DIY Cut Mag 1.5D SST-90 2000 Lumen Rebel Mag Deep SMO >50,000 lux @ 1 meter!

I've being wanting to make another SST-90 with higher drive current than IMR 26650 DD, which only gave me 4-5A.
Tired of waiting for 9A CC driver, I decided to give the 4xAA a try after seeing overdog got 9A.

The goal is a thrower, A couple of things & specs:

1, Use 4xEneloop AA to DD SST-90, heard good things from overdog build
2, Make it 1.5D, incase I want to get longer run time, it'll fit IMR 26650 for DD.
3, Use Mag Rebel SMO deep reflector, heard good things from Techjunkie builds
4, DIY Mag 1.5D by cutting from the tail & re-joint the body using hand tools. This way, no need to re-locate
the switch & the thread is intact, so no need to re-thread the mag as I can't do that without a lache.
This has never been done before, not that I am aware of at least.

I've done a few mag cut down from the switch end when no focus is needed:
(https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/254481)
but in this case, the longer Rebel SMO reflector would need to retain the mag focus ability to find the
best focal point, so I needed a new way to cut the mag down without messing with the top half.

I don't have a lot of time, so I am doing this by phase, may take a few weeks.

Phase I. Mag 2D cut-down to make 1.5D Quard Bored Host.

Mark the cutting location on 2D mag(Left), Right = Mag 1.5D 1185 as control.


First cut, pretty rough around the edges:


To bore out one end, I taped my drill to constant on, tape marked the depth on the grinder & went at it:


This only took 20 min, actually much easier than I thought:


Now, you want to make sure it's a bit taller, as the next step is to
grind down the tail end & inserted into the enlarged body tube.


The finished host, The grinding of the end & inserting tail end to the body was much harder than I anticipated
to make a clean connection. Due to the large diameter, I could not grind the tail end perfectly.
There's a visible scar that i could not get rid off upon joining the two sections.

So I decided to allow the joint to have a small gap, then glued an GITD O-ring in the gap to
cover up the flaws:



Didn't have a picture here but I also Quad bored the tube before re-join the tail section,
(I broke a round 10mm diameter metal file in half, stick it into the drill to do the quard bore)
so that I could insert the 4xAA DEFT battery holder (left over from the MagDEFT project) with 4xEneloop AAs.

This host is the one on the right, I felt bad that I had to cover-up the joint with an o-ring,
so I decided to dress-up the DIY body with the fancy FM head.

This was all I could finish so far, hopefully, I have more time this coming weekend.
can't wait to get a focusable SST-90 into the Mag Rebel SMO deep reflector.

Stay-tuned.


Phase II. 1x26650 DD set-up with Rebel SMO beam shots.

First, solder up with 20G Teflon wire & then Arctic Silver glue down to the brightlumen's SST-90 magD heat sink.
To make the heat transfer really really well & the actic silver as thin as possible, I pressed the LED down while curing.
I grind off the rim so that that heat sink could go inside the tube.



I also rind off the bottom "skirt" of the heatsink, because the heat sink couldn't sit low enough
with the "skirt" on to achieve optimal focus. There's is no room for any driver, as the reflector is deep &
the heat sink is long, when I press it in for optimal focus, the skirtless heat sink is pretty much sitting on
top the switch, with minimal space just enough to fold the wires.


This will give you an idea how deep the heat sink has to go in, it's about half of an inch!


I found out that the optimal focus point is at the bottom of the hole, the heat sink led post does not
go into the hole. But it's necessary to open the hole up to allow the post go in first before tighten the
reflector. This way, you can back-out the led to focus point but the reflector has been perfectly centered.



I never got any luck with getting a natually low Vf SST-90, this is no exception,
I tested my SST-90 glued to heat sink with IMR 26,650 & AW IMR 26,500, in both cases,
I got about 3.5A. WTF? This is not acceptable, as there's no way I could get up to 9A with 4AA
with a high Vf SST-90.

Electrical Shock Therapy to lower Vf.

