Gay Episcopal Bishop in the news-Interesting twist

I am not Episcopalian or gay, but I am close to this issue, as my Dad went to a very conservative Episcopal Church, and the Diocese appointed a Gay priest to be ***'t pastor there, and my family was very involved with that church, so this is an interesting topic for me. It very much devided the church, but did, in some ways strengthen the church, and helped a lot of very conservitive folks and liberal folks develop a "disagree yet love each other" atmosphere.

A very brief backround, and others out there might know more than me so feel free to correct me . . .

The Episcopal Church is deeply divided over the issue of the acceptance of openly gay people, both lay people (no joke) and clergy. It is so divided, that there has been talk of a split in the Church.

The intersting thing is that the Rev. V. Gene Robinson, the priest up for nomination for the Bishop of New Hampshire, has a (quoting from the press) "His partner of 13 years, Mark Andrew".

I was always told that an Episcopialian Priest could be openly gay if he practiced Celebacy, and was not involved in a relationship.

I am Catholic, so for those of you that don't know, a Catholic Priest is always Celebate (Please no jokes about alter boys, that is a horrible situation, and the cover up is also horrendious!), whereas an Episcopialian Priest is allowed to marry, and is often expected to marry and have a family.

So this potential Bishop has a "domestic partner". I thought that was not allowed in the Episcopialian Church for openly gay clergy. In other words, you could be an ordaned Priest, and declare that you are Gay, as long as you are Celebate.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

By posting this, I mean no disrecpect to any person or group, or anyone's lifestyle. While I consider myself very conservative, I also believe that we have Freedom of Choice in America, and every American should be able to choose their own individual "Pursuit of Happiness".

What is interesting here, is that a mainstream Christian Church, that DOES tell people what to do, based on God's law, has traditionally said that homosexuality is against God's law. The same mainstream Churches have also said that we are all sinners, and that God loves every one unconditionally. It is almost as the two statements diametricly opose one another.

On a similar issue, as a Catholic, I have always found it interesting that in catholic Communion, often a HUGE majority of worshipers attending a service will "pass" on Communion. I understand the reasons why, but I found it to not represent what I was taught and believe, and that is God Loves Everybody, and why would the Catholic Church tell people that they cannot "recieve God".

If anyone finds this thread offensive I will delete it, no need to flame. As I said, I respect other people's choices.

Any comments?

I heard that this guy left his wife and some children for a lover that he is now referring to as his spouse. WOW!

[ QUOTE ]
Sasha said:
I heard that this guy left his wife and some children for a lover that he is now referring to as his spouse. WOW!

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if that is true or not, but if it was, wow.

I have a friend that that exact same thing happened to her. She was married, and had a child with this man, and he decided that he was gay and left his wife and child.

When I say left, I mean he completely disappeared out of the child's life.

Re: Gay Episcopal Bishop in the news-Interesting t

I am surprised that any sect of the Organized Religion called Christianity, would accept into its clergy, that which has been a favorite target for intolerance (to put it very mildly). The Vatican Speaketh with Forked Tongue: protecting Pedophile Priests, while Rabidly preaching against Gays.

Sexuality is not a choice. There are 3 sexualities: Heterosexual, Homosexual, and Bisexual. Only the Bisexual has a Gender Choice. So-called lesbians can be grouped in homosexual and bisexual.

Btw, in case you don't know why gays are called f a g g o t s, the word is french and means a bundle of wood. Firewood, to be a bit exact. Gays were thrown on the pile of wood, for Witch and Heretic Burnings.

Also, Hate and Intolerance are things of Satan, not God. Everytime I hear things like "Jesus Loves you, EXCEPT......" I feel like puking.

Re: Gay Episcopal Bishop in the news-Interesting t

Let's not turn this into a gay-bashing or hating thread. And let's not start bashing religions either. (Bruce... I should ban you for starting this thread... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif )

... This is an interesting topic in that the hypocrisy overfloweth. Regardless of your own personal beliefs, the beliefs of the members of this church have just been trampled on. It is the responsibility of the church (any church!) to be faithful to it's members. I think in this instance, the church has let it's members down and left them to flounder wondering what to believe in. That is wrong... IMHO.

