Funding a niece and nephew through college - help?

I don't know where to start with this. I really didn't want to post this here as this is a family matter, but, I'm getting to the point where my head is about to explode and I cannot think clearly anymore.

My brother passed away last week and that leaves my niece and nephew with very little options for their future. My niece is a very bright young woman who graduated near the top of her class and had received a full scholarship to attend the University of Chicago. She has one more year to go before that is complete and she was planning on continuing her studies in neurology at a different university. She's actually a double major, her second major being international business. Now, with her father gone and the medical bills, funeral, and other things piling up, her chances of continuing college after this next year are almost non-existant.

My nephew just completed his first year of college and he was planning on studying neurology, as well. He, too, now faces an uphill battle to stay in college but the fact is that, unless someone in the family wins the lottery or something, he will probably have to drop out and get a job to support the family.

Meanwhile, I'm trying to figure out how I can help them. I have my own family to worry about so I can't take out a second mortgage to finance my niece and nephew through college as I'll probably be doing that in a few years when my children are ready for college. My other brothers and sisters are stressed out in their own financial situations so I cannot rely on them for help, neither.

Can anyone give me some ideas about what we can do to keep these two in college? Any help will be appreciated.

other than them getting loans themselves i don't see many options, lots of ppl i know got loans, when they were in college.
also since their father died, that changes their household income, what about them getting financial aid??? let them speak to the financial aid counselor, if there is one in their school.

i wish you and them luck.

Situations like this suck.

You can only help as much as you can.

Student loans and financial aid will assist your niece/nephew. For them to finish schools, THEY will have to take on the burden of borrowing. And, they'll have to WORK weekends, evenings..... like many students do. They are adults now.

They can also pick other 'more affordable' options and work their way to that education level.

The only and best way to help with family is to point them in the right direction, provide them with a roof, meals, and possible transportation.

I'm in the middle of a career change. Its no different then being a college student all over again. They should be able to succeed as long as they have a work ethic.

A couple questions:
Nephew: wants to study neurology, what did he do with his 1st year of college? GPA?
Niece: wants to study neurology, what are her double majors? why?

Student loans. It's the American way.

Lots of large companies offer tuition reimbursement programs. They could get jobs at say Home Depot or FedEx earning some cash with decent benefits while having school paid for. Student loans can be used to get the ball rolling.

Typically the FinAid counselors at the schools they attend will be very helpful in navigating this issue. There are usually some options ranging from grants/scholarships etc and of course loans.

First off, let me extend my condolences on the loss of your brother. I have never experienced the loss of a sibling but I can only imagine the pain. I pray that God will give you and your family the strength to get through these trying times.
Ok back to the kids, as others have stated there has to be some type of financial aid and student loans that they could apply for. I would assume that the college would have some department that should be able to offer them some guidance. I hope that they wouldn't turn their back on them.

One thing you certainly don't want to do is to give them cash at this point. All grants / support help are at least in part based on "cash in the bank", and this will count against them. If you would like to set aside some money for them, consider to setup a bank account in your own name, for each of them, and keep it only in your name. Give them the money from these accounts as you wish.

Depending on their age, I think that they might actually be able to receive some social security from their father's contributions.

I am pretty mixed on college loans, but sometimes it is the only way. As a practical matter, the goal of post grad education is to enhance your ability to make more money faster, not just for education purposes. There are a lot of grads out there with loans and no job, so piling on more debt can actually be counter productive in some cases.

Try hard to not co-sign for them, or you will be on the hook yourself for the full liability if for some reason they cannot repay. This can make it harder for your own children to obtain loans in the future.

Make sure if they do get loans, they are directly from the gov't, not via a bank if at all possible. Gov't loans can sometimes carry forgiveness clauses, depending on what.

There is a good chance that your brother's children need to be invited over for dinner and reinforced as being "family" just as much or more than the financial aspect right now.

Repeating what others have said, go with them to see a financial aid specialist at the University. Universities will usually attempt to help a successful student finish college no matter what. As a practical matter, the tuition from an individual student is a nominal part of the eduction budget at a major university, so they can be pretty flexible with it.

You didn't mention your brother's life insurance, wife's condition, or other assets, but these can be factors in how things are approached.