It's time to take some risk, I decided to take the matter into my own hands to lower the lED Vf. I remember seeing a post by Techjunkie that his SST-90 vf dropped quite a bit after accidentally over shot with current into the 14Amp range.

I rigged up two of my 3V LPFe04 26,650 to shock the LED while watching the Amp.
The battery was at 3.1V each, so the shock is conducted at 6.2V Direct Drive.

I gave it 3 short busts of 10 sec. 10 sec & 20 sec, while allowing it to cool in between.
The shock current went through the LED was 15 Amp.




Wola, it worked!
The SST-90 Vf was lowered & I am now getting 5 Amp with IMR 26650 4.1V DD.
This is the condition (IMR 26,650 at 4.1V-4.0v) that the following beam shots vs. Mag 85 were conducted,
which runs on 3x17670 @ 4.1V.


At 5 Amp, Auto Exposure Point & Shoot





Beam shots are indoor at about 18ft, manual step down to super low exposure,
1/1000, F2.6. ISO400. mag 85:



Step down to super low exposure,
1/1000, F2.6. ISO400. SST-90 Mag Rebel Deep SMO IMR 26650 DD, 5 Amp:
It has a very tight hot spot, smaller than Mag85 hotspot & also has a very bright corona around it.
The small hot spot is more obvious in person than in the picture.
I was amaze at how tight the beam is as well as how nice the beam is, without OP,
it doesn't need OP treatment at all, that's 30% free lumen right there.




Same condition, with the two stacked on top of each other, With the Deep Rebel Mag SMO,
The SST-90 had already out thrown the Mag 85 using IMR 26,650 DD.




Summary of Phase II:

Beating the Mag 85 is no small task. Mag85 is my fav. incan of all time, with a smaller filament, it throw better than
ROP Hi, mag 5761 as well as FM1909 which put out a lot more lumens but with a large filament. It is the only incan
hot wire I've kepted as a bench mark for my LED mods. In a previous light I made & Sold :
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/259302

It was a SSR-50 that was driven to 5 Amp, which later was measured by Big C to be >1000 OTF lumens &
~20,700 Lux @ 1 meter. Look for the one listed: ma_sha1 2C mag with SST-50
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/260659

In the mean time, at the end of my MagDEFT build(https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3367972)m
I measured the Mag85 throw to be 23750 lux @ 1 meter.

Which means that this SST-90 with the Rebel SMO at 5Amp (out throws the Mag85) will out throw
my previous SSR-50 at 5Amp (DX OP P7 reflector, which was a darn good reflector already).

Everyone knows that it's much harder to made a big die throw further than a smaller die, the difference made
here would have to come out from the the Mag Rebel SMO deep reflector, which is nothing short of amazing,
amazing throw with a amazing beam quality. Did I say amazing?


Phase III. Beef up the DEFT 4xAA holder try to get more AMP.

Stay tuned, hopefully I get some time on Sunday to do this. The DEFT 4xAA holder is cheaply made,
only gives 2AMP on DD with 4x Eneloop in stock form, will need some serious work to get to the 8-9A range.


Here is the finished battery holder, it took more work than I thought it would,
I spent half a day on this battery holder conversion & made into an all copper construction, ultra low resistance piece:


With the 4AA in series, the set-up measured 5.65V total. At start-up, the current measured at just over 8Amp,
but dropping quickly. But the time I got my camera ready & took a picture, it's around 7.7 Amp.



Curious to see how much improvement over the IMR 26,650 DD, I took out my DX lux meter & measured lux @ 5 meters.
Then converted back to Lux @ 1 meter for both 26,650 DD & 4AA Eneloop DD.

1.5D Mag SST-90, Rebel SMO IMR 26,650 DD:........................... 5 Meter Lux: 1350:...................1 Meter Lux 33,750
1.5D Mag SST-90, Rebel SMO 4xAA Eneloops DD:....................... 5 Meter Lux: 1800: ..................1 Meter Lux 45,000

Compares to some of other reflector based throwers I posted previously at the end of MagDEFT thread:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/268894
1.5D Mag 1185 3x17670:.........................................5 Meter Lux: 950;.................... 1 Meter Lux 23750
5xCree WF500 2x18500: ..........................................5 Meter Lux: 1130;....................1 Meter Lux 28250

All I can say is Wow, 45,000 Lux with a big SST-90 & 2" Reflector, that's a real thrower!
Again, DX lux meter tend to read low by 20%-40% depends on who you ask,
So the real lux of this light driven by fresh 4xAA Eneloops is easily over 50,000 lux.

