The eluding perfect flashlight... is custom the only answer?

DarkoMaledictus · Jun 9, 2010

I have been looking hard for the perfect flashlight for my needs and it has been a very hard journey. Everyled flashlight seems to have very good points and not so good ones. At this juncture I think the only solution is either custom or to unearth a flashlight I have never heard of.

Here are the essential specs I am looking for :

-Hi lumens output at least 800 torch lumens (not only on the emitter), so preferably SST-50 (or SST-90) I am guessing.
-Very hard build military type. Has to be able to withstand dirt, sand, shock resistant etc So no complicated mechanism to activate, press button should be all required.
-Coating must be Military specs so it doesn't scratch.
-Lense should be saphire or at the very least anti-shatter and anti-scratch.
-Ideally body should be titanium to preserve weight and make it very strong, same for bezel.
-Water proofing is required Ipx-8 or 66 feet underwater resistant.
-Modes required : low lumens setting (1-10 lumens), mid range (100-250 lumens), high max settings, strobe and sos would be nice.
-Battery : rechargeable 18650.
-Beam should be a good thrower but with ample spill for forest treks
-Size shouldn't too big but should be able to house 2 or 3 18650.
-Battery life : 1-2 hours hi mode, low mode should anywhere from 200 to 300 hours.
-Led should not shutdown or switch intensity because of heat like the Jet Beam M2S
-Weight should be under 500g

I have been looking at the following flashlights but they all are missing something :

-Ra clicky (too low lumens)
-Jet Beam Raptor 3 (close but rotry system is a sand trap and emitter shuts down if too hot)
-Olight SR90 (1.5kg really????? lol)
-Thrunite Catapult
-Jet Beam M1X

These are very close but still not 100% :
-Eagletac T20C2 mkii
-Fenix TK40
-TIABLO aceg mc-e
-WolfEye super storm
-Xtar D31 Howitzer (1.5kg really????? lol)

So is my only choice to go custom and if it is can you guys point me in the right direction? What kind of price do you guys think I would be looking at?

thanks

LED_Thrift · Jun 9, 2010

Welcome to CPF DarkoMaledictus.

Call Peak at 877-881-7325 (toll-free). Their website is not that informative, but they are great on the phone. One reason for this is that there are a lot of choices that can be made with each model if you wish. Runtime, brightness, tint and materials [hard-ano, brass, stainless, Ti] among others.

They have a model called the First Responder that may be just right, judging by your description.

waddup · Jun 9, 2010

one of the custom light builders here at cpf can build you that light.

jblackwood · Jun 9, 2010

Mil-spec anodizing isn't something you're going to be likely to find in a titanium light. Titanium WILL scratch but it's light and strong. If the finish is that important, it will take a MUCH harder beating and you can restore the finish to near-new. You can't do that with aluminum lights that are anodized. Cerakote might be another option, but i can't speak first hand about that since I don't have one.

I don't have any of the lights on your short list except for RAs. Have you looked into the Ra Twisty? You can get an 18650 body for it. The Ti models of those are gone, though. You can still get a Ti bezel for it, but it's really not necessary due to the recessed lens design (it's been tested for toughness, look around for pictures). The same can be said for the lens, sapphire is available but not necessary. Other than not being 800 lumens, which will be hard to achieve along with robust design from a custom maker (check into Milky, though), the RA may be your best bet. Remember, lumen ratings vary a lot between different brands. 4sevens, HDS/RA, and Surefire all give lower ratings than others for lights that often outshine those higher numbers from Fenix, Nitecore, and even Dereelight, just to name a few (though Jay, the US Dereelight distributor, gives better real-world numbers for those lights than the manufacturer does). But I digress.

A three level light that has Strobe and SOS hidden away is hard to achieve. The RA lights can all be programmed. The only other light I've heard whose UI is more malleable is liteflux, but I have none of those lights either.

