Anyone else interested in better flashlight standards?

Are there any other people, who liked to have more and better flashlight standards like P60? The idea of a standard like P60 is SUCH a win for all of us, but the problem of P60 is well known: First, P60 differs slightly from manufacturer to manufacturer (because it's no real standard, just a de-facto standard), second P60 is absolutely not optimized for heat-transfer.

We here could raise a much better standard, if there is interest! First of all for drop-ins, but also for all other components, if we want.

I'd suggest the following procedure:

1.) Find enough people here who generally declare their interest to buy products with such standards.

2.) Work out the technical standard together in a expert team. This team is free for all, and its work must be transparent for all.

3.) Publish the standard by directly addressing to the manufacturers.

4.) Wait for products and buy

Thats an excellent idea

Good idea.
Let me see what I can do.

It's a great idea.
But before to have more and better flashlight standards, I would prefer that manufacturers make P60/D26 as a real standard.
A better UI design for multimode modules, to get rid of those UIs that cycle through different modes.
A pill with (standard) threads to screw it down to the host would be better to improve heatsink. Or threads on the lengh of the reflector. It's a shame to not use all this thermal transfer area while a pill is attached to it.

Tally-ho said:

It's a great idea.
But before to have more and better flashlight standards, I would prefer that manufacturers make P60/D26 as a real standard.
A better UI design for multimode modules, to get rid of those UIs that cycle through different modes.
A pill with (standard) threads to screw it down to the host would be better to improve heatsink. Or threads on the lengh of the reflector. It's a shame to not use all this thermal transfer area while a pill is attached to it.

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My idea is, to providing a "head" instead of a dropin,
the head can include some special UI such as the single finger control ring of my design - Legion II. Or just keep the simple mode like most lights.
Such a head, can be removed or installed into any standard tube,to get power supply.

As far as I'm aware, the P60 dropins and hosts were never intended to be a standard in flashlights other than one of the Surefire serieses. They were imitated by a lot of other companies rather than collaborating with them.

I can't really see a bunch of manufacturers being willing to do this, but it would be nice if they did. I just think most manufacturers would rather produce things only their own spares and upgrades will fit. Not that I'm any kind of expert in this area.

I don't see this becoming a reality, because it places restrictions on the manufacturers.

Looking at it from the point of view of the manufacturers (devils' advocate), Why would the designer / manufacturer partake in a program that limits their design flexibility, and results in a design thats just like everyone else?

I think this would be more attractive to the CPF custom builders though, but not the big store manufacturers.

kramer5150 said:

I don't see this becoming a reality, because it places restrictions on the manufacturers.

Looking at it from the point of view of the manufacturers (devils' advocate), Why would the designer / manufacturer partake in a program that limits their design flexibility, and results in a design thats just like everyone else?

I think this would be more attractive to the CPF custom builders though, but not the big store manufacturers.

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One reason is, selling parts is profitable.
So, there are so many brands their parts can't be LEGOed.
In my idea, the creative designs won't be limited by the screw threads.

We have a very awesome (IMHO) standard right now, which is that very many parts are currently being made based around the Surefire E-series, C-series, and M-series threading. While light engines are a hit or a miss, the parts tend to work quite well.

Surefire, McGizmo, Leef, FiveMega, and Valiant Concepts all offer parts that work with each other, based around Surefire's thread system. There are more, of course, but these are the ones off the top of my head.

Maybe that would be a good idea in the former Soviet Union.....Personally I like the freedom to choose from 100's of different lights. Let the market winners prevail. Why stop all inovation and pin everybody down to a "Standard" build profile. Manufacturers will never go for it. The ones that do will be clobbered by those who innovate. This is the free market, winners prevail. Enjoy it. If you want a "cookie cutter" light like everybody else, then buy yourself a 6P with a P60 and live happily ever after in 200 lumenland.

How about a mimimum 80 CRI standard?

Oops, that would eliminate 95% of the lights on the market.

P60 is great for what it's for IMO. to get the most out of hotter running LEDs you need a larger reflector anyway, more thermal mass. More LEGO is always better.

I would really like a new CRI standard thats based off the sun instead of a tungsten filament.

neoseikan said:

One reason is, selling parts is profitable.
So, there are so many brands their parts can't be LEGOed.
In my idea, the creative designs won't be limited by the screw threads.

