Why does STREAMLIGHT COMPROMISE on Flashlight desi

OK, here is my question. Why does STREAMLIGHT COMPROMISE on Flashlight design? Using Resistors instead of better heat sinking? Not using Regulation.

Streamlight is a FLASHLIGHT company. That is their main business. And, they make some VERY VERY good lights, some of their lights, like the Stinger Series and XL-20 and XL-35 are workhorse lights that are used by untold thousands of LEO professionals. They set the standard, and it appears that nobody is even in the running to knock them from their throne.


Here are some questions that I have:

2L Twintask - 2, 123a batteries, and a Bright Xenon Bulb or 3 LED's. Why didn't they put 6 or 10 or more LED's in that light? They have the power source! Nothing is wrong with 3 LED's, but why not put in more, and have your choice of high or low LED output?

2D and 3C TwinTask - the 2D has MORE LED's than the 3C.(10 vs 6), yet the 3C has more power (4.5 volts vs 3 volts) It seems to me that a 3D would have been a better choice than the 2D.

TL-3 - 5 watt Luxeon Star LED with 3, 123a batteries. They are using a simple resistor not regulation or direct drive on this 104.95 light? I want to be treated better if I am paying over a hundred bucks for a light. I want every last ounce of light that I can get out of the light.

3AA Luxeon Task Light - there is a resistor in the light. Can't they heat sink it better so it can withstand the heat and they would not have to heat sink it? And while there have been lots of reports about nice white color, there have been reports of "Luxeon Lottery Green" leds also.

I think that these are all GOOD LIGHTS, and several of them are on my "want to buy" list, but I would like for them to be as bright as can be, and I feel that Streamlight is not ringing out every last lumen it can in these lights, or not a well thought out design.

Anyone have any thoughts or inside information?

I have no rock solid info, but my guess would be the target market they are trying to hit. If they can keep the price down (and with a low price often comes a low level of features), they may believe that they can sell to people that would never consider buying something such as a Surefire. My guess would be they may be trying to fill a niche in the market and sell to people who want a decent light but have never held the power of a Surefire.

-Mike

The more features a flashlight has, the more it costs. You start regulating this and that, better lens, better finish, better switch.... you'll end up with a $175 A2 Aviator style light that everyone complains is TOO expensive.

I think for the vast majority of flashlight users, digital regulation means nothing to them. When I try to explain to my friends that my L4 has regulation, they say "that's cool, whatever that is....dang this thing is bright"

They could care less. Would an average Joe Shmoe take the time to understand all the benefits of say, an L4 or A2? Nope, they look at the price and gawk at it. Then buy a Mag or something.

If you ask 1000 people to design the perfect flashlight, you probably would get 1000 different lights, some with 3 LEDs, some with 6, some with 10, some with regulation, some with resistors. Your wanting 6 or more LEDs in a 2L may seem like a no brainer to you but to someone else, 3 may be too many.

I personally think the Magcharger sets the standard for LEO flashlights and is superior to the Streamlight rechargeables. So who knows what market SL is trying to influence. Anyway, just my thoughts on it.

[ QUOTE ]
FoxMulder said:
(...)
If you ask 1000 people to design the perfect flashlight, you probably would get 1000 different lights, some with 3 LEDs, some with 6, some with 10, some with regulation, some with resistors. Your wanting 6 or more LEDs in a 2L may seem like a no brainer to you but to someone else, 3 may be too many.
(...)

[/ QUOTE ]

And I would bet that they went with 3 to hit the lower end of the market and keep the price down.

-Mike

Yeah, that seems like the most likely possibility. Keeping the price down.

I think Fox was right on with the "Maglite or something," and Streamlight wants to replace that something.

-Mike

The Tasklight line appears to be basically a rebadged collection of Nuwai flashlights. Nuwai appears to make some customer specific changes to the machining aesthetics, but the guts seem to be largely Nuwai. This isn't to say that Streamlight hasn't made choices on a design menu with Nuwai.

This line seems to be consistent with Nuwai quality and apparently addresses the LED price/performance points Streamlight wanted to cover.

The people who really know the answers probably aren't in a position to respond.

Re: Why does STREAMLIGHT COMPROMISE on Flashlight

[ QUOTE ]
BuddTX said:
2L Twintask - 2, 123a batteries, and a Bright Xenon Bulb or 3 LED's. Why didn't they put 6 or 10 or more LED's in that light? They have the power source! Nothing is wrong with 3 LED's, but why not put in more, and have your choice of high or low LED output?