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond · Jun 9, 2010

Here is a build I have which I believe meets many of your criteria:

- Surefire C2 HA flashlight.
- SST-50 P60 Drop-in (I got mine from supasizefries, but you could get a 4500k warm SST-50 using a 3 mode 2.8 amp shiningbeam driver from nailbender and it would be the same)
- Run on a single 17670 cell. (or send to Electron Guru for a 18650 boring, which is what I did, and then run on 18650 2.6Ah AW protected cell)
- Replace push-switch with a McClickie for single click action.

It is small, pocketable, Low = ~30 lumens w/ about 20-30 hours runtime, Med = ~100-150 lumens w/ about 4 hours runtime, High = 500+ lumens w/ about 1 hour runtime.
Heat = pretty managable - I can run it on high for 10-15 minutes at a clip and not get burnt.
Size - perfect
Runtime - great and you can easily carry another 2x18650 in a carrier.
Spot/Flood - big spot, great flood - I can light up a football field.
Waterproofing - not sure I don't go under water with my lights, but SF states "weatherproof O-ring seal".

DarkoMaledictus · Jun 9, 2010

Thank you for all you clever answers! And thanks for the welcome LED_Thrift

!

Will be checking all this great information when I wake up. Just finished a night shift so not the best of time to check this stuff up =)!

thank you again for all the digging

!

kengps · Jun 9, 2010

Oveready is out of stock right now.....but you could just order the whole package from them when they are available. I don't care for clips so I got the Z2 because it has a much better grip in my opinion. I ordered a Z2 in HA III, overbore 18mm, McClicky switch, UCL lens, SS blacked bezel ring. Not cheap....about $225, and you still need a drop-in. It's nice that Oveready will build it for you so you know it is assembled correctly. An SST-50 with a 2.8A driver will do about 750-800 OTE. The 2.8A drivers most use can be programmed to your liking. 2 mode (H/L), 3 mode, or 5-mode (Strobe, SOS added). I prefer 2 mode as it is never more than a quick push away from the mode you want. I never use mid-mode. It is tough as nails, and The HA III has ruined a couple of my Lathe bits already when I was modding one. It'll do everything you want but throw. It is a flood, and too small for a reflector large enough for throw. I think you need one of these for 90% of the time, and to always have on you. Get a thrower with an R2 for a throw light. You need to have two lights anyway as backup.
A cheaper alternative would be this light. About $65 shipped with code: cpfuser. Should throw a bit better than a P60 reflector, 800 Lumens OTE SST-50, and uses the same 2.8A driver as everybody else.

http://www.shiningbeam.com/servlet/the-136/**NEW**-MG-P-dsh-Rocket-SST-dsh-50/Detail

Darvis · Jun 9, 2010

Much like ShineOn and kengps (good advice from both!) I went the Oveready/Nailbender route for someting similar to what you're looking for. 6P in natural HA with a black bezel ring, bored for 1 18650, twisty option for reliability. My Nailbender is a regulated single mode SST-50 w/ an OP reflector for a smooth flood. To say it's devastating out to 25 yards is an understatement, the SST-50 drop-in has a MASSIVE hotspot and spill pattern. This kit was less than 200 total, extremely reasonable for a modded/custom light with it's level of output. I would also not hesitiate to recommend the Malkoff M-61 either, not quite the output you're looking for, but at ~250-300 lumens for the Malkoff and (probably ~450-500 at regulation for the SST-50), either light would be killer. Not to to mention about as compact as one can get.

My camping combo is a Ra Clicky for its practical selection of levels and build quality and the 6P with either the Nailbender or Malkoff for lighting up the camp if needed. I have to agree with Henry's (HDS/Ra) philosophy (amongst others) that ~40-50 lumens is bright enough for any but the most specialized tasks and helps keep the runtime loooooooong.

I've not yet played with an SR-90, but I do own an M1X and have to say that, although fun, and certainly a great, bright light, it's not something I would want to have to carry around for long. Nor do I find it practical for much (maybe if I lived on a farm and needed spot predators at night).