I worked my way through college, and graduated with only a little debt. One way I did this was that I stretched out college to work some quarters and go to school others. The result was a 4 yr degree in 5 years, but it worked.

My condolences on your brother. It's awful for your neice and nephew to lose a parent under any circumstance, but losing one while they're still dependent is far worse.

There are several options available regarding schooling. For your nephew, he might want to look into a state or local college, assuming that he's now enrolled in a more expensive private college. Sometimes if you're bright you'll be able to obtain enough scholarships and grants to cover tuition at a state college.

Your neice represents a more difficult problem. As far as I know, there are no low-cost graduate programs. The cost of college, especially graduate school, was high back when I was in school in the early 1980s. It's since increased far faster than the rate of inflation. I remember graduate school wasn't really an option for me even though my parents were both able to help somewhat. Even with help, it was cost-prohibitive. Also, scholarships for grad school seem less prevalent.

I personally wouldn't even consider student loans as an option. School is so expensive these days that if you fund it yourself, the payback period, assuming you can even find a higher-paying job as result, is close to infinity. Even back in my time higher education was a questionable investment if you had to foot the entire bill. Besides, student loans never go away short of death or disability. Even if you fail to find work upon graduating, eventually you're expecting to start paying. If you don't, you can suffer legal and other penalties far exceeding the amount of the original loan ( don't ask me how I know this ). I'm still making monthly payments on an $8350 student loan with no end in sight. Unless the laws are changed to allow student loans to be cancelled after a certain time period, I wouldn't recommend student loans at all.

You didn't mention the financial situation of your sister-in-law. Is she working or if not, is she able to work ( both physically and also experience-wise )? If she and your late brother owned a home, does it have equity? What I'm getting at here is what I might do in a similar situation. If my sister lost her husband, I'm sure my mom or my brother ( or me if I had my own place ) would consider letting her and my neice live with them. Would you have room for three more people at your place? Do you get along? It might be the best solution for all concerned. Any equity in your brother's home could help with college for his children ( and also any additional expenses you will incur as a result of having three more people ). Anyway, just an idea. Extended family living arrangements are still common in most of the world. In fact, I dare say the nuclear family is an aberration of a relatively prosperous period, and we'll be seeing more extended families even in the US. Nothing wrong with it, provided you have the space, and everyone gets along. Eventually, your neice and nephew would have their own lives and move out, as would your sister-in-law. It's something to think about if all other options are exhausted.

Again, my condolences. This sounds like an awful situation to be in.

Thanks, everyone, for your replies. I need to wait until they're both ready to go back to college to have a heart-to-heart with them. The last time I spoke with my niece she sounded like she was ready to give it all up and find a job to help her mom, but, she's also distraught and not thinking straight so I just need to give her some time.

deadrx7conv said:

A couple questions:
Nephew: wants to study neurology, what did he do with his 1st year of college? GPA?
Niece: wants to study neurology, what are her double majors? why?

Click to expand...

My nephew hasn't really selected a major, he just said that he wanted to study that. Things change and he might change his mind. I don't know what his GPA is. I never asked.
My niece is a double-major in neurology and international business. That's what she told me and she didn't give me a reason for these choices.

WRT to my sister-in-law, they have equity in the house but I'm sure that she wouldn't want to lose the house. I know, it's not the smartest thing especially since she hasn't worked a single day since coming to this country some 25 years ago. I think it was mentioned that she is now looking for work. They still owe money on the mortgage but it should be mostly paid off by now. She cannot move in with me as she doesn't exactly get along with my wife in the best of situations. My wife is understanding of her situation right now but I don't believe that she would allow her to move in. My brother had a few things that they can sell (he was a truck driver and owned two or three trucks) but that money will only go so far. I guess we just need to wait and see what happens next.

My first thought immediately goes to what they plan to do with the neurology degrees. If the ultimate goal is to be a doctor and med school is in sight, good for them, maxing out in student loans will pay off in the end. If they want to be researchers, I sincerely wish them the best of luck but I'd bet my money on the fact that they will not pursue a career in their field of study, hence making any graduate schooling a waste of money. I don't know the details so I am purely speculating here.