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Its probably profitable on a small scale... selling to a niche market (like CPF). But stocking shelves with lego parts at the B&M retailers has never been proven before. It would be a business risk for the large volume manufacturers... most of which lean towards the conservative side.

I agree with the other member in that the 6P (and its surefire offspring) have managed to evolve into a loosely standardized design.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the idea!!... I'm just saying that for this to really attract participants (manufacturers), there needs to be a more clearly defined financial benefit/gain for them to participate.

its a great idea... Leef and 5-mega products are very popular and continue to be in high demand on the CPF marketplace.

+

This is kinda ironic because just today I swapped out several reflector setups
in a few P60 lights & added better heatsinking...
..switching between OP & SMO, even Parabolic.

Two reasons run of the mill drop-ins are popular
is that you can switch stuff around on the fly and make a 'new' light,
also they're relatively inexpensive.
It doesn't break the bank every time a new bin comes out.

The only host that has issues with the standard P60 drop-in size, is WolfEyes
...everything else usually fits without major problems.

I think there will always be two camps;
your basic style drop-in,
and the well heatsinked, custom type started by Gene M.

kengps said:

Personally I like the freedom to choose from 100's of different lights. Let the market winners prevail. Why stop all inovation and pin everybody down to a "Standard" build profile.

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Well, making 1 or 2 standards beside all other innovations possible is not the same as making all flashlights under only 1 or 2 standards.
You like freedom but you are buying tons of stuff made under one respective standard: CD, DVD, Oil for cars, etc
With D26 modules you have more choice to choose your emitter and reflector or optic from many brands. You said you "like the freedom to choose" ? A standard meams more choice if you "subscribe" to it. Additionally, you do not have to buy a whole flashlight each time.
Actually, a very well made host tends to become obsolete less quickly than an emitter.

What i tried to say is just:

If we find here enough people saying "YES, most probably i would buy products with such a standard, because such a standard makes sense to me", and If we then create such a standard on a well-thought-out technical level, then there will be manufactures that offer products with that standard. It's absolutely no problem for us, that many manufactures will continue building their own very specialiced lights. That's no problem, that's good!!!

Who does agree? (i will make a list)

BruceWillEs said:

If[/SIZE] we then create such a standard on a well-thought-out technical level, then there will be manufactures that offer products with that standard.

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How many D26 modules, all custom builders included, are sold per year ?
Probably not that much compared to a big manufacturer (ie: surefire, solarforce, etc...) and this is for a "standard" that already exists.
Sorry, but a CPF's standard will probably remain a niche standard for a very long time due to the small volume of sells...but it is not impossible to sell to a wider range of users if it is very well designed, but how much does it cost to develop for example a very efficient reflector ? How much for a whole flashlight ? A thrower, a flooder, a keychain EDC ? The more it will be dedicated to one specific use, the more it will remain a niche standard.

I wish someone would make high quality bodies that look dead sexy like Leef used to. :sigh:

Tally-ho said:

Sorry, but a CPF's standard will probably remain a niche standard for a very long time due to the small volume of sells...

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Aren't we a BIG forum, if not the biggest flashlight forum at all? Aren't there thousands of people that are NOT registered here, but reading here? Aren't WE those, who make the reviews, that are found by so many people over Google? And aren't we those, who recommend flashlights to our friends and famalies or not? And last: Aren't WE those, who host private flashlight sites or stores?

Please tell me, if we are all this or not! I really don't know.

But IF we are, and IF we want, THEN we can.

If you where to change the format and/or physical dimensions of the P60, you would have to change the lights that are P60 compatible. To allow more heatsinking would mean more solid brass, making the P60 longer and having it not fit in P60 style lights.

I agree, the P60 is a awful heat sink, but what LED's do you plan on mounting onto a P60 heatsink that would require more heat sinking? The R5 seems to be a perfect candidate for the P60. A P7 or SST-50 just seems silly to me as it would just eat up the battery.

P60's are generally in hosts that take 18650 batteries. And the LED's that are mounted on P60's are generally low power consuming, making it perfect for a 18650 cell. Any LED that is a power hog would just eat up the battery. And any LED that needs more heat sinking IS a power hog, and would render as being impractical because of the short runtime.

IMHO, having any LED more powerful than a R5 is not practice. An R5 P60 single 18650 torch is the PERFECT EDC.



I think that instead of changing the P60, maybe making a new class and calling it something different. This new class of drop in would be wider, have a larger reflector, and would be deeper to allow for more heat sinking.