Best of luck on the hunt for what suits your needs, look forward to seeing what you ultimately settle on!

weklund · Jun 9, 2010

+1 for the C2 Setup. Mix a Surefire FM-14 Diffuser into the recipe and you will have yourself a very versatile and rock solid Semi-Thrower/Wall-0-Light lumen tool. Clip comes in real handy if you need to go hands free and you're wearing a baseball cap.

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:
Here is a build I have which I believe meets many of your criteria:

- Surefire C2 HA flashlight.
- SST-50 P60 Drop-in (I got mine from supasizefries, but you could get a 4500k warm SST-50 using a 3 mode 2.8 amp shiningbeam driver from nailbender and it would be the same)
- Run on a single 17670 cell. (or send to Electron Guru for a 18650 boring, which is what I did, and then run on 18650 2.6Ah AW protected cell)
- Replace push-switch with a McClickie for single click action.

It is small, pocketable, Low = ~30 lumens w/ about 20-30 hours runtime, Med = ~100-150 lumens w/ about 4 hours runtime, High = 500+ lumens w/ about 1 hour runtime.
Heat = pretty managable - I can run it on high for 10-15 minutes at a clip and not get burnt.
Size - perfect
Runtime - great and you can easily carry another 2x18650 in a carrier.
Spot/Flood - big spot, great flood - I can light up a football field.
Waterproofing - not sure I don't go under water with my lights, but SF states "weatherproof O-ring seal".

red02 · Jun 9, 2010

All of your criteria cannot be met. less than 40 minutes on high will fry the LED in a Ti light. Sapphire lens are naturally brittle and will shatter before glass will, they will still scratch since there are some things between hardness 9 - 10.

A jack of all traits is master of none. Get a Catapult/High Power light and a Photon Freedom; Best of both worlds. High output lights will rarely have a low, thats not what people buy them for.

jabe1 · Jun 9, 2010

LED_thrift is right... call Curt at Peak, and talk with him about what you're looking for.

DarkoMaledictus · Jun 9, 2010

kengps said:
Oveready is out of stock right now.....but you could just order the whole package from them when they are available. I don't care for clips so I got the Z2 because it has a much better grip in my opinion. I ordered a Z2 in HA III, overbore 18mm, McClicky switch, UCL lens, SS blacked bezel ring. Not cheap....about $225, and you still need a drop-in. It's nice that Oveready will build it for you so you know it is assembled correctly. An SST-50 with a 2.8A driver will do about 750-800 OTE. The 2.8A drivers most use can be programmed to your liking. 2 mode (H/L), 3 mode, or 5-mode (Strobe, SOS added). I prefer 2 mode as it is never more than a quick push away from the mode you want.

This seems exactly what I am looking for. I did a little searching and it seems it can be ordered from here :

http://www.oveready.com/surefire-ho...urefire-z2-bored-custom-ha-black/prod_22.html

there doesn't seem to be any selection for a SST-50 with a 2.8A, is this something that has to be requested by email or is there another portion of the site I haven't seen?

Edit: Seems its also possible to add an extender (A19 - Bored SureFire Extender Custom HA - Black) to enable an extra 18650. This is looking amazing

! Thank you very much for all the information!

DarkoMaledictus · Jun 9, 2010

Also is it worth it goig for 3000 Mah rather than the easy to find 2600 mah 18650 batteries? Also what is the better choice between 18500 and 18650 batteries

DarkoMaledictus · Jun 9, 2010

Did some more digging and found the nailbender dropins :

LUMINUS SST SERIES LEDS

Luminus SST-50 - $65 - 3.6 -6volts only
direct drive 1 - 3 or 5 levels only
Regulated -- 2 level --High - low /3 level -- high - low - strobe / 3 level -- high - med - low / 5 level -- high - med - low - strobe -SOS
6500K Cool White (W65S-GJ102-WJ-G3 )
4500K neutrals (W45S-GH400-WJ-N4)

DBS MODULES AVAILABLE ON REQUEST

Luminus SST -90 -$80 - 3.6 -6 volts only /1 - 3 or 5 Levels direct drive
6500K Cool White (W65S-GN100-WN-DE)
5700K neutral (W57S-GN200-WN-H4)
3000k warm 83CRI ( W30M-GK700-WK-U3 )
Green - Red - Blue $80

from

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/271519

What are the benefits of using sst-90? Can it still be used on a SF custom body and will it use less or more power for the same kind of light. I imagine it is restricted by heat dissipation and power, but is it a good idea to use on an sf body rather than an sst-50? For a survival light what would you pick to go in a? (k rating included)?