Also, make sure since they are both very talented and bright that they seek out and apply for every scholarship they can find.

I put myself through university completely on my own in 2002-2007 (meaning tuition & etc., as well as all of my living expenses - rent/food/clothing/car/etc.) It actually...wasn't that difficult.

I was also a 'first generation' college graduate - meaning my parent/older siblings had skipped university, so, given the fact I had to research all on my own- and the fact I graduated without any debt, I think I know the system pretty well.

This was only undergraduate though, looking forward - post-grad (masters degree etc.) would be more difficult, I believe. I'll just speak on undergraduate - the next year for your niece, and next 3 for your nephew.

Your niece and nephew are already partially finished with their bachelor's degrees, so this should be somewhat easier. There are 4 things they can do:

1.) Re-calculate their financial aide eligibility. If they're not up researching how this system works themselves - have them talk to a financial aide counselor at their school(s). They are quite possibly eligible for grants (free money) now. They may even be eligible in retrospect for last year's federal pell grant, since their financial situation has changed.

The thing to do though - would be to lie if necessary and say they don't have any savings/nor does their surviving parent. The government formulas expect one to exhaust literally all of their savings before receiving any grants. My mother had none, but I did have some savings from working in high school - I declined to include it on the form. Searching bank accounts to nail financial aide recipient students - is not a popular thing to do. I'm not certain it's even done at all. I could have been safe and kept the money in someone else's account, but it didn't seem necessary.

2.) Have a part-time job. If they don't already. There are likely work-study jobs (easy jobs) offered/organized by their university. Some of the more difficult ones (tutor children, etc.) paid $10/hour at my university in the aforementioned time period.

3.) Apply for scholarships. Actually I went through school debt-free on a combination of scholarships and grants. I also didn't work for...well over half of my ~4.5 years there. Particularily - apply for scholarhips with limited application pools (e.g. - only open to students of their state, or their university/department, etc.) National scholarships seem near impossible, in my mind. Especially if one isn't majoring in compositions (for composing their essays that usually go with the application process).

4.) Get subsidized governmental loans. This is the measure of last resort, but it's a very good fallback. They don't have to start paying the loans off until I believe - 6 months after graduation. And I believe extensions can be given after that if requested. In addition, the interest rates are quite low, and the application process very easy.

Dropping out is retarded, and should not be considered an option. People put themselves through university all the damn time. ALL the damn time. Your niece and nephew already have a 3 and 1 year head start, respectively. Easy. : )

Questions:
You say your nephew may have to drop out to 'support the family'. What does this mean? His mother literally cannot support herself? Regardless, again - he shouldn't view dropping out an option. Talk about long term pain for short-term gain. I'm certain his mother can in some way, avoid starvation or death via other means, which would be the only valid reason for him to drop out.

Are your niece and nephew attending a public in-state university, public out-of-state university, or a private university?

Some great advice here.

My niece is attending University of Chicago and my nephew is in one of the UCs. UoC is a private university. The UC is a public in-state university.

I mentioned earlier that my S-I-L hasn't worked a day in her life. I don't think, with the current economic situation, that she would be able to find a job. It doesn't help that she doesn't really speak English. My brother bought a house in a nicer part of the San Francisco Bay Area and it is far away from the places that she would be able to find work and the work she could find probably would not pay enough to support the remaining house payments and food. I think my oldest brother has a family meeting planned to discuss these details further and I don't know everything that they have or do not have going so most of this is only a guess at this point. I can see her renting the house out to cover the mortgage, moving in with one of my other brothers until that house is paid off, and finding some minimum wage work to pay for whatever remaining bills she has. I think she would be too proud to do it, though, probably risking having the house foreclosed on before doing any of that.

OK, then it really doesn't sound like your sister-in-law can provide any meaningful support. In this economy people with years of good work experience are working in fast food places, if they can even find work. Someone who can't speak English well, and hasn't worked at all, likely couldn't even find a minimum wage job.

What this means then is one way or another, her and your niece and nephew will have to leave the house unless your late brother had a huge life insurance policy. The income just isn't there to remain in the house. Perhaps the house can be rented to more or less cover the mortgage until it's paid off, or just outright sold.

