Tactical strobes

USACelt

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Has anyone seen a study on the "true" effectivness of tactical strobes. How does the strobe effect the other members of a team and does it make targeting difficult. I was wondering if any gun mag has done any testing. I've tried my strobes in a room and it screws with my head, so I really wouldn't want that feeling entering a room in a search.
 

recDNA

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Has anyone seen a study on the "true" effectivness of tactical strobes. How does the strobe effect the other members of a team and does it make targeting difficult. I was wondering if any gun mag has done any testing. I've tried my strobes in a room and it screws with my head, so I really wouldn't want that feeling entering a room in a search.

I always thought they were utterly useless and just cluttered up the UI until I saw the movie KickAss. Great scene in it involving tactical strobe.
 

Mr Bigglow

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I have to go along with the 'useless' thought. Altho they might induce a grand mal seizure in a susceptible person, you can hardly rely on that. The best thought I've seen is that they would be good attention getters if you're stuck on the highway or something like that.
 

USACelt

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nvm..
i wasnt trying to start another rant on disco modes.
just wondering if anyone had seen evidence against strobes in true tactical situation, actual police testing.
 

Brigadier

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Just my $.02, but the only ones that seem to promote tactical strobes is flashlight manufacturers. For example, SureFire, which is the most used brand by the military and LEO, have very few, if any, models with 'tactical' strobes.

YMMV.
 

JNewell

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nvm..
i wasnt trying to start another rant on disco modes.
just wondering if anyone had seen evidence against strobes in true tactical situation, actual police testing.

I have not, but Ken Goode, who was responsible for the design of a certain light that included a strobe, had a lot of posts, on a forum that is now gone, about the design. He was focused on both frequency, trying to "screw with" eye/brain response, and overall brightness (the emitter was run quite hard relative to constant-on high).

My very informal comparative experiments indicate that there is an incremental benefit from a well-designed strobe mode, but you raise an interesting point about whether there are drawbacks in a situation where there are multiple team members and/or a lot of reflection back at the user.

Edit to add: did a little digging, nothing conclusive. Results (I've pasted in the relevant text from the pages for which links are given):

1. http://www.intopsys.com/nonlethal.html

In close collaboration with the Department of Homeland Security, Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA), and the Technical Support Working Group (TSWG), IOS is developing a family of light-based, non-lethal devices for law enforcement and, potentially, military applications. As alternatives to potentially eye-damaging, laser-based devices, IOS' diversionary devices utilize high powered, multicolored light emitting diode (LED) clusters and complex optical concentrators to produce a temporary high level of visual impairment and potential disorientation of the targeted subject(s), while optical intensities remain at eye-safe levels.

IOS' devices produce extremely bright, strobe sequences of light in different colors. The different colors of light are programmed to flash in a predefined pattern, to which the brain cannot adjust. The effect is a "wall of light," which blinds the adversary and conceals the user's location, giving the user at least a momentary advantage during which the adversary can be subdued.

Potential applications include:

Crowd control in stand-off situations;
Coast Guard operations in confined environments;
Border Patrol duty, for personnel and vehicular protection;
Correctional facility operations and riot control;
Perimeter protection or area denial applications; and
Personal hand-held devices for patrol officer "force-option."

Light-based, non-lethal devices currently under development at IOS include an electronic reusable flash grenade, an electronic reusable flash-bang grenade, and a light emitting diode incapacitator (LEDI).
2. http://web.archive.org/web/20071214041223/www.blackwaterusa.com/btw2004/articles/1025frank.html

Turning the function selector collar one more click to the right / clockwise, you put the illumination tool into "strobe" mode. The strobe/flash feature, called "Wave Length Technology" (and you guessed it, patent pending soon to be trade marked) pulses the light at the optimal rate to interrupt linear thought processes and create an imbalance in your opponent. "Mind numbing" is NOT a turn of phrase here: the human mind actually has a hard time processing images that come in at a certain rate and Night-Ops has designed this light specifically to be the most efficient NON-lethal NON-contact tool an officer can carry to impact his/her opponent's thought process and ability to perform directed behavior. Preliminary research shows that confronting an aggressor with this pattern of light directly into his eyes can cause reactions that are greatly to the advantage of us, the good guys. Those reactions can include: imbalance, involuntary closing of the eyes, turning the head, a loss of depth perception, a feeling of pending physical impact, and sometimes even an increase in heart and respiration rate due to the psychological stress caused by the mental overload. It is important to note that in the strobe position the light only flashes while the tailcap button is depressed. Release the button and the light turns off. Perhaps in the future Night-Ops will find a way to leave the strobe activated under certain circumstances so that it could be used as a personnel marker with or without an infrared filter. It is important to note here that this tool is not meant to replace other force sector options: it is meant to give the officer / soldier a window of opportunity that he then has to leverage to his benefit by selecting the appropriate force option.
3. http://actionsbyt.blogspot.com/2006/12/blackhawk-gladius-flash-light-strobe.html

3) It also incorporates a strobe feature called "Wave Length Technology", which, according to Frank Borelli, who's written an article about the Night-Ops Gladius for the 10/25/04 issue of the Blackwater Tactical Weekly (BTW) Newsletter, "pulses the light at the optimal rate to interrupt linear thought processes and create an imbalance in your opponent". Mr. Borelli goes on to write the following about the Gladius' strobe feature "the human mind actually has a hard time processing images that come in at a certain rate and Night-Ops has designed this light specifically to be the most efficient NON-lethal NON-contact tool an officer can carry to impact his/her opponent's thought process and ability to perform directed behavior. Preliminary research shows that confronting an aggressor with this pattern of light directly into his eyes can cause reactions that are greatly to the advantage of us, the good guys. Those reactions can include: imbalance, involuntary closing of the eyes, turning the head, a loss of depth perception, a feeling of pending physical impact, and sometimes even an increase in heart and respiration rate due to the psychological stress caused by the mental overload. It is important to note that in the strobe position the light only flashes while the tailcap button is depressed."