Noctis · Jun 9, 2010

DarkoMaledictus said:
I have been looking hard for the perfect flashlight for my needs and it has been a very hard journey. Everyled flashlight seems to have very good points and not so good ones. At this juncture I think the only solution is either custom or to unearth a flashlight I have never heard of.

Here are the essential specs I am looking for :

-Hi lumens output at least 800 torch lumens (not only on the emitter), so preferably SST-50 (or SST-90) I am guessing.
-Very hard build military type. Has to be able to withstand dirt, sand, shock resistant etc So no complicated mechanism to activate, press button should be all required.
-Coating must be Military specs so it doesn't scratch.
-Lense should be saphire or at the very least anti-shatter and anti-scratch.
-Ideally body should be titanium to preserve weight and make it very strong, same for bezel.
-Water proofing is required Ipx-8 or 66 feet underwater resistant.
-Modes required : low lumens setting (1-10 lumens), mid range (100-250 lumens), high max settings, strobe and sos would be nice.
-Battery : rechargeable 18650.
-Beam should be a good thrower but with ample spill for forest treks
-Size shouldn't too big but should be able to house 2 or 3 18650.
-Battery life : 1-2 hours hi mode, low mode should anywhere from 200 to 300 hours.
-Led should not shutdown or switch intensity because of heat like the Jet Beam M2S
-Weight should be under 500g

I have been looking at the following flashlights but they all are missing something :

-Ra clicky (too low lumens)
-Jet Beam Raptor 3 (close but rotry system is a sand trap and emitter shuts down if too hot)
-Olight SR90 (1.5kg really????? lol)
-Thrunite Catapult
-Jet Beam M1X

These are very close but still not 100% :
-Eagletac T20C2 mkii
-Fenix TK40
-TIABLO aceg mc-e
-WolfEye super storm
-Xtar D31 Howitzer (1.5kg really????? lol)

So is my only choice to go custom and if it is can you guys point me in the right direction? What kind of price do you guys think I would be looking at?

thanks

You could get a HA body from the Overready site. Depending on how dead set you are on having 800(I assume OTF) lumens, you'll have to go custom.

You can't have both an 800 lumen output and still have 1-2 hours of runtime on high, even a multi XP-G light won't give you that, not on an 18650 battery. You could go for a longer body and maybe go with 2x18650s.

I imagine you'd be running it for long periods on high, so I would suggest an SST-50 emitter on a copper heatsink with 3 modes.

Unless your lens is made of pure diamond, that's simply too much to expect from the lens. I would just suggest getting the UCL lens which should be easily replacable, and maybe throw on a crenellated bezel to protect the lens.

Titanium is a poor choice of material in a high powered light. It simply doesn't handle heat as well as aluminum.

Custom made, I expect it would cost you about $350+ total, and would take 2-3 months to construct, depending on who makes it for you and how busy said person is with other projects.

Noctis · Jun 9, 2010

DarkoMaledictus said:
Did some more digging and found the nailbender dropins :

LUMINUS SST SERIES LEDS

Luminus SST-50 - $65 - 3.6 -6volts only
direct drive 1 - 3 or 5 levels only
Regulated -- 2 level --High - low /3 level -- high - low - strobe / 3 level -- high - med - low / 5 level -- high - med - low - strobe -SOS
6500K Cool White (W65S-GJ102-WJ-G3 )
4500K neutrals (W45S-GH400-WJ-N4)

DBS MODULES AVAILABLE ON REQUEST

Luminus SST -90 -$80 - 3.6 -6 volts only /1 - 3 or 5 Levels direct drive
6500K Cool White (W65S-GN100-WN-DE)
5700K neutral (W57S-GN200-WN-H4)
3000k warm 83CRI ( W30M-GK700-WK-U3 )
Green - Red - Blue $80

from

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/271519

What are the benefits of using sst-90? Can it still be used on a SF custom body and will it use less or more power for the same kind of light. I imagine it is restricted by heat dissipation and power, but is it a good idea to use on an sf body rather than an sst-50?