Re: DIY Cut-down Mag 1.5D SST-90 ~2000 Lumens Rebel Mag Deep Reflector for throw

nice idea cutting from the tail. I've done several mag D cutdowns by the decapitation method, but like your idea since it retains the focusing function and leaves the switch hole intact.

Another way to cover the joint is to use bicycle inner tube cut to size. It slides on easily since the inside is powder coated, but stretches nicely to fit the mag body and gives great grip. I've done that with all my C and D cell lights. I used it on one mod where I dremmeled the switch hole too big so the rubber boot kept falling out. I just covered it with the grippy and presto - no more issues. Cheap and very functional.

Re: DIY Cut-down Mag 1.5D SST-90 ~2000 Lumens Rebel Mag Deep Reflector for throw

Thanks,

This is a learning exp., my first tail cut mag D, gave me some confidence for c mag cuts in the future.

Re: DIY Cut-down Mag 1.5D SST-90 ~2000 Lumens Rebel Mag Deep Reflector for throw

I would love to see what kind of beam you get with the rebel reflector.

Right now I have my SST-90 3D mag running with 3 tenergy nimh D cells. I have seen just over 9A on a fresh charge with them. You should get some good #s out of 4AA, just less runtime.

I am waiting on an aspheric lens and sku 18841 reflector from DX. I want to see how the beam looks with each of those too. I tried to buy the rebel reflector but was told they are not for sale seperate!

Re: DIY Cut-down Mag 1.5D SST-90 ~2000 Lumens Rebel Mag Deep Reflector for throw

Dave 88 said:

I would love to see what kind of beam you get with the rebel reflector.

Right now I have my SST-90 3D mag running with 3 tenergy nimh D cells. I have seen just over 9A on a fresh charge with them. You should get some good #s out of 4AA, just less runtime.

I am waiting on an aspheric lens and sku 18841 reflector from DX. I want to see how the beam looks with each of those too. I tried to buy the rebel reflector but was told they are not for sale seperate!

Click to expand...

I am surprised that 3D 3.6V could get 9A? What model of amp meter are you using?
MY 4.2v IMR 26650 & AW IMR 26500 only gave me 4-5A. But you never know, it's a Vf lottery with SST-90.

Yes, 4AA will be short run time, that's why I cut the host 1.5D instead of 1D, so that I can load up an IMR 26650 to give the light a long run time option.

As far as rebel reflector, I wish they sell separate too, had to take it out of rebel mag but I used the mag body for MagDEFT mod, so nothing went to waste.

I believe Techjunkie already got some beam shots on the rebel reflector, looked very nice.

Re: DIY Cut-down Mag 1.5D SST-90 ~2000 Lumens Rebel Mag Deep Reflector for throw

I have an el-cheapo multimeter from DX XL830L is the # on it. It may be way off but I am kinda hoping that its close enough. I am using some thicker wires to take the readings 14awg to handle the currents. I have also modified the switch a little bit in hopes to lower its resistance.

The lens and reflector came in today. The lens was a waste. It does focus well but requires the head to be completely unscrewed. As for the aspheric, well thats already been said before.

As for the Vf of my SST-90 FWIW I got mine from 4sevens

Don't mean to steal your thread

GL with the build

Dave

Re: DIY Cut-down Mag 1.5D SST-90 ~2000 Lumens Rebel Mag Deep Reflector for throw

Very inventive of you to make a homemade 1.5 D like that. Can't wait to see the beamshots from it. Does the Deft battery holder have the B- pickup on the front end? Just wondering if you get electrical continuity through the JB-Weld joint, or by the switch. Another subscribe for me.

ma_sha1 said:

1, Use 4xEneloop AA to DD SST-90, heard good things from overdog build

Click to expand...