[/ QUOTE ]

Personally, I think three is optimal. If you look at the Newbeam, Aurora, Attitude, etc., it appears 3 LEDs gives you enough light to be usable, yet saves battery power. Typically I think the low output of a light should be oriented towards runtime.

[ QUOTE ]
2D and 3C TwinTask - the 2D has MORE LED's than the 3C.(10 vs 6), yet the 3C has more power (4.5 volts vs 3 volts) It seems to me that a 3D would have been a better choice than the 2D.

[/ QUOTE ]

While the 3C has more voltage, the 2D actually has more "power" - 3C = 25,050 mAh, 2D = 36,000 mAh.

I suspect the issue regarding 3D vs 2D vs 3C all comes down to weight. I don't really know, but I bet 3C and 2D are similar in weight and they probably think most users would find the 3D too heavy.

I'm with you tho, I'd rather have a 3D over a 2D over a 3C light anyday. But then again, I'm biased towards D cells due to their storage capacity.

[ QUOTE ]

TL-3 - 5 watt Luxeon Star LED with 3, 123a batteries. They are using a simple resistor not regulation or direct drive on this 104.95 light? I want to be treated better if I am paying over a hundred bucks for a light. I want every last ounce of light that I can get out of the light.


[/ QUOTE ]

And they want every ounce of margin they can get out of this light!

Our more technical flashaholics might comment, but I suspect they do have a business reason of sorts for using resistors in these lights -- safety margin. Not running the LEDs hard ensures less failures, and less failures due to users doing things like using lithium batteries instead of alkalines.

In the above case, it sounds like the LS spec varies quite a bit and thus use of a resistor would make it so they didn't need to carefully sort or screen the LEDs. This would directly relate to lower costs. Also, the light would be less likely to have problems if they got a LS at the extremes of the spec.

It does make the SF L4 seem like a better deal at $140 tho. I suspect the Streamlight price might go down more then the L4 will.

In the below case, you would have saftey against someone using Li batteries in the light.

[ QUOTE ]

3AA Luxeon Task Light - there is a resistor in the light. Can't they heat sink it better so it can withstand the heat and they would not have to heat sink it? And while there have been lots of reports about nice white color, there have been reports of "Luxeon Lottery Green" leds also.


[/ QUOTE ]

-john

Re: Why does STREAMLIGHT COMPROMISE on Flashlight

MONEY, Price point as other have said.

Streamlight could make flashlights as good as Surefire if they wanted to, but that is not their market in my opinion. They simply want to make flashlights that are better than average.

Streamlight goes to great lengths to make a flashlight that is superior in construction and only fair when it comes down to light output, beam shape etc.

I heard a story a long time ago in the original Surefire forum (my member number is #136 or #137). The story goes that when SL came out with the Scorpion, SF dropped the price of the 6P dramatically to about what the Scorpion was, scared of the competition. A few weeks passed and people saw the Scorpion wasn't in the same league SF jacked the price of the 6P back up.

Streamlight has the market sewed up for the thousands of cops on the beat, but when it comes to the smaller elite SWAT type teams nearly all demand Surefire. When quantiies purchased are lower, and need for the best is high Surefire has got it hands down.


GregR


Today I must sound like some kind of Surefire Marketing guy with all my pro-surefire posts, but I have no connection of ANY kind by the company. I just love their flashlights!

Re: Why does STREAMLIGHT COMPROMISE on Flashlight

I think Streamlight is making some very good compromises.

First regarding the TT2L, 3 led vs. 6:

Some would claim the closest equivalent to this light is the Xenergy 3-in-1 which DOES have 6 LED's... but the reflector, and the whole head, is much larger to accomodate them. To me it's not EDC'able, whereas the TT2L is an awesome EDC.

It might be possible to fit 6 LED's in the 2L, but they would intrude so much on the small reflector as to seriously degrade the beam AND the brightness of the Xenon. Also, IMO, the difference between 3 and 6 LED's is not that much. I feel that if you need more light than 3LED's, you might as well go to the Xenon. IMHO, flashlights should have increments of 4x brightness between settings in order for it to really be meaningful. The 2x (or less) between 3 and 6 LED is too small.

The compromise that bugs me is the cheap plastic lens, easily scratched. Argh. I wish they'd spent the extra two bucks on a glass lens. Oh, well.

I will say this: at $30, I took a chance on the TT2L, and I feel I got what I paid for and more. I have a Scorpion, E2, E2e, Xenergy, and the one I actually use is the TT2L. SF did not cut any corners on the A2 and it is awesome, but then again, they didn't sell one to me at that price.

