"SureFire L4 only a toy"-RETRACTED! My apologies

\"SureFire L4 only a toy\"-RETRACTED! My apologies

See my apology below! Sorry everyone for being so hot-headed

****

Well, another edit. See new thread "IS the L4 too hot to hold?"

**********

Below is my original post, which no longer applies, as I
was working from incorrect information from a previous
thread "L4 Liquid cooling?" or something like that. My
appologies to all you L4 owners, and thanks for setting me
straight.

**************

Sorry to have to throw down the gauntlet on this one, but
after reading about the heating issue of the L4, I can't
help but come to the conclusion that it's only a toy and
not a serious flashlight or a good EDC and thus only useful
as a novelty item.

OK. I will grant that it is very well made and bright
at a constant level and that the light it gives is a nice
color, and of course LEDs don't break or need replacing.
BUT it seems to me that only being able to use a light for
20 to 30 minutes is a SERIOUS drawback in an EDC. What
happens in those situations where you need it for longer?
And if you can't think of any such situation that's likely
to happen to you then you probably don't have any business
owning a $150 EDC flashlight. For that money give me a D3
or an M3 anyday, assuming that you actually NEED that much
brightness and if not, give me an Arc LS or AAA.

I mean, if it's just a situation where you like to sleep
with your flashlight by your pilow and admire it and shine
it up at the ceiling every now and then. or where you like
to impress passersby with your HIGH TECH LED light, then
yeah OK, go ahead and waste your money on a poorly designed
and impractical light. But if, like me, you actually NEED
a flashlight and also appreciate having an EDC, then the
Arc LS or SureFire E2 is for you.

If I'm all wrong here, then will someone PLEASE explain it
to me? WHAT is the deal with an EDC that can only be used
for 20-30 minutes? Do all of you L4 owners just fail to
imagine a situation where you will need it for that long?
Personally, even aside from my work, I can think of half a
dozen scenarious. Not very likely, to be sure, but far from
impossible.

Wait! I have it! Just carry a Nalgene bottle full of water
with you where ever you go!

Re: SureFire L4 only a toy

js,
The point of the L4 is a small light that is very bright for when you need to light up an area. You can have your ARC LS-P for "normal" usage. That is how I see the position of the L4.

Re: SureFire L4 only a toy

Wouldn't an E2 do that, and better in some ways, while at
the same time remaining viable for a longer run situation?

Re: SureFire L4 only a toy

Welcome JS,

I find your post a bit on the offensive as you have indicated it is. I think everyone has their own idea of what an EDC is and I don't think I have ever seen SF refer to EDC!!! I think that this distinction is a CPF convention?!?

Anyway,
By your defniition any of SF's lights with HOLA's are ony a toy and not any good for EDC. Bummer. Better let SF know about this! Oh and as far as run time goes, perhaps in the unlikely event that you *need* a light for long burn time, what if you need it for 2 or 3 hours and your EDC is only good for 1 hour? Dang! it must be a toy.

I see the L$ as a well built and efficient illumination tool which has it's place and serves well in proper applications.

I recall a DR friend saying there was a quote among surgeons that if all you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail. Different tools for different jobs. A philips #3 sucks on slot screws.

- Don

Re: SureFire L4 only a toy

I think if you need more than 30 min. of light for EDC, a 123 light is not the way to go. Combined with the battery life and the heat, they are just not designed for continued usage. But most people have no need to carry a light that can run for more than 20 min at a time. If you do, I'd suggest you carry an Arc AAA. The question is, why do YOU need something that bright for that long?

By the way, I don't think an E2e can run for 30 min either...

Re: SureFire L4 only a toy

js, you're way off base on this one. Although the L4 is my EDC, it's not my "run it constant on for a long time" light. It's used for those times when a small, compact, very bright utility light is needed. As BentHead said, I'd use the LSH-P or McLux for those applications where I need a couple hours worth of light.

Re: SureFire L4 only a toy

I bought the L4 for one reason: to supplement whatever lightweight LED light I carry into the backcountry. I use it for only seconds at a time (love that tailswitch) to routefind when the LED doesn't cut it. For this purpose, it is ideal - esp. when fitted with the PILA Li-Ion battery. Bright, easy to "flash" with the tail switch, always ready to go, no bulb burnout in the backcountry. Perfect.

Re: SureFire L4 only a toy

OK. Sorry if my post was too offensive, but look, tell me
your definition of an EDC and tell me how the L4 fills it
best. I can't actually think of one where some other light
wouldn't work better. Many of the SF lights only have a
20 min run time, yes, but they're REALLY bright for those
20 min and would be used by law enforcement or military and
certainly WOULD NOT be an EDC by anyone's definition.

But, I think an hour or 75 min is a different story. At
that point the number of possbile scenarious drops
significantly. That's a good long time. 20 min is not.

Re: SureFire L4 only a toy

I DON't need a light that bright, in response to the above.

and the E2e has a runtime of 75 min.

