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Thread: SST 50 WOES!

  1. #1

    Default SST 50 WOES!

    I got a Olight M21 and just got my Tiablo A50 and I'm really not impressed with either torch.
    I was expecting a pretty decent illumination, figuring all the hype with the new SST 50 LED but they both (M21, A50) are a waste of money if it suppose to be the latest of LED's?! Even used both fresh CR123's and 18650's. Up close at 20-30 feet sure it's somewhat bright but they both don't have that bright noticeable spot beyond 50+ yards. The A-50 beam will hit out to about 150+ yards but it's not the signature Tiablo spot. I'm a lot more impressed with my Eagle Tac P20A2 XR-E R5 (230L), being it's such a small LED using AA batteries.
    From beamshots that I've seen with the Tiablo ACE G, the A 50 is nothing near that, not even close! Is this how bright the SST 50 actually is compared to other brighter beamshots of MC-E's, SSC's, etc., or am I expecting more than what they're really supposed to put out?

    Will try to upload beamshots later.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: SST 50 WOES!

    I guess it just depends on what exactly you were expecting.

    An XR-E has greater surface brightness than the other emitters so all things being equal they always throw further.

    The SST-50, MC-E and P7 depending on how they are driven can put out about the same lumens. They are relatively floody unless in a larger reflector.

    Why did you buy the SST-50? Meaning, what were your expectations and the reason for this purchase?

  3. #3

    Default Re: SST 50 WOES!

    My buddy has the M20 Ti the same internals as the M21 and I compared my P20C2 XP-G up against it and my light was actually brighter in both spill and throw. The M21 is still a nice light but for me not worth ordering one giving their is plenty of SST-50 lights that are driven harder, of course your going to lose runtime with those types.

    Be sure you extensively research a light before you order it this can save you from ordering something that doesn't live up to your expectations. Look over every review, output graph lumens/lux and run time graphs you can.
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  4. #4
    Flashaholic* bigchelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: SST 50 WOES!

    If I am not mistaken these SST-50 lights you are talking about are driven at 2.5A~2.8A in which case they make 500ish OTF lumens (good cells and adequate heatsink).

    The MC-E or P7 lights also driven at 2.8A tend to make 550~700 OTF.



    The SST-50's I have tested were driven at 4.55A~5.5A and they were 986 and 1000.8 OTF respectively. You should get a nice beam with underdriven SST-50's, but they need to be pushed hard to get them to shine as intended.

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  5. #5
    Flashaholic* stallion2's Avatar
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    Default Re: SST 50 WOES!

    stick it out for a little longer. i had similar feelings towards the XP-Gs w/ my first two emitters but now i'm an XP-G junkie. i'm not sure about the A50 but the M21 is designed as more of a flood lamp, not a thrower...thats likely why you're seeing a hotspot that isn't all that impressive. look at it this way....the SST-50's aren't all that different than the MC-E when both are used in the same type of light...the trade-off is that the SST's will have better beam quality (especially in throwing applications) but they are less efficient. personally, i think putting an SST-50 in a P60 or a light of similar size (like the M21) is a waste of a great emitter.
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  6. #6

    Default Re: SST 50 WOES!

    Quote Originally Posted by gcbryan View Post
    I guess it just depends on what exactly you were expecting.

    An XR-E has greater surface brightness than the other emitters so all things being equal they always throw further.

    The SST-50, MC-E and P7 depending on how they are driven can put out about the same lumens. They are relatively floody unless in a larger reflector.

    Why did you buy the SST-50? Meaning, what were your expectations and the reason for this purchase?

    I purchased the Tiablo A-50 expecting it to overshadow the ACE-G, figuring it being 900 lumens? I purchased the M21 to have a pocket sized torch and figuring it being one of the newer LED's, I thought it should have some significant light with at least some throw.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: SST 50 WOES!