Have you seen the Silverfox NiMH shoot out thread? I mention it because I think it's possible that Eneloops are a little too good for a direct drive setup like this. They put out over 1 volt under a 10 amp load for more than half of the discharge cycle. As one possible alternative, Sanyo's 2700 mAh were at the top of the list for capacity among all the batteries he tested. More importantly, at the 10 amp load they have 0.1 volt less output than the Eneloops. Overdog mentions in post #22 of his 1D thread he's using an "almost cheap" 2500 mAh AA in his setup. The higher capacity cells seem to generally have higher internal resistance.

Re: DIY Cut-down Mag 1.5D SST-90 ~2000 Lumens Rebel Mag Deep Reflector for throw

Al Combs said:

Very inventive of you to make a homemade 1.5 D like that. Can't wait to see the beamshots from it. Does the Deft battery holder have the B- pickup on the front end? Just wondering if you get electrical continuity through the JB-Weld joint, or by the switch. Another subscribe for me.

Have you seen the Silverfox NiMH shoot out thread? I mention it because I think it's possible that Eneloops are a little too good for a direct drive setup like this. They put out over 1 volt under a 10 amp load for more than half of the discharge cycle. As one possible alternative, Sanyo's 2700 mAh were at the top of the list for capacity among all the batteries he tested. More importantly, at the 10 amp load they have 0.1 volt less output than the Eneloops. Overdog mentions in post #22 of his 1D thread he's using an "almost cheap" 2500 mAh AA in his setup. The higher capacity cells seem to generally have higher internal resistance.

Click to expand...

Thanks, I hope to be able to work on it this weekend. The DEFT battery holder have pos. & neg. all on one end, will need to be re-wired so that negative is at bottom, also beef it up with copper plates to replace those thin springs to handle 10A with ease.

As for eneloop, I am only worried about if not able to go up to 9A,
if I end up with too high of Amp, the stock springs would probably give enough resistance to bring it back, so restraining from excessive "resistance mod" would likely to provide the fine tuning needed.

Re: DIY Cut-down Mag 1.5D SST-90 ~2000 Lumens Rebel Mag Deep Reflector for throw

ma_sha1 said:

Thanks, I hope to be able to work on it this weekend. The DEFT battery holder have pos. & neg. all on one end, will need to be re-wired so that negative is at bottom, also beef it up with copper plates to replace those thin springs to handle 10A with ease.

Click to expand...

So if you rewire the holder, how do you get the current to pass the JB-Weld joint? But on second thought, it seems more likely you made a taper and hammered it together with a block of wood. More details please.

ma_sha1 said:

As for eneloop, I am only worried about if not able to go up to 9A, if I end up with too high of Amp, the stock springs would probably give enough resistance to bring it back, so restraining from excessive "resistance mod" would likely to provide the fine tuning needed.

Click to expand...

It could work the other way to where you randomly get an LED with a vF so high that 4 Eneloops aren't enough. I'm sure you'll monitor the first power-up through your ammeter.

Re: DIY Cut-down Mag 1.5D SST-90 ~2000 Lumens Rebel Mag Deep Reflector for throw

Al Combs said:

So if you rewire the holder, how do you get the current to pass the JB-Weld joint? But on second thought, it seems more likely you made a taper and hammered it together with a block of wood. More details please.

It could work the other way to where you randomly get an LED with a vF so high that 4 Eneloops aren't enough. I'm sure you'll monitor the first power-up through your ammeter.

Click to expand...

I've done enough cut & re-join to have worked out the JB weld trick.
never spread JB weld all the way around & risk of cutting off the electrical path. In stead, Put JB weld on 3 -4 sections & leave the rest bare, that way, when you press it in, only half of the bare alu. has JB weld.

After cure, apply additional around the inside sim all around, usually there's a small gap, it will not go in deep,
but will seal the sim for water tightness.

As far as Vf, I am trying out the Trick that Techjunkie discovered, i.e. hit it with super high current in short burst to lower the vf. I have not had luck getting a low Vf SST-90 natually.