And I second what mmace1 said about your niece and nephew not dropping out of school. While I think far too many people go to college who really shouldn't ( and this has diluted the value of a college degree ), it seems in this case both are college material. Also, nowadays at least a bachelor's degree is needed to get any kind of reasonable work which stands a chance of providing a living wage. No matter what happens, please make sure both at least obtain their bachelor's degree. In the long run, dropping out to help the family might be noble, but it'll hurt in the long run in terms of lower income for life, and/or perhaps being stuck with lengthy periods of unemployment. A degree doesn't guarantee anything, of course, but it may help to get your foot in the door.

OK, well view the mother's finances, and the children's education -as completely separate. It sucks if she can't provide for them at all. However, they in no way should be providing for her at the expense of their education. For someone living in the US - that's honestly disgusting.

You have advice on the children's education. For the mother...I don't have any particular knowledge.

The private university will be expensive (~$40,000 for her last year in tuition alone). Fortunately it's only one more year, so it probably doesn't make sense for her to transfer (if that's would even be possible, I'm unclear). She may want to look into a public graduate school as opposed to private. However - in state/out of state prices for grad school (unlike undergrad) are actually quite similar in price, so she could go anywhere geographically.

The UC is much less (you can check online easily, but something like $8,000/year or less in tuition, I would guess offhand). Since he's already in an in-state public school "transferring to a less expensive university" is not possible. So - he stays in this school and graduates. End of story.

Keep in mind that she had received a full scholarship and has one more year before that is done. After that she probably will move back home and try to go to school locally. I don't think my nephew received any grants or scholarships, though, so it's all coming out of pocket.

Oh right - I missed that about her scholarship. Sounds like a great plan for her then.

Well - next "cycle" he can apply for scholarships. At least at my school/state - most scholarships had deadlines from around Jan-Mar. I'd highly suggest targeting state-only, school-only, department-only, etc. scholarships, and just plain ignore the national ones (too much competition).

He could get government subsidized loans right away. Governmental grants - possibly, if he qualifies. Though now that I think of it - the equity his mother has in her house, may disqualify him on that point (and be difficult to hide).

To be more specific now: if he hasn't, submitting his FAFSA, or - updating it to reflect the now greater need. Is a must-do right now. Most scholarships, and all governmental loans/grants require one to have completed a FAFSA. If he's never done it before - it's free to do, and one can submit online (though he may have to mail in a signature page, if the system is the same as before). Or - if he prefers - he can work through it with the school's financial aide counselors.

This is a tough situation. I wish you all well.

I'm a professor, and my wife is director of business affairs on our campus. Let me take a shot at this.

First, deal with the emotional impact. I've seen far too many students try to ignore it--and end up failing. Use your judgement and relationship with them. Most universities will let students withdraw for a time with no penalty to deal with emergencies. That's a last resort since lots of students never return--but know it exists. I've recommended it a few times.

Second, financial stuff. I suggest starting with the premise that dropping out is not an option. Recalculate all financial options, as suggested. The lack of income may help. Fill out the FASBA thing also. Talk to the financial aid officers on each campus. Those things have all been suggested and are very accurate.

Next, have each student talk to their advisors and/or business affairs offices (only talk to business affairs if necessary). There are often scholarships and funds set up to help in emergency situations like this. Here, we have at least two. As I understand, one is privately funded, but the other is funded from faculty/staff donations. The advisor (academic advisor) may be aware of things like this. If not, the business affairs / financial aid offices can help. These are often short-term stopgap measures, but could help. It never hurts to ask. The advisors might know of other approaches also. For some reason students are often shy about bringing things like this up with their advisors. I understand that--but sometimes we can actually help. Urge them to try. Their advisors might even know of part-time jobs that will help with finances and provide experience.

For the niece, encourage her to explore graduate options NOW. Her academic advisor may have ideas. Don't wait--start as soon as possible. If she's interested in becoming a doctor, note that lots of hospitals / clinics will repay student loans for doctors that work for them for a given number of years. That's a great option.

For the nephew--can he attend a college near home? He could live at home, working part time to help with bills.

Loans are not the end of the world. We take out loans for houses and cars, right?

Isn't a dream worth more than a car?

prof