    Quote Originally Posted by stallion2 View Post
    ...
    Personally, i think putting an SST-50 in a P60 or a light of similar size (like the M21) is a waste of a great emitter.
    I agree. I think a XP-G R5 is the perfect top of line emitter in a P60 and beyond that you need a bigger head to be worthwhile (bigger body too regarding batteries and heatsinking).

  8. #8

    Default Re: SST 50 WOES!

    Quote Originally Posted by jhc37013 View Post
    My buddy has the M20 Ti the same internals as the M21 and I compared my P20C2 XP-G up against it and my light was actually brighter in both spill and throw. The M21 is still a nice light but for me not worth ordering one giving their is plenty of SST-50 lights that are driven harder, of course your going to lose runtime with those types.

    Be sure you extensively research a light before you order it this can save you from ordering something that doesn't live up to your expectations. Look over every review, output graph lumens/lux and run time graphs you can.
    I did some research but more visual research where I compared beamshots. I guess I rode on Tiablo's tailcoat expecting a much better product that would deliver more than the ACE-G. Maybe I had high expectations but come on now, shouldn't the A-50 be at least similar if not better than the ACE-G?

  9. #9

    Default Re: SST 50 WOES!

    Quote Originally Posted by stallion2 View Post
    stick it out for a little longer. i had similar feelings towards the XP-Gs w/ my first two emitters but now i'm an XP-G junkie. i'm not sure about the A50 but the M21 is designed as more of a flood lamp, not a thrower...thats likely why you're seeing a hotspot that isn't all that impressive. look at it this way....the SST-50's aren't all that different than the MC-E when both are used in the same type of light...the trade-off is that the SST's will have better beam quality (especially in throwing applications) but they are less efficient. personally, i think putting an SST-50 in a P60 or a light of similar size (like the M21) is a waste of a great emitter.

    I don't know about better beam quality? I'm barely getting a throw out of the A-50? The throw is slightly more than the M21 only because of the reflector size. I'm trippin' because the A-50 couldn't be this bad of a torch? Or could it?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: SST 50 WOES!

    If someone was looking for a bright flood light they wouldn't consider it to be a bad light would they?

    Throw is about emitter surface brightness. The Eagletec that you like is using a XP-E, the MC-E that you mentioned ACE G is basically using 4 XR-E's.

    It sounds to me like you just didn't know why you were ordering the A50. If I ordered a VW Bug and was disappointed that it wasn't like a Porsche it wouldn't be the Bug's fault.

    I saw how much the A50 sells for so I can understand if you paid $150 and got a light that you don't like that you wouldn't be too happy.

    If I was looking for a thrower my first choice wouldn't be a SST-50 unless product reviews had shown that it was fully driven and was perhaps using an aspheric in addition to that.

    Send it back if you have that option. It sounds like you ordered a M21 without doing your research on that one either.

  11. #11

    Default Re: SST 50 WOES!

    I don't know about better beam quality? I'm barely getting a throw out of the A-50?
    Are you seriously equating beam quality with throw?
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  12. #12
    Flashaholic* Ray_of_Light's Avatar
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    Default Re: SST 50 WOES!

    I returned an Olight M20 Titanium for this very reason.
    The M20 Titanium (cannot speak for the M21, but it seems to use the same driver) uses an SST-50 and is claimed for 500 lumen, presumably at the emitter.
    With my surprise, I measured 1.2 Amp at the tailcap at 6 V, which translates roughly as 1.7 Amp at the emitter.
    As matter of fact, the total flux of the M20 Titanium (and I presume, the M21 too) was lower than the M20r5 and the new Fenix TK12, both using an R5 Led.

    If you add the fact that the M20T doensn't regulate on a 18650, and the fact that after 10 minutes of operation it becomes hot to the touch, triggering the thermal protection which reduces the output further, you can understand why I returned the expensive, nice looking M20 Titanium.
    From further understanding, I decided to not buy any lights using underdriven and under-heatsinked SST-50 LED.

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  13. #13
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    Default Re: SST 50 WOES!

