The other big problem I see is politics. THis is the second big source for heavy gunfire in the Café, and IMHO we should ban political threads altogether on CPF. They almost never serve any purpose and provoke unnecessary fighting.
When I hear the name "Sasha" for example, I'd like to have the picture of our severe Web-Mistress in mind who shines her new lights in the closet and not a picture of a neo-liberal woman attacking my conservative views ... (this is of course a very hypothetical example, no attack intended, just a smile /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif)

bernhard

Re: Who is CPF?

Don--Maybe DavidW could open a forum expressly for those of us over the hill. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
We could call OLD 'N CREAKY CANDLEPOWER and you would have to answer a number of questions from history in order to gain entry.

Example: What did Douglass MacArthur usually have in his mouth?

Also, thanks for opening my eyes. I have always thought that CPF was civil and interesting (with a couple of minor exceptions in the Cafe). But I've NEVER visited the Cheers and Jeers forum. From this thread it sounds like it should be renamed the Bar-Brawl forum.

Now, please excuse me while I check out Cheers and Jeers....

Re: Who is CPF?

Don,
You are like the Thomas Jefferson of CPF. I look forward to and enjoy you posts.

You are most wise.

I have to admit that living by the Golden Rule will work for the populous in general,
HOWEVER, and unfortunately, I long ago discovered that there are some people on this earth who are so miserable with their life, that the only happiness they can find is by making people are more miserable than they are. They crave attention and will take whatever kind they can get. These people are like weeds and they detract from our beautiful garden of otherwise happy folk.

They enjoy the thought of confrontation and debate more than the subject matter here at CPF.

I have also figured out that if they are ignored, not given food, water (or light) they will either whither and die or move on to an easier garden. Sometimes a little Weed-Be-Gone will be called for or even surgical extraction.
Personally, Im pretty happy with my life.
These poor S.O.B.'s actually make me feel all the better about myself. I dont hate them (I still dont like them tho) and I wish they would just GTFO.
I like CPF.
The people here are great.
Mostly.
Every great body still has an asshole. If it didnt, we would really be full of it.

Don, you write and build and I will read and buy.

Me, well Im not going to post the obvious news (S.H.'s boys are toast) to give the weeds a foothold, Im just going to stick to flashlights.

To summerize:
The Golden Rule (loosly translated)>>Treat others as you wish others to treat you. This is a very good way to go thru life. You will be alot happier.
The Anti-Golden Rule (I made this up)>>> Treat others like dirt and they will always be under your feet. Except during landslides, earthquakes, nuclear weapons testing, and Graboid attacks.

I think Im going to go sit in the closet with my L4 now.

Re: Who is CPF?

The Golden Rule, is known as the Law of Karma. DavidW is CPF, as he is the owner. As a community, we are CPF. Civility and Decorum are predominant, but, I also have seen more of the confrontational postings in certain areas.

Remember that CPF is viewable by the general public.

Well said, Don!

I am also a loner, and in CPF, I found a community. Another community where the members are like those here, is renderotica. I only mention this because their behaviour is very good. It is a 3D CGI Artists community. (speaking of cash hungry hobbies!)

Re: Who is CPF?

MicroE,

..his tongue!? ...am I in?

my whole boyscout troop was sent to view his body, somewhere up around Grant's Tomb in Manhattan ... I remember the nose sticking up out of the coffin, but no pipe..