Re: SureFire L4 only a toy

I EDC an ARC LSH-P, an ARC-AAA and a SureFire L4. The LSH gets most of the work. The AAA is mostly a backup light or if I need something which isn't too bright, but enough to read by. The L4 is used when I need light up a bigger area or need brighter light.

Re: SureFire L4 only a toy

WOW!

You EDC THREE lights! Man that is hardcore (but awesome)
my hat is off to you.

Re: SureFire L4 only a toy

Err...you and I are talking about two different things. I'm talking about heat, you're talking about runtime. But you were talking about heat. The L4 has a runtime of about 65 min, the E2e 75 minutes. As for heat, both of them are much less than that. I was saying the E2e probably can't survive a continuous on for 30 min (heat-wise), similar to the L4. But again, WHY do you need a 65 lumen light for 30 minutes continuously?

Re: SureFire L4 only a toy

[ QUOTE ]
hawkhkg11 said:
Err...you and I are talking about two different things. I'm talking about heat, you're talking about runtime. But you were talking about heat. The L4 has a runtime of about 65 min, the E2e 75 minutes. As for heat, both of them are much less than that. I was saying the E2e probably can't survive a continuous on for 30 min (heat-wise), similar to the L4.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure where you're getting these facts from. Both the L4 and E2E function fine left constant on for the life of the cells. Yes, they both get hot, however they both work flawlessly leaving them on for that 65 and 75 minutes or until the cells are exhausted.

Re: SureFire L4 only a toy *DELETED*

Post deleted by brightnorm

Re: SureFire L4 only a toy

hawkhkg11,

You're kidding me! I had no idea. Why? What happens? It
can't possibly get too hot to hold also, can it? An incand.
forward radiates most of it's lost power. I figured it
got warm but I was sure it could last the full 75 min.

Thanks for telling me that. I was thinking of buying one
at some point. I'll just stick with my Arc LS. That can
stay on continuously, although it does get warm.

Re: SureFire L4 only a toy

[ QUOTE ]
hawkhkg11 said:


By the way, I don't think an E2e can run for 30 min either...

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure it can,
E2e/MN03 75 min/60 lums
E2e/MN02 2.5 hours/25 lums
E2e+KL1 4.0 hours/17 lums

Re: SureFire L4 only a toy

Okay, I suppose I was making a bad assumption, but it wouldn't be very good to the bulb or the LED if you left it on for 30 min would it?

But then again, since you are right Nascar, exactly. What is js lamenting about then?

Re: SureFire L4 only a toy

OK. Perhaps I'm mistaken. I was getting my info from CPF
threads about the L4. I think it was "L4 Liquid cooling?"
where the person said that he simply could not hold onto
his L4 for the full battery discharge. Can anybody clear
this up? Is the L4 too hot to hold?

Re: SureFire L4 only a toy

I have three points -

Firstly, an EDC flashlight is not a dutylight and therefore to me indicates the aim of an EDC flashlight is not to provide long runtimes of constant-on as it's function, rather to give you the ability to have a light source on you if/when you should need it.
If you need constant-on runtimes for your job then I believe you need a rechargeable flashlight in addition to your EDC.

Secondly, SureFire's are small, and bright - they get hot when used constant-on - The typical "EDC" models do especially; the E2e does; the A2 does.
SureFires in general are not designed, nor intended for constant-on use - although they can be, it is not their function.
If you are concerned about getting hurt by holding the L4 constant-on, then why not the A2 or E2e? - both get very hot.

Thirdly, during my evaluation of the L4 prior to it's release I, for reasons I won't go into, had to put several sets of SF123A's through the L4 one after the other and run the L4 constant-on each time. Even during this, I could still hold the L4 - not around the bezel - but then I wouldn't anyway. The heat was not painful for me. I found my hand hurt after using the Brinkmann LX and ASP Taclite significantly more (ergonomics, not thermal). In all my use of the L4 I've never once thought - this is hurting me. I wish it didn't get so hot.

I totally disagree that the effective runtime of the L4 is 20-30 minutes constant-on.
I don't believe my hands are that much less sensitive to heat than everyone else's.

I totally disagree that the L4 is a waste of money as EDC.
CPF members have voted the L4 as their favourite SureFire for a start. It is intended for EDC. A role I believe it excels at.

I totally disagree that the L4 is poorly designed.
The very fact that it gets hot means that the heat is being managed. Within the tiny form-factor of the L4 (KL4), I very much doubt the design can be improved on significantly

I totally disagree that the L4 is impractical.
To have such a bright white light from an EDC flashlight of such small size makes it very practical as an EDC.

There are plenty of flashlights that remain cool or relatively cool during constant-on. If your requirements are for this then perhaps it would be more constructive to read your review of the different options that are more suited to your requirements then to post about how light you don't even have isn't suitable for you?

I personally have experienced the L4 as my EDC for sometime and put many SF123A's through it. It is the most practical, worthwhile investment in terms of flashlights for EDC that I believe exists at the moment.

Respectfully,

Al

Re: SureFire L4 only a toy

Yes, the great AL has arrived! Now Al has corrected me and answered everyone's questions. I shall go away now...