Mr. Good has stated that the "practical testing of the strobe mode on non-compliant subjects has been simply amazing", on one of the internet forum sites.​
 
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kosPap

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my contribution........and without being a self-proclaim combat expert.....

IF one has EVEN read works like the book by Ken Good, he will understand that Strobe is used MAINLY for distraction and not dissorentation, overpowering etc etc.....

And ontop of that tactical flashlight uisage is not only the "shoot'em-up gamer" application we tend to think of, but of serious meticulous TEAMWORK
 

Mr Bigglow

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In terms of professional combat expertise, I refer people to the British SAS's use of 'flashbang' hand grenades which entail the deployment of one goshamighty flash followed by an eardrum-removing bang. And even those are regarded as a momentary distraction.
 
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Grayblue

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Only good I see in it is that it would make you harder to "track" when you have to use a light while potentially exposed to opponents' view while moving.

Momentary bursts while moving for quick scan of the surrounding is the best way I can think of using it.

Other effect is mostly negative. If you're examining an area for threats, it makes it easier to miss small details.
 

Chrontius

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I have to go along with the 'useless' thought. Altho they might induce a grand mal seizure in a susceptible person, you can hardly rely on that. The best thought I've seen is that they would be good attention getters if you're stuck on the highway or something like that.

Don't knock it. That got me a lost tow truck straight to me once.

Also, it tends to keep people shooting at you from seeing their front sight, so they tend to shoot high.

And yeah, Grayblue has the tactics for strobe pretty well figured out.
 

JNewell

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Only good I see in it is that it would make you harder to "track" when you have to use a light while potentially exposed to opponents' view while moving.

Momentary bursts while moving for quick scan of the surrounding is the best way I can think of using it.

Other effect is mostly negative. If you're examining an area for threats, it makes it easier to miss small details.

We used to train to do that with the momentary switch on the 6P/6Zs. It was actually very effective. (Still is.)
 

Locoboy5150

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Just curious, what was the first flashlight company that made a light with a strobe feature?
 

dano

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Just curious, what was the first flashlight company that made a light with a strobe feature?

Night Ops Gladius was the first strobing light.

When I was carrying a Gladius on duty, I used the strobe, successfully, a few different times.

It works well in low light conditions, but with all LED's, the strobing effect(s) are limited when ambient lighting effects the beam.
 

fletch31

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Ken Good designed the Gladius and was speaking about its strobe feature and frequency. It is somewhere around 12 kHz and was supposed to be the most disorienting and disrupting frequency pattern based on studies. At night, I think its value personally is that it takes away someone's depth perception so you can quickly close the gap and strike or get away. I've given friendly punches to the gut to a few friends with my light. At night from about 10 feet away, you cant tell if its coming or going when its shined in your eyes and combined with the element of surprise I think it is worth having. The majority of the Chinese made drivers have a very crappy and ineffective strobe and I don't prefer them. I get a mild headache from the Gladius strobe and my wife gets nausiated but she is sensitive to sunlight flashing through the trees when she drives. Both of my Gladius lights are currently modded with XP-G LEDs and were previously modded with Seoul P4s.
 

Solscud007

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I have a gladius jsut for the strobe. It does work. However to answer the OP question about team work, Im not sure.

I was a hardcore airsofter. Discussions about airsoft can be left aside. But suffice to say, it provides opportunities to practice force on force scenarios.

I have used the gladius many times during cqb and a few outdoor night scenarios. It works wonders at making me a harder target to shoot at. However that is also due to the fact that I rarely sit still when I attack.

I use the gladius as a force multiplier for my offensive game strategy. I use it when i attack. It does cause confusion and provides a slim opportunity that I can take advantage of and take out my opponents.

Here is a video I shot while playing. take a look at the notes I posted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaT4IbPE6go

there are two scenes where I use the gladius effectively. the first time is up against a large member of the National Guard (they came to play against us)

the second time is when i unleash upon a whole bunch of players. granted these are unseasoned players but the gladius does work. one guy tries to shoot me but completely misses. partly due to the pain of my gun's bbs and the rapid flashing makes it tough to aim.

The strobe works but it requires you to move, I never stay still when I attack. It is a simple fact that moving targets are tougher to hit. and it has to be dark or low light.

In terms of using the strobe to search I dont have problems with that. But I would just switch the gladius to constant on. I programed my gladius to turn on at the lowest setting for constant on. momentary is full brightness. plus upgraded with Seoul P4 for 160 lumens.
 

Grayblue

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... It is somewhere around 12 kHz and was supposed to be the most disorienting and disrupting frequency pattern based on studies. ....
Are you sure it's 12kHz, not 12Hz?

12kHz is higer than my monitor screen refresh speed, and I'm not disoriented by my monitor.
 

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