XR-E versus MC-E

I am confused. I got a Fenix TA21 with a Cree XR-E (Q5). which claims that its highest output is 225 lumens. I also have a MC-E (milkymod) SureFire Backup, that was estimated to be ~650 lumens.

The ceiling bounce test, the XR-E blows away the MC-E. I had to use the ceiling bounce because the hotspot on the XR-E is so much tighter than the MC-E.

I am curious if anyone knows what is going on?

Oh, I bought the TA21 with the idea of having it modded to take a MC-E to increase the brightness. Hence my dazed and confused posting. :thinking:

I am using IMR123 in the Backup and 18650 plain in the TA21.

Flashlight Aficionado said:

I am confused. I got a Fenix TA21 with a Cree XR-E (Q5). which claims that its highest output is 225 lumens. I also have a MC-E (milkymod) SureFire Backup, that was estimated to be ~650 lumens.

The ceiling bounce test, the XR-E blows away the MC-E. I had to use the ceiling bounce because the hotspot on the XR-E is so much tighter than the MC-E.

I am curious if anyone knows what is going on?

Oh, I bought the TA21 with the idea of having it modded to take a MC-E to increase the brightness. Hence my dazed and confused posting. :thinking:

I am using IMR123 in the Backup and 18650 plain in the TA21.

Click to expand...

sorry but you cannot power the MC-E with only 123 cell. This is rediculus and even 650 lumens.

I think MC-E needs more power. 3.7 V is not enough. Probalbly you get about 200 lumens no more than that.

You need about 9-12 V to reach 700 lumens with the MC-E

MR.A said:

sorry but you cannot power the MC-E with only 123 cell. This is rediculus and even 650 lumens.

I think MC-E needs more power. 3.7 V is not enough. Probalbly you get about 200 lumens no more than that.

You need about 9-12 V to reach 700 lumens with the MC-E

Click to expand...

Huh, really?:huh:
Nailbender offers a Cree MC-E with an input voltage of 3.6V-6V.

I would ask Milkyspit about that. I doubt the guy would mod a light and claim 650 lumens if it couldn't put out that much light.

Perhaps you could double-check that the batteries are fully charged and post some beamshots of the ceiling bounce.

I believe the MC-E is rated at around 3.4-3.5V per die. There's 4 dies, which puts it at a requirement of 13.6V - 14V. So you're probably going to want to run that with a 14.4-14.8V battery and have it regulated.

Noctis: Perhaps the Nailbender has the dies wired in parallel? This would allow it to work with a lower voltage, but I would worry about the current draw, since it's 350mA per die X 4 = 1.4 amps. I'm not sure what 123 batteries are rated for, but at the very least it will drain quickly

Noctis - Tonight I will take some ceiling bounce comparison shots and post them.
Battery fully charged - ✔

I thought about bugging milky, but I bugged him twice in the last two weeks.

Oh, here is the statistics for the IMR battery I am using, that milky said I HAVE TO USE. Regular cr123 or RCR123 would be fried by the current drain.

IMR16340 (RCR123) Specifications :

Nominal Voltage : 3.7V
Capacity : 550mAH
Lowest Discharge Voltage : 2.50V
Standard Charge : CC/CV ( max. charging rate 1.5A )
Cycle Life : > 500 cycles
Max. continuous discharge rate : 8C
Operating Discharge Temperature : -10 - 60 Degree Celsius

Could someone mod one of those used Makita 14.4v rechargable flashlights with an MCE?

What's the input voltage range of the MC-E light?

The Roomsweeper is direct drive. It requires, as Milky said, an IMR 16340 to safely handle the current draw.

MR.A, you are wrong on this... It requires only a 3.7v Li-ion source (4.2v fully charged).

My only explanation is that the battery was not fully charged during the test.

Flashlight Aficionado said:

I am confused. I got a Fenix TA21 with a Cree XR-E (Q5). which claims that its highest output is 225 lumens. I also have a MC-E (milkymod) SureFire Backup, that was estimated to be ~650 lumens.

The ceiling bounce test, the XR-E blows away the MC-E. I had to use the ceiling bounce because the hotspot on the XR-E is so much tighter than the MC-E.

Click to expand...

The ceiling bounce is not the most exact method for measuring output, especially when there are big differences in beam profile.

But you might also have a problem getting the MC-E to full power. A 16340 battery is a very small size to run it from, the IMR cell can supply enough current, but it might have a problem keeping the voltage high enough. Another problem might be bad connections/high resistance in the battery connection, the tail switch or the head.