I just finished seeting it up with 26,650 DD. Will post to the bottom of Post #1, this way, al the info are in place post. The Deep Rebel SMO is amazing...

Re: DIY Cut-down Mag 1.5D SST-90 ~2000 Lumens Rebel Mag Deep Reflector for throw

Double post :whoopin:

Re: DIY Cut Mag 1.5D SST-90 2000 Lumen Rebel Mag Deep SMO Reflector vs. Mag 85 Beam S

What do you mean double post?

I edited the same thread, just added additional info to post #1 so that it's easy to read the whole thing vs. look for new updates searching through the thread, is Editing original post considered rule violation?

:thinking:

Re: DIY Cut-down Mag 1.5D SST-90 ~2000 Lumens Rebel Mag Deep Reflector for throw

ma_sha1 said:

I've done enough cut & re-join to have worked out the JB weld trick.
never spread JB weld all the way around & risk of cutting off the electrical path. In stead, Put JB weld on 3 -4 sections & leave the rest bare, that way, when you press it in, only half of the bare alu. has JB weld.

After cure, apply additional around the inside sim all around, usually there's a small gap, it will not go in deep,
but will seal the sim for water tightness.

As far as Vf, I am trying out the Trick that Techjunkie discovered, i.e. hit it with super high current in short burst to lower the vf. I have not had luck getting a low Vf SST-90 natually.

I just finished seeting it up with 26,650 DD. Will post to the bottom of Post #1, this way, al the info are in place post. The Deep Rebel SMO is amazing...

Click to expand...

I'm personally tempted to try something like that myself on my Nailbender SST-90 Direct Drive module.

Though that second video Techjunkie made seems to recommend against that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9WaHtmDrFM&feature=response_watch

I'm guessing there's a very real risk of frying the emitter with this method(especially on an emitter not attached to a proper heatsink). It might be less painful on a bare emitter, but I'm not sure I want to completely kill a $65 module for the sake of slightly better draw on just that module alone.

I'm thinking slathering the entire inside of my 6P host with DeOxit Gold would be good for starters, and maybe replacing the tailcap spring with a gold spring later on if I'm still not "seeing the light". Should be good enough if my goal is to only draw 5-6A from an IMR 18650 battery right?

P.S.
Sorry for the hijack.

Re: DIY Cut Mag 1.5D SST-90 2000 Lumen Rebel Mag Deep SMO Reflector vs. Mag 85 Beam S

Hi nice build.

We used to "burn in" leds all of the time to get the Vf down, but it was performed slightly more gently than the electro shock approach.
We just ran it at the rated drive current for 24 hours and it usually dropped down about as far as it is going to go. It is a lot easier to get an AC drive that will keep up for 24 hours than a DC battery pack version, but at 9 amps - who knows.

I can't argue with success, esp. since that LED has been tested higher before, its just a matter of keeping it from frying a bond wire.

Re: DIY Cut Mag 1.5D SST-90 2000 Lumen Rebel Mag Deep SMO Reflector vs. Mag 85 Beam S

ma_sha1 said:

What do you mean double post?

Click to expand...

No I didn't mean you. I posted #9 and left the room with the editor I launched the Quote window from still open. An hour later I refreshed and saw your post as still being the last. Dummkopf that I am, I thought I remembered posting some other thread.:shakehead Sorry for the confusion.

Re: DIY Cut Mag 1.5D SST-90 2000 Lumen Rebel Mag Deep SMO Reflector vs. Mag 85 Beam S

We just ran it at the rated drive current for 24 hours and it usually dropped down about as far as it is going to go.

Click to expand...

Could you describe the heatsinking you've used for the burn in? thx

Re: DIY Cut Mag 1.5D SST-90 2000 Lumen Rebel Mag Deep SMO Reflector vs. Mag 85 Beam S

Finally finished. Read up on the "Phase III", which is at bottom of post #1.
I was able to get 8Amp with 4xEneloops DD. & the Lux is more than 50,000 lux at 1 meter!

nice homemade battery holder

ma_sha1 said:

Electrical Shock Therapy to lower Vf.