    First off....the A50 is 500 lumens not 900 as advertised. The A50 is only sold in China and they mis-quoted the Tiablo numbers. Apparently they were sold out of the normal Tiablo authorized channels. Mine pulls 1.8 amps at the tailcap. (SST-50 is 1.75 amps at 500 emitter lumens) Additionally you'll notice it has three modes (high, low, strobe) Not 4 modes as advertised. (high, med, low, strobe) I just finished modding mine with a 2.8 amp driver board. It is showing 2.65 amps at the tailcap now, and it is an obvious surge over stock output. The SST-50 is always gonna be floody, but the Tiablo A50 reflector is tops as far as throw goes. Not to mention it is absolutely flawless, with a beautiful ringless spot, and great gradient off center. Everyone should expierience an A50 reflector. It is equal to the Jetbeam M2S in throw even though it has 60% of the power. Plus the Jetbeam is all hot spot, and has no gradient to speak of. Combine that with super-wide spill that lights up your surroundings, and you get blinded up close and can't see crap beyond the hot-spot. Then you'll appreciate the A50 beam pattern. My next project will be a new light module with 5 amps combined with the A50 head. Too bad Tiablo has got some kinda problems getting their lights to the USA market, and can't build a properly regulating single battery light to save their lives.
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  14. #14

    Default Re: SST 50 WOES!

    You should have checked beam shots before you purchased, or at least checked comparison reviews at a bare minimum.

    That, and you should take lumen numbers as grains of salt when they are not specifying whether they are OTF(out the front) or OTE (out the emitter).

    Lastly, from what I've seen most of the SST-50 emitters are only very impressive when they are running 2x18650 and up. The 1x18650 lights don't seem that impressive, at least with their numbers.
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    Default Re: SST 50 WOES!

    What A50 beamshots?
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  16. #16

    Default Re: SST 50 WOES!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray_of_Light View Post
    As matter of fact, the total flux of the M20 Titanium (and I presume, the M21 too) was lower than the M20r5 and the new Fenix TK12, both using an R5 Led.
    I didn't measure M20 Titanium, but M21 is about 10% brighter than Fenix TK12 R5 and EagleTac T20C2 R5 in my integrating sphere. But also about 20% less bright than Fenix TK30 with 1x18650 (370 lumens claimed by the Fenix).

    I agree that SST-50 is good when driven with more than 3 amps, but with lower drive currents is MC-E or XP-G much better.

  17. #17
    Flashaholic* stallion2's Avatar
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    Default Re: SST 50 WOES!

    Quote Originally Posted by mpireone View Post
    I don't know about better beam quality? I'm barely getting a throw out of the A-50? The throw is slightly more than the M21 only because of the reflector size. I'm trippin' because the A-50 couldn't be this bad of a torch? Or could it?
    MC-E's and the other multi-die emitters frequently have dark spots in their beam. the more a beam profile is sharpened using these types of emitters the more noticeable the spots become. the SST-50, being a single die emitter, is far less likely to exhibit these aberrations. for all out throw the XR-E is still king. it's combination of raw output, small surface area and a narrow output angle make for a much better starting point when developing a throwing beam. you might look at Thrunite's Catapult...its a phenomenal light, one of my favorites.

    Quote Originally Posted by jcw122 View Post
    Lastly, from what I've seen most of the SST-50 emitters are only very impressive when they are running 2x18650 and up. The 1x18650 lights don't seem that impressive, at least with their numbers.
    i've had great results w/ SST-50's used on a single cell. i have one SST-50 lamp from Nailbender that i installed in a TX3 turbo head. it's a 3-mode direct drive that i've been using w/ 26650 IMR and it's probably my favorite setup as far as a high-output lights go. i also managed to salvage a DBS XP-G that was pretty underwhelming when it first arrived. i ended up using the XP-G pill w/ something else and then bored the emitter opening in the reflector and installed an SST-50 regulated at 2.8A, single-mode, again from Nailbender. it runs on an 18650. maybe Nailbender is the X-factor here.
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  18. #18
    Flashaholic* psychbeat's Avatar
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    Default Re: SST 50 WOES!