Re: Gay Episcopal Bishop in the news-Interesting t

First Mr. Bulk cuts me off, now you!

I did not mean for this to be pro/anti gay or pro/anto Church or pro/anti Christian or pro/anti American. It is an interesting current event that has to do with those issues however.

I think a lot of us here have strong opinions on this.

I for one, have a perspective that I do not hear repeated a lot. As a Christian and a Conservative, I have strong personal opinions on having high moral values, but as an American, I believe that each person has a right to live their life as they want, as long as it doesn't affect society.

To me, this is almost like a main stream Christian Church saying that Jesus never existed, or that the 10 commandants can be broken.

Re: Gay Episcopal Bishop in the news-Interesting t

Sasha. I must disagree with your statement that it is the duty of a church to support its members. The church does have a duty to its members but it is to teach the Bible and what it says. To create a body of believers that "go with the flow" does a dis-service to them. That is to say there is no truth to the teaching, except what feels good. That is new age rhetoric.

Man is made in the image of God. If you want to know what God looks like, look in the mirror. The Bible is the wisdom of God. If a man calls himself a follower of Christ he need not approve of everyone but he must love and pray for them. He must not fall into the pit of judgement. That is a problem I have. I tend to judge people by their looks when I know this is wrong. I don't know the mind of God or what great plans he may have for another man. We all need to be gentle in our disapproval of anothers actions, without be judgemental. This is a narrow slippery path of course and should be avoided if possible. I'm still trying.

Re: Gay Episcopal Bishop in the news-Interesting t

2dogs... let's not turn this into a sermon thread either. We all have our own thoughts and beliefs when it comes to the bible and God and religion. I'm of the belief that no one is wrong. And I'll close this thread down if anyone starts to imply that someone else's beliefs are somehow wrong.

Now... you misinterpreted my post. I wrote:

[ QUOTE ]
It is the responsibility of the church (any church!) to be faithful to it's members.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I mean by this is that the church has a responsibility to stand by what it preaches and not be hypocritical. I further wrote:

[ QUOTE ]
the church has let it's members down and left them to flounder wondering what to believe in.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not new age rhetoric. That's the truth. The church is waffling. The members are disillusioned. The members don't know what to believe in. Their church has let them down. I agree that if the church creates a body of believers that "go-with-the-flow", it is a great dis-service! And that is what this church is doing. Did I somehow imply otherwise? If I did, I apologize for not being clearer.

Re: Gay Episcopal Bishop in the news-Interesting t

Sasha please don't close this thread on account of me. Delete my post if you wish. I wasn't trying to sermonize but merely trying to point out the truths of the Christian church in general. It is unfortunate to have to refer to "the Church" when we mean a specific "strain" of Christianity. Of course we can't talk about that here. I mean that sincerely.

I agree the church has let its members down and they don't know what to think. We all must be tolerant of other's behavior, but that doesn't mean we have to condone that behavior. That can be confusing.

Again I'm not trying to sermonize. I won't mention my church or its beliefs. I suppose we shouldn't even discuss religion here. My faith is near and dear to me and I share it with others. Sometimes I choose the wrong place or the wrong words. Please accept my apology.

Re: Gay Episcopal Bishop in the news-Interesting t

Sexuality is a choice. People are not born heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual. People are born people. People make a choice as to their sexuality.

Jesus loves the whole world, and is a friend to the whole world. He is able to forgive the sins of the people of the world, but it is not automatic. People have to be teachable, and come to Him, and ask for forgiveness.

Re: Gay Episcopal Bishop in the news-Interesting t

*cough* Sermon *cough*

Sorry, I am atheist. I will say no more...

Re: Gay Episcopal Bishop in the news-Interesting t

mmm yes... *cough* Sermon *cough* Stop *cough* Now *cough*... *snort*... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Re: Gay Episcopal Bishop in the news-Interesting t

Before this thread is closed down, could someone explain to me why Catholic Priests are not allowed to marry? I never understood that. Does the Bible say that somewhere or what is the origin? My friend's brother a very, very decent man was a Priest. Several years ago, he fell in love with a woman and gave up the Priesthood so he could marry her, although I think he still had a deep belief in the Christian God. He was then renounced (there is a term for this but I can't think of it) from the church. Most definitely the Church's loss and not his in my opinion.