It's time to take some risk, I decided to take the matter into my own hands to lower the lED Vf. I remember seeing a post by Techjunkie that his SST-90 vf dropped quite a bit after accidentally over shot with current into the 14Amp range.

I rigged up two of my 3V LPFe04 26,650 to shock the LED while watching the Amp.
The battery was at 3.1V each, so the shock is conducted at 6.2V Direct Drive.

I gave it 3 short busts of 10 sec. 10 sec & 20 sec, while allowing it to cool in between.
The shock current went through the LED was 15 Amp.

Click to expand...

6.2v direct drived with lifepo4?
that therapy has a lot of risk for the led, the high resistance of the wires of your tester have saved the led

please don't try that with thick wires,the current draw will be much higher, I think the led maybe don't will survive :duck::duck::duck:

moviles said:

nice homemade battery holder

6.2v direct drived with lifepo4?
that therapy has a lot of risk for the led, the high resistance of the wires of your tester have saved the led

please don't try that with thick wires,the current draw will be much higher, I think the led maybe don't will survive :duck::duck::duck:

Click to expand...

Yes, the wire to the alligator clamp were hot to the touch after 20 sec. shock therapy.
Actually, it went as high as 18Amp when I first tried it with 2 battery at 6.5V (I had another pair that was freshly charged up). before I decided to hook up these two that were a bit discharged for "safer" shocking.

The lifepo4 was rated at 10A max, so I was almost doubling that, but very brief, the battery didn't get hot.

ma_sha1 said:

I am surprised that 3D 3.6V could get 9A? What model of amp meter are you using?
MY 4.2v IMR 26650 & AW IMR 26500 only gave me 4-5A. But you never know, it's a Vf lottery with SST-90.

Yes, 4AA will be short run time, that's why I cut the host 1.5D instead of 1D, so that I can load up an IMR 26650 to give the light a long run time option.

As far as rebel reflector, I wish they sell separate too, had to take it out of rebel mag but I used the mag body for MagDEFT mod, so nothing went to waste.

I believe Techjunkie already got some beam shots on the rebel reflector, looked very nice.

Click to expand...

Post number 8 of my Big Red thread has whitewall beamshot comparisons that include the SST-90 in the Mag Rebel reflector. Running that emitter at a regulated 8.4A in that reflector has to be seen to be believed. It puts every other LED torch that I own to shame, and that's a LOT of lights.

Here's an animated GIF comparing a traditional P7 @ 2.8A in a 53mm MOP reflector to the SST-90 @ 8.4A in the Mag Rebel, and finally the PH7388 incan driven to the edge in a 53mm MOP refelctorj. All shots 50ft from target, ISO400, 2sec, F14, WB5200K:

moviles said:

nice homemade battery holder

6.2v direct drived with lifepo4?
that therapy has a lot of risk for the led, the high resistance of the wires of your tester have saved the led

please don't try that with thick wires,the current draw will be much higher, I think the led maybe don't will survive :duck::duck::duck:

Click to expand...

Completely agreed!

ma_sha1 said:

Yes, the wire to the alligator clamp were hot to the touch after 20 sec. shock therapy.
Actually, it went as high as 18Amp when I first tried it with 2 battery at 6.5V (I had another pair that was freshly charged up). before I decided to hook up these two that were a bit discharged for "safer" shocking.

The lifepo4 was rated at 10A max, so I was almost doubling that, but very brief, the battery didn't get hot.

Click to expand...

For clarity's sake, I never recommended hitting the LED with that much voltage. I was measuring 14A current draw at a mere 4.2V!

If you continue to run your LED for extended runs at the 7A+ current that you are getting now, I predict that after a few full battery discharge/rechage cycles you will see even higher current draw on a full charge, probably ~9A if your torch's resistance (and your DMM leads resistance) is/are very low. A metal tab and a clamp meter, as in my videos would measure even higher current because that eliminates the additional resistance of the DMM + leads.

Congratulations on your build. I am sure that you will continue to REALLY like it for a very long time.