An SST-90 gives 650 lumens compared to the SST-50 which gives 550 lumens at the same output.

The SST-90 is a bit more powerful, but it's more of a flood light. The SST-50 throws farther. I'm not entirely sure, but I believe the 90 also generates more heat at the same current.

Heat should be fine in a Surefire host for about 5-10 minutes on high with a regulated module.

However, I feel that the SST series would perform much better if mounted on a copper slug rather than a hollow pill. Once it gets hot, the lumens will drop from the heat.

If you want throw, the 50 is the way to go. Personally, I feel the 90 throws far enough for my needs.

kito109654 · Jun 9, 2010

DarkoMaledictus said:
Did some more digging and found the nailbender dropins :

LUMINUS SST SERIES LEDS

Luminus SST-50 - $65 - 3.6 -6volts only
direct drive 1 - 3 or 5 levels only
Regulated -- 2 level --High - low /3 level -- high - low - strobe / 3 level -- high - med - low / 5 level -- high - med - low - strobe -SOS
6500K Cool White (W65S-GJ102-WJ-G3 )
4500K neutrals (W45S-GH400-WJ-N4)

DBS MODULES AVAILABLE ON REQUEST

Luminus SST -90 -$80 - 3.6 -6 volts only /1 - 3 or 5 Levels direct drive
6500K Cool White (W65S-GN100-WN-DE)
5700K neutral (W57S-GN200-WN-H4)
3000k warm 83CRI ( W30M-GK700-WK-U3 )
Green - Red - Blue $80

from

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/271519

What are the benefits of using sst-90? Can it still be used on a SF custom body and will it use less or more power for the same kind of light. I imagine it is restricted by heat dissipation and power, but is it a good idea to use on an sf body rather than an sst-50?

Nice, you've found what I'm in the middle of. I haven't picked a model yet but I'm getting an overready 18mm bored custom HA light. I can't decide between C or P series. Anyways, I went with the SST-90 because I want a wall of light, in 3000K because I like warm tints. If you want most total output in a wall of light, get the 6500K SST-90 with 1 mode 2.8A driver with thermal potting for durability and heatsinking. If you want more throw then go with the SST-50 1 mode 2.8A potted.

Edit: Noctis, you beat me to it.

kito109654 · Jun 9, 2010

DarkoMaledictus said:
Hi,

i was looking for a new module and was wondering if the SST-90 will work with a Surefire Z2 chassis and also what are the 5 modes of the sst driver? Low, med, high, strobe and SOS?

It'll work. Did you notice that Overready.com is out of stock of the Z2's though?

fyrstormer · Jun 9, 2010

Unfortunately, even custom isn't the answer -- because as soon as you use one well-made light, and you come to understand its strengths and weaknesses, you'll want another well-made light that is useful when your first light isn't. And then maybe a third as a just-in-case backup light. And by then you'll probably learn to appreciate the aesthetics of your lights, and another one will catch your eye, and you'll buy that one just because it's pretty. And at that point, it's all over for you. :devil:

weklund · Jun 9, 2010

Like I said the C2 is the way to go ... :devil:

fyrstormer said:
Unfortunately, even custom isn't the answer -- because as soon as you use one well-made light, and you come to understand its strengths and weaknesses, you'll want another well-made light that is useful when your first light isn't. And then maybe a third as a just-in-case backup light. And by then you'll probably learn to appreciate the aesthetics of your lights, and another one will catch your eye, and you'll buy that one just because it's pretty. And at that point, it's all over for you. :devil:

The eluding perfect flashlight... is custom the only answer?

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