John_Galt said:

The Roomsweeper is direct drive. It requires, as Milky said, an IMR 16340 to safely handle the current draw.

MR.A, you are wrong on this... It requires only a 3.7v Li-ion source (4.2v fully charged).

My only explanation is that the battery was not fully charged during the test.

Click to expand...

Ah, so it is running them parallel then. From what I gather most are run in series, which makes very little sense to me. It would be very hard on the batteries to draw so much current. I can see why he's particular about the battery used.

John_Galt said:

The Roomsweeper is direct drive. It requires, as Milky said, an IMR 16340 to safely handle the current draw.

MR.A, you are wrong on this... It requires only a 3.7v Li-ion source (4.2v fully charged).

My only explanation is that the battery was not fully charged during the test.

Click to expand...

Mr. John Galt you mean that with 3,7V MC-E can have 650 lumens output?

I'm not very confortable with Voltage and current.Could you explain please according to MC-E's specs?

mrcandyman said:

Ah, so it is running them parallel then. From what I gather most are run in series, which makes very little sense to me. It would be very hard on the batteries to draw so much current. I can see why he's particular about the battery used.

Click to expand...

Most MC-E's in flashlights are used with the four dies in parallel.

MR.A said:

Mr. John Galt you mean that with 3,7V MC-E can have 650 lumens output?

I'm not very confortable with Voltage and current.Could you explain please according to MC-E's specs?

Click to expand...

With all four in series you only need the voltage for one, but the current for four. I.e. around 2.8 amps at around 3.5 volt

With two in series, two in parallel, you get: 1.4 amp and 7 volt

With all in series it is 0.7 amp and 14 volt

The voltages are not exact, but will vary depending on the actual MC-E.

Ceiling Bounce Beamshots

Control


Backup Milkymod MC-E (unedited)


Backup Milkymod MC-E (edited Photoshop Brighten/Contrast brightened +150)


Fenix TA21 XR-E


I did not re-clean the contacts on the Backup. About a year ago, I got DeoxIT red and gold. I cleaned them and the batteries thoroughly then. I just make sure I never touch the metal contacts of the light or the battery. The IMR16340 (123) After the beamshot test was measured at 4.11

MR.A said:

sorry but you cannot power the MC-E with only 123 cell. This is rediculus and even 650 lumens.

I think MC-E needs more power. 3.7 V is not enough. Probalbly you get about 200 lumens no more than that.

You need about 9-12 V to reach 700 lumens with the MC-E

Click to expand...

the first statement *might* be correct (disproven with IMR cells), but the last 2 statements are incorrect if you're referring to only the led. now if we were talking about specific dropins, sure, but not emitter wise.

the cree MC-E LED itself has a forward voltage of ~3.5V at 2.8 amps. (all parallel)

the problem of a small battery is that the voltage will drop under high loads (drawing lots of amps) and will not be able to power the led correctly.
as an except IMR cells hold exceptional voltage even under high loads -- perhaps even at a high enough voltage to run the mc-e at spec.. which should be very bright.

there is something odd going on in this case.

I would try to contact Scott about it, maybe even send the light back to him.

Sounds like something very weird is going on.

My SST-90 Direct Drive will put out about 780 OTF lumens and it easily lights up my entire room with a bluish white light.

Thanks, I will contact Milky. I was just hoping that I misunderstood something. I hate bothering him, 'cause he has been so nice and I didn't want to take advantage o f his kindness . . . again.

I am a complete idiot. While looking for Milky's address I found my last E-Mail from him. My settings had been screwed up (by me) and I asked how to reset them. I didn't bother to do part two of his instructions. Forty clicks to get out of miser mode.


Now it blows away the TA21 with the XR-E. The world is right again.

Thanks for all the help and sorry for the wild goose chase :duck:

I'm glad you got it all figured out!

What is your tailcap current?

With a single IMR 16340 the MC-E will vary from 2A to 3.5A, but the later would be needed for the 600 plus lumens.

I tested a similar KL4 by Darkzero, but it had a DD P7 and at 2.5A it got stupid hot and pulled 480ish OTF lumens.

IMR - make sure its fully charged ... [ 4.2v ]

Check the current draw ...
But what ever it is , the IMR simply will not last very long , good for back up .
I cant vouch for capacity , but @ claimed 500mA , and 2A current , your looking at 15 minutes , but as the battery depletes so will output , you may get bling for 5 minutes , i dont know .

I ran a MC-E with a RCR123A , current was about 1.6A up to 2A with a better cell , you will be straining the little 123's .