Why no love for 64432?

I've decided that my 3x18650 WA1185 KT1 Leef isn't showy enough for me anymore and have decided to bulb something with a super bulb. I was thinking along the lines of an IMR26500 Mag with either a Throwmaster or FM3-H head. After browsing LuxLuthor's charts, the Osram 64432 seems to be great on paper. If I drove it with six cells for 22.2 volts, I could get an insaine 7,000+ lumens at a reasonable 4.6 amp pull.

This seems like an outstanding high powered, low draw bulb. How come more people haven't gone this route? Also, which of two FiveMega heads would be best? I'm looking to light things up at insaine distances and to make people go when I turn it on. I can still remember last year when I went camping with a group and a guy there thought his stock 6D mag was something special. Then I brought out my WA1185 M6. :laughing:

Just bought the last black FM3H-3 head. So that settles that question.

At least based on Lux Luthor's destructive incan data, you aren't going to get anywhere near 7000 lumens when driving a 64432 at 22.2V. Lux's table estimates 3400-3800 lumens.

You can get more lumens, less heat, and longer filament life with a 64440 IRC driven at 18.5V.

I've gotten good results using a Throwmaster with the 64440 IRC. I would imagine that the FM3 reflector would throw even better.

Ah, I see my error. I should have looked at the predicted lumens fron lux column. I'm reading about 5k lumens from that column though.:thinking:

The 64432 at 22.2 and 64440 or 64447 at 18.5 look like great options.

Justin Case said:

At least based on Lux Luthor's destructive incan data, you aren't going to get anywhere near 7000 lumens when driving a 64432 at 22.2V. Lux's table estimates 3400-3800 lumens.

You can get more lumens, less heat, and longer filament life with a 64440 IRC driven at 18.5V.

Click to expand...

One of us is reading the charts wrong. From what I'm seeing @ 22.2v the 64432 is @ 91 watts and predicted to be 5125 lumens while the 64440 @ 18.5v is 98 watts and 3776 lumens.

I love the 432. I've actually used it for decent amounts of time without feeling like its going to burst into flames. I've only run it on five cells though. I'm not sure the bulb will hold up with that much voltage (from 26500s). I was thinking the other day about a 2D with a 6AA>2D adapter filled with IMR 14500s running a 64432. Not very useful, but it sure would be neat!.

mitro said:

One of us is reading the charts wrong. From what I'm seeing @ 22.2v the 64432 is @ 91 watts and predicted to be 5125 lumens while the 64440 @ 18.5v is 98 watts and 3776 lumens.

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At 18.5V, the 64440 IRC predicted lumens from measured lux is 4010. The 3776 figure is for 18.0V.

The power is 94.35W. Your 98W figure is if you use the predicted current draw figure, which doesn't make sense to me since there is an actual current draw data point.

The lumens discrepancy is because I was using an older 64432 chart. It appears that Lux revised the calculations, based on mdocod's observation here.

So the end result is:

64432 IRC, 22.2V, 4.60A, 102W, 5125 predicted lumens, 162F, 2.5 hr
64440 IRC, 18.5V, 5.10A, 94W, 4010 predicted lumens, 130F, 22 hr

If you drove the 64440 IRC at 19.5V, 5.30A (103W), the predicted lumens is 4544 (about 10% less than the 64432 IRC), but with cooler running and longer filament life vs the 64432. The problem with this is how to get to 19.5V. If you have a JimmyM regulator, it can be done using 6xIMR26500. But in direct drive, it looks tough to accomplish.

Yup, I screwed up...in two ways no less. Wrong column on both and wrong row on one account.

Justin Case said:

At least based on Lux Luthor's destructive incan data, you aren't going to get anywhere near 7000 lumens when driving a 64432 at 22.2V. Lux's table estimates 3400-3800 lumens.

You can get more lumens, less heat, and longer filament life with a 64440 IRC driven at 18.5V.

I've gotten good results using a Throwmaster with the 64440 IRC. I would imagine that the FM3 reflector would throw even better.

Click to expand...

+1, the axial filament in a throwmaster or FM3 has a beautiful round hotspot that will throw a long way! I normally start my 440 up around 21v, great bulb that doesnt pull your batteries down to quickly, I would recommend it over the 432.

mrartillery said:

+1, the axial filament in a throwmaster or FM3 has a beautiful round hotspot that will throw a long way! I normally start my 440 up around 21v, great bulb that doesnt pull your batteries down to quickly, I would recommend it over the 432.

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I've heard alot about that axial filament. I'm leaning towards 5 IMR 26500 in a 4D Mag body with a 64440 bulb. This will leave me with the option of using a 458 for fire starting showmanship if I so desire, yet give me something that's still reasonable in length. Looks like 5 26500 cells are only 4mm longer then 4 D cells.

Now I gotta learn about a switch/bulb holder setup. AW is out of incan drivers unfortunately. I'm thinking of using a KIU bulb holder. Is there anything else that needs to be done with the switch? I'll probably use a 440 the majority of the time with a 458 every now and then for fun.