Re: Gay Episcopal Bishop in the news-Interesting t

Excommunicated. That reminds me... if someone can answer that question, can you also tell me why the church decided that I was a ******* and excommunicated me when I was 6 years old just because my parents got a divorce?

Re: Gay Episcopal Bishop in the news-Interesting t

Ya know, I read many threads that I don't agree with or like so I stay out of the thread. If a group of folk were chatting I would be embarrassed when I interjected my comment and had the participants look at me and just turn back to their conversation as if I wasn't there.

I find this thread very interesting because of it's cataclysmic possibilities in the mainstream world. Episcopalians have a rep as a liberal sect and this may well put a pressure on them unheard of since Martin L split from Rome. Martin believed that he was fighting for Gospel and against Beaurocracy.
I have very mixed feelings on the whole topic of Gay rights. I think that this is more of the press to legitimize Homosexuality.
And I don't agree with the legit, it's mainstream society aspect, at all.
And I am a believer and am prone to enjoy Charismatic Services most of all. I don't think I've ever been to an Episcopalian service. I hear it's much like Catholic.

I love some sermons as they tend to elicit thinking and conversation. Others are boring.
This is not boring.
I wonder what the impetus is behind the push of this particular bishop to take over. Who's supporting this thru $ or promises. Politics are everywhere. Unfortunately much to the distress of the core beliefs of the group.
Tom
Whoops I'm about three posts behind.

Sasha, my folks were divorced and so am I. I'm about as liberal as they come but I wonder if the stigma of divorce was stronger, like when my folks were, would we have the divorce rate we have now?
Is there a cause and effect. As we make more things acceptable does this weaken the basis, or foundation, of society.
So many things that I don't understand!
Why bother?
We pass this way but once.
Though I was able to be divorced and not excommunicated because I had a cousin in the Church politico, a Monsignor,
There's politics to everything it seems /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Re: Gay Episcopal Bishop in the news-Interesting t

"I shall fear no evil, for lord is watching over me."

That is the only prayer I ever say. And only at work.

Re: Gay Episcopal Bishop in the news-Interesting t

Tom... from what I've been reading all day on other boards and in the news, they are kinda "stuck" now. From what I understand, no one knew what this guy's story was until just recently. I guess the feeling is that the church doesn't want to be made to look like a fool by withdrawing their support of this guy... it will mean that they screwed up and didn't check him out before supporting him.

Re: Gay Episcopal Bishop in the news-Interesting t

I am not aware of priests (bishops, preachers, whatever term you would use) not being able to marry according to the Bible. In the old testament, the Jewish high priest was able to marry, but she had to be a virgin, she could not be divorced. The new testament points to bishops (preacher, etc.) being able to marry. The apostle Paul wished that people could be like him, not having need of being married (I believe he had been married once), but it was better to marry rather than burn with passion, so as not to sin.

Sasha,

I do not know which church denomination you are referring to. I have seen nothing in the old or new testament that would indicate that you were a ******* at the age of 6 simply because your parents got a divorce. Your parents divorce was not up to you or your choice.

Re: Gay Episcopal Bishop in the news-Interesting t

It is a VERY sad story when this gets thru the vetting process.
I bet someone will pay a heavy price for this screw up.
And rightly so.
It's gotta take it's toll on the Episcopalian Church. More folk leaving it for other types.
The bottom line is
NO MONEY, NO MISSION!
Tom

NewsFlash
The Catholic Church determined that if Divorced then the divorced people were no longer recognized by the church.
If you are not recognized by the church, the marriage is essentially void because the marriage is not recognized.
If there is no marriage the offspring is therefore a *******.
I'm glad that my parents were divorced. My Steppie is a Wonderful man and I love him dearly.
I'm very pleased that I'm divorced because....
I'm saddened that my Mom and Dad and I had to experience the tragedy of divorce. because I envy people who have a partner for many years or all their life. Even if you're gay.

Re: Gay Episcopal Bishop in the news-Interesting t

NewsFlash... the Catholic Church. The good news was that my mom was offered a chance to buy her way and our way back in by giving a "donation" to the church. She told them to pound sand. I was raised in a Congregational church.