I don't have any SL Luxeon resistored light, but to that I would say: fine for a no-warranty mod to overdrive an LS at 2 to 3X its rated current, but for a mass production flashlight with a lifetime warranty, I don't think that's reasonable. Also, better heatsinking still results in a flashlight that's too hot to hold. While you or I might not be phazed, that's not appealing to a mass market.

A regulator might have been a superior solution to the resistor, to keep the current at a reasonable level without throwing mW's away; perhaps even auto-adjust the current based on temperature. But now you're talking a lot of added cost, not just for producing the electronics, but also for R&D, future warranty work (complex circuit less reliable than a resistor), and lost time-to-market while developing the circuit.

Regarding the green LED's, yea, that sucks, but, at least they're not the only ones out there with this problem. SF has had some green lights, and some way, way, blue ones. CMG has had some very green lights. Only Arc, AFAIK, will call a light "seconds" if it's too far off as far as color.

In conclusion, I don't find a lot of fault in the compromises that SL has made. And I think it's great that a manufacturer is able to offer fairly high tech, good quality lights at a lower price point for those who are not willing or not able to shell out $150 for a light. If price is no object, you always have SF, and even there, you can always find something you wish they'd done better.

Re: Why does STREAMLIGHT COMPROMISE on Flashlight

Thanks for the replies.

I wanted to clarify my original question. I think that most Streamlight products are very good, and the Professional products, like the Stinger Series and XL-20X and 35X are as good as they can be.

However some of their other lights, as good as they are (and they ARE good, and I own several and want SEVERAL of the new models that they have just released) seem to be lacking something.

I would think that they would have a whole engineering division, that would tweak each light, and get the maximum out of each light.

Yes, I think some lights are designed to sell at a certain price point, but in the example of the TL-3, that is a 100 dollar plus light. If it is simply a light with a resistor and a LED, I mean how hard was that to design?

Re: Why does STREAMLIGHT COMPROMISE on Flashlight

Interesting thread. Having used everything from a $2.99 Wal-Mart Special to high-end SureFires, I think Streamlight is shooting for the "middle market".

I just purchased two 3-AA TaskLights for $32 and shipping a piece. The product I received is well worth that expenditure, and one has in fact become my all-purpose around-the-house light.

I have an SL-20 that was purchased new in 1978 when I began my LEO career. It has lived a hard life, looks like hell, and has been rebuilt twice; and it puts any Mag-Charger I've yet to see in the shade.

I have two Stingers, and while the battery lasts they are outstanding lights.

I don't profess to be up-to-speed on regulation, circuitry, etc. But as a consumer who USES his flashlights regularly, and for more than poking around the yard, beam-shot tests, etc., the StreamLight products have been exemplary for me.

Re: Why does STREAMLIGHT COMPROMISE on Flashlight

I don't know much about regulation etc. But I do know that my Madmax stays about the same bright on MinHs for three or so hours until it falls off big time.

I have several Streamlights, from Poly 2AA, to 3C 10LED, to StingerHP, to Tiny Little Keymate, to 3C Twin Task (and should have 1L TT at home today!).

The StingerHP is nearly perfect in design and execution. I could only ask for it to be brighter.

The only thing I can balk about on the 3C TT is the need to cycle through modes. Otherwise I think it is GREAT size and feel.

Keymate is awesome as is.

2AA Xenon doesn't do much for me. I like Pelican 2AA Mighty Lite better.

3C 10LED for me would be better with a body mounted clickie, instead of push tail for momentary/twist head for continous. But pretty nice size and heft.

Each has a purpose. I think the TT models if put out where the masses could see them would sell well. The Pro Polys might even sell better!

But I think SL is doing pretty much the right thing.

Let's keep it LIGHT, and be nice to each other, ok?

Re: Why does STREAMLIGHT COMPROMISE on Flashlight

[ QUOTE ]
PlayboyJoeShmoe said:3C 10LED for me would be better with a body mounted clickie, instead of push tail for momentary/twist head for continous. But pretty nice size and heft.


[/ QUOTE ]

The newer 3C's from Streamlight have a clickie tailcap. No more twist on off.

I agree with everyone else that Streamlight makes very good lights.

I just wish they were tweaked to be as good as they could be.

The things that really bug me, are the:

Luxeon 3AA tasklight having a resistor, and reading that SOME (not all, some reports say they are really white and bright). I want to buy some of these as gifts, and they have to compete with my hand made Mr. bulk Creations.

The 5 Watt Luxeon 3, 123a light, for over 100 dollars, I don't think this is aimed at the middle market at all, and I think it should be a "pull out all the stops" type of light.