    ^^^^werd

    I have a NB 2.5a regulated SST50 3mode in my C2
    and I LOVE the 5700k tint and the beam is SUPER smooth.
    I dont understand why an XP-G would be "better" unless
    it was a better CRI or something- I know the XP-G is a little more
    efficient but the tint of my SST50 is WAY better
    than the tint of all the cool XP-G R5s Ive seen and used so I dont
    think the SST as an emitter is "wasted" being driven at only
    2.5A.

    YMMV
    Last edited by psychbeat; 04-29-2010 at 11:31 AM. Reason: sppeeelliinng

  19. #19
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    Default Re: SST 50 WOES!

    Quote Originally Posted by bigchelis View Post
    If I am not mistaken these SST-50 lights you are talking about are driven at 2.5A~2.8A in which case they make 500ish OTF lumens (good cells and adequate heatsink).

    The MC-E or P7 lights also driven at 2.8A tend to make 550~700 OTF.



    The SST-50's I have tested were driven at 4.55A~5.5A and they were 986 and 1000.8 OTF respectively. You should get a nice beam with underdriven SST-50's, but they need to be pushed hard to get them to shine as intended.

    bigC
    +1 bigchelis nailed it here. I have found that the SST-50 needs 3.5+ amps for it to start walking away from a SSC P7 output wise.

  20. #20
    Flashaholic* psychbeat's Avatar
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    Default Re: SST 50 WOES!

    output wise yes- BUT
    the SST is a single die and has a smoother beam
    allowing more variation in which reflector is used
    without having nasty donut holes or other artifacts.

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    Default Re: SST 50 WOES!

    Quote Originally Posted by psychbeat View Post
    output wise yes- BUT
    the SST is a single die and has a smoother beam
    allowing more variation in which reflector is used
    without having nasty donut holes or other artifacts.
    Agreed and also the SST-50 and SST-90 work well with aspherical lenses.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: SST 50 WOES!

    Quote Originally Posted by bigchelis View Post
    If I am not mistaken these SST-50 lights you are talking about are driven at 2.5A~2.8A in which case they make 500ish OTF lumens (good cells and adequate heatsink).

    The MC-E or P7 lights also driven at 2.8A tend to make 550~700 OTF.



    The SST-50's I have tested were driven at 4.55A~5.5A and they were 986 and 1000.8 OTF respectively. You should get a nice beam with underdriven SST-50's, but they need to be pushed hard to get them to shine as intended.

    bigC
    ...presumably you are talking about current at the emitter not at the tail, correct?
    Last edited by Illumination; 04-29-2010 at 01:32 PM.
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  23. #23
    Flashaholic* stallion2's Avatar
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    Default Re: SST 50 WOES!

    Quote Originally Posted by psychbeat View Post
    ^^^^werd

    I have a NB 2.5a regulated SST50 3mode in my C2
    and I LOVE the 5700k tint and the beam is SUPER smooth.
    I dont understand why an XP-G would be "better" unless
    it was a better CRI or something- I know the XP-G is a little more
    efficient but the tint of my SST50 is WAY better
    than the tint of all the cool XP-G R5s Ive seen and used so I dont
    think the SST as an emitter is "wasted" being driven at only
    2.5A.

    YMMV
    the SST's definitely have more consistency in their tints. my NB SST-50 is a little cool white but all the others are yellowish. a lot of people whine about that but to my eyes the yellow/greenish tints create a more natural glare off trees and leaves than the "warm" tints. high CRI's are in a different league altogether. the tints on the XP-G's i have are all over the map...cool-white, neutral, yellow...and the distribution across those tints has been about a 1:1:1 ratio. all three tints are perfectly fine w/ me.

    the NB 2.8A SST-50 i purchased was a P60 lamp and its performance was pretty impressive. great beam, MASSIVE hotspot and pretty bright but it had much more of a wow factor when i put it in the DBS. i still like the XP-G's better in a P60 format (especially if its in the 1.5A range), so long as its paired w/ a reflector that compliments its advantages.
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