Another vote for the Osram 64458 and 64440 IRC combo. I think this is a great HOLA and LOLA setup for a 5 IMR setup.

ellum68 said:

Is there anything else that needs to be done with the switch? I'll probably use a 440 the majority of the time with a 458 every now and then for fun.

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The stock M@g switch cannot handle the 9+ amps that the 64458 will pull from the IMR cells. You'll need to upgrade to a 10A Judco switch. These can be retrofitted into the stock M@g switch housing. On the 64440 IRC, the stock switch may or may not be ok with the approximate 5 amp draw.

ellum68 said:

I've heard alot about that axial filament. I'm leaning towards 5 IMR 26500 in a 4D Mag body with a 64440 bulb. This will leave me with the option of using a 458 for fire starting showmanship if I so desire, yet give me something that's still reasonable in length. Looks like 5 26500 cells are only 4mm longer then 4 D cells.

Now I gotta learn about a switch/bulb holder setup. AW is out of incan drivers unfortunately. I'm thinking of using a KIU bulb holder. Is there anything else that needs to be done with the switch? I'll probably use a 440 the majority of the time with a 458 every now and then for fun.

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Yes, this is the same setup Im currently using, you can also use a 64447. The 458 powers up nicely on the Li-ions, I have a 458 running on 16 Elite's but I prefer the IMR's. I like having the ability to change 3 different bulbs out and still use the same host. If you do decide to use the 458 you will need to upgrade your switch, because overdriven the 458 will be about 212 watts and 10amps, way to much for the factory clicky. You have several options, get on the waiting list for a Alan B, use a Jimmy M mosfet type driver, use one of AW's soft start or you can try your hand at the rocker switch upgrade (check my sigline) this is what I use for all my high amperage hotwires.

The FM Throwmaster will throw better than the FM3X heads. FM posted somewhere a while ago that the throwmaster (and the 2" deep reflector) has a deeper perabola than the FM3X and will produce a tighter beam.

Cheers,
Nova

^^Nova^^ said:

The FM Throwmaster will throw better than the FM3X heads. FM posted somewhere a while ago that the throwmaster (and the 2" deep reflector) has a deeper perabola than the FM3X and will produce a tighter beam.

Cheers,
Nova

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I don't believe the deep reflector will clear the larger Osram bulbs. I had a hunch the throwmaster would might send a beam out further. However, FiveMega only has chrome left. I think FM3H-3 will still put on a heck of a show and the extra cooling provided by the deep fins is always a plus.

mrartillery said:

Yes, this is the same setup Im currently using, you can also use a 64447. The 458 powers up nicely on the Li-ions, I have a 458 running on 16 Elite's but I prefer the IMR's. I like having the ability to change 3 different bulbs out and still use the same host. If you do decide to use the 458 you will need to upgrade your switch, because overdriven the 458 will be about 212 watts and 10amps, way to much for the factory clicky. You have several options, get on the waiting list for a Alan B, use a Jimmy M mosfet type driver, use one of AW's soft start or you can try your hand at the rocker switch upgrade (check my sigline) this is what I use for all my high amperage hotwires.

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Thanks mrartillery! I just got back from Home Depot. I now have a black 4D Mag and 2' of 1" PVC water pipe next to me. Me thinks this will be the brighest non-lantern flashlight in our entire little town.

I run a 64440 IRC bulb at 18.0V regulated by a JimmyM driver board. It is very bright but not quite as white as my regulated 64623 at 15.5V. Both lights use 5xIMR26500 in a 4D Mag. That is a very nice size and the Li-ion cells make for a surprisingly lightweight flashlight.

For both, I also use an FM Throwmaster. The Throwmaster produces a very nice beam with the 64440's axial filament. There is slightly more "structure" to the 64623 beam, probably because that bulb has a very large filament that's hard to deal with.

The FM Ver2 Deep Reflector's 8.3mm diam opening is too small to fit these Osram super bulbs. It is more suited to the Welch-Allyn bulbs.

The Throwmaster reflector does increase the overall length of the Mag by a fair amount, as well as making the light more head-heavy. This photo shows a comparison of the FM Throwmaster, FM Ver2 Deep Mag Reflector, and stock Mag head:


The Ver2 Deep Mag Reflector is about 2cm longer than stock. The Throwmaster is about 4cm longer than stock.

Justin Case said:

The problem with this is how to get to 19.5V. If you have a JimmyM regulator, it can be done using 6xIMR26500. But in direct drive, it looks tough to accomplish.

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Why not an FM 16AA-->4D battery holder using Elite 1700 AA cells in a bored 4D Mag body? Seems like this would be a worthy combination for either the 64432 or the 64440. Runtime would be on the short side at around 18-22 minutes, but a relatively easy setup that could be charged in the battery holder without the need to remove the cells from the light.